So, this was a really hard thing for my BS - to start to process the emotional side of my A. This morning she messaged me while I was at work and asked me which items from the list I identified with - I told her the list above. Then she asked if I could elaborate on a couple. She wanted me to elaborate on fantasies - and that one seemed to make sense. Then she wanted me to elaborate on Need to Talk. So I explained 'One of my lies I told myself was that it was hard to get you to listen to me. Or in some cases impossible. ' Then further 'Since I believed it was hard or impossible to get u to listen to me - I had a sense of not being able to talk to you - but I like to talk. So I would talk to her and she would most often answer.'
The subject sorta dropped there. About two hours later, I get a text message from my AP. Out of the blue. I have had no contact since DDay (September 2012) and all of a sudden she messages me. I immediately call my BS and tell her the content of the messages. Now, we are both at work, and she has a client there and its about half hour before she has to start working with this client.
This doesn't go well at all. I know how super hard it had to be for her to hear that the AP had messaged me, and I know the timing sucked, but I couldn't put off telling her something like that. I have NO desire to hide anything nor do I want anything to do with my AP. I am trying desperately to R with my wife.
She gets very hurt and angry by the whole contact, under stably. Later she tells me that my response above to the question of elaborating on the 'Need to talk' question was haunting her. That she read blameshifting and justifications like crazy in my answer. I am trying to understand why she said that. She isn't speaking to me since about 2:30 when she texted me she was DONE.
Please feel free to 2x4 the shit out of me here. I want to learn and understand. I have no desire to blameshift or justify anything. I know the blame is all mine and that there is no justification for any part of an affair. I am absolutely sick at how today went and I hate how much this has to have hurt her. I have no desire to believe any of the lies I have told myself through the years or have any part of wayward thinking so please point it out to me.
Trying wicked hard - never giving up.
Maybe I have to read back through, but I don't see what you need a 2x4 for.
You are being honest and forthcoming when she asks questions. You told her IMMEDIATELY when your AP tried to contact you.
While the events themselves caused a lot of triggers and pain, you are building a foundation of trust.
I remember when FWH would remember something new and come to me with it, there was a time where I'd be like, "That's it. I really hate you. I'm so over this."
But then I'd cool off, and try to live my life, and in the back of my head I honestly felt a scrap more reassurance that something was volunteered to me.
That's what's really going to matter as time passes.
So you're both going to have REALLY hard days - it ain't over yet. Keep treating her as a team member and honoring her requests for information, and that actually will build trust back up in the long run.
For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot
We were officially in R and we went back to limbo on Saturday. I try to be forthcoming, but I have a tendency to get defensive sometimes. So BS has a hair trigger for anything she remotely sees as justifying, or defensiveness, or blame shifting.
If she felt like she read something that felt like that in my elaboration of what I meant by 'need to talk', then something in there set her off. I was hoping someone could shed some light.
It doesn't help that the AP forwarded her any emails she had from me last Friday, and my BS read things in there that I have not told her, so we are not in a good place to start with. I'm not intentionally holding anything back. I keep wracking my brain for any little new detail I am holding onto. I long for the moment when I can tell her I need to tell her something I remembered. It is so hard for me to dig this stuff up.
I really am trying to do this right. My goals in IC are to really dig into the past and uncover all the roots of this because I want to be able to spot this a hell of a long way off should any of this ever threaten to creep back in. I don't ever want to be here again.
Try not to beat yourself up too much. That's different than remorse. Sometimes we think that feeling badly is some form of apology, but it's not. It's a different form of selfishness.
Every time you make a step in the right direction, it's ok to take a second and be proud of what you did. That's how you're going to feel good about doing it again and again.
It took me a long time to really and truly realize that WS's can't just flip a lightswitch for some really deeply ingrained behaviors.( That doesn't mean you EVER get to use that as an excuse.) Everything you do is because you made the choice to do it.
It's a GOOD thing to want to do the right thing. Keep hacking away at it, and holding your BW and telling her that you are committed to giving her absolutely everything she needs.
ETA - Bandaid ripping steps/examples -
1. "Remember how I said we used protection? Well, we didn't. It's the most awful and disgusting thing to have to think about and admit. I'm so very sorry."
2. "Remember how I said I never bought her a gift? I bought her flowers, jewelry, and a CD."
3. "I said it was only twice. That was a lie. It was at least twenty times."
The truth is oftentimes horrific, but lying about it is the only thing that's worse.
Then you let her have her reaction, which could last days or months but she deserves to have those feelings. She needs to have all the information she's asking for so she can know what her reality is. Give her the freedom to know and to process.
[This message edited by Jrazz at 6:26 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]
sodamnsorry, when you told your BW:
So I explained 'One of my lies I told myself was that it was hard to get you to listen to me. Or in some cases impossible. ' Then further 'Since I believed it was hard or impossible to get u to listen to me - I had a sense of not being able to talk to you - but I like to talk. So I would talk to her and she would most often answer.'
You were on the right track. You said what you were thinking THEN. But you needed to add "That is what I told myself THEN to justify my behavior". Then you needed to tell her WHY you lied to yourself to justify such destructive behavior. Because in reality, you could have chosen to talk with your BW. The question begged is why didn't you? Why was that choice so unappealing?
Because you didn't follow through with the whole WHY, it really just feels like blameshifting your A on to your BS.
Another big issue: Why now? Why is your AP sending emails to your BW now? What is the motive? Why did she wait 9 months?
It would be very reasonable for your BW to assume that you have been back in contact with your AP and now your AP is intentionally trying to drive a wedge between you and your BW.
You need to address this with your BW. Figure it out. Talk it out without getting defensive.
Just a question..How is it that your AP can still text you?
Do you have NC or not?
PA that lasted approx. 2 weeks. OW was a younger but totally screwed up %#@%!
Searchingforhope - I have had NC at all since DDay with my AP. She has not attempted contact with me during that time - until today. She has talked to my wife quite a bit during the last six months.
Jrazz - the key was the part where I said "So i would talk to her and she would most often answer". That part really bothered her to the point of her asking me what the point of telling her that was.
Sorry is right. Are you NC or not.
Aside from that, good job at being honest. As a BS we just want the truth. Give your W the truth with a honest explanation of how and why you were feeling at the time. We BS only want honesty.
It's time to close the door on this OW, completely and forever.
And why is your AP texting you 9 mos later?
It seems to me that you and your AP are ganging up on your BW and TTing her to death.
ALL the info should have been given to your BW shortly after Dday.
You are going to destroy your BW if you and your AP continue to TT her.
She has routinely needed to verify info, and even dig for further info, when I was deliberately holding things back
Why in the world does your BS think that the ap is trustworthy enough to be a source of information? Something is off about this.
That which we call failure is not the falling down, but the staying down.
I was deliberately holding things back.
while I would love to have the OW completely NC with both of us, that decision really needs to depend on my wife's comfort level and happen in her time.
So. When are you going to start being honest?
"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."
Definitely your BS should not be giving so much time, energy, and attention to the OW. However, I don't see how *you* can tell her that. It's not your call, as you say, and frankly if my fWH had said that to me, I would have assumed he was hiding something more and was lying to me again. That would have been a nail in the coffin for our marriage, no doubt about it.
Could you tell her about SI? as a place that is helping you learn, and that has a great community to support her? She could read around for awhile to see how she feels about it.
Re OW's texts -- are you getting them on your work email? I can't block incoming mail from anyone on my work email, but I can filter it into a separate folder so that I do not see it as it comes in. See if that would be helpful to your BS. You could also offer to set it up so that anything from the OW is immediately forwarded to your BS. Maybe the two of you set up a separate account to collect these messages??
You could tell her that's a suggestion from a BW.
Good luck to you. You sound like you are trying to get onto and stay on the right path. Hard work! Wish my fWH had been as self-aware and willing early on.
And...apologize for causing her pain, and for putting her in the position where she has to ask these questions. (Just "I'm sorry" never cut it for me -- what are you sorry *for*? show that you are thinking about her and her feelings).
When she says you're blame shifting and justifying, tell her yes, that's what I did. I see it different now. You don't have to justify/explain your thought processes at the time (it really hurts to hear that) just show her you're different now.
FWIW, once I felt confident that my H loves me, is committed to R, and doesn't give a shit about her, I got a kick out of her trying to contact him. I enjoyed her heart being so broken, so long after DDay. I didn't have to fantacise about sweet revenge. She bought it all on herself. Just sayin'