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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, July 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest -
The disturbing part about it - is I am SURE the ex would say its all BS- she didnt do anything wrong, etc.

When I was in my deep investigating phase, I told him about the past charges (which were pretty serious - but dropped) and he backed her 100%.

They are so delusional in so many ways.

EDITED TO ADD: I agree with Miracle 100%

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 11:15 PM, July 5th (Friday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, July 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But what papers??? Separation agreement or a post nup?

Post nup because it would give me time, before I have to deal with NPD rage

or separation agreement and really start the fight?


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest: i am not a lawyer as you well know....so here goes just my 'opinion'

first off you could go about this in several different ways...

try doing a post nup, if he doesn't agree go straight for the separation papers

or

just do the separation papers...

if you can get him to sign a post nup, then go for it....but i would think that it would have to be worded very carefully because you would be filing a post nup which usually means the marriage will remain intact....

the issue with that is that he will still torture you imo, telling you that he signed your papers, now you need to let it up and let it go....

i love the separation agreement, though, it is geared toward a future dicorce...

so i guess bottom line for me would be get whatever you can, starting from the lowest fight inducing document....and if it doesnt work maybe threaten him with divorce papers...but do not threaten without the FOLLOW THRU.....

and the other part of that bottom line, don't wasted another day biding your time.....your time is now, or it should be.....biding your time and lining up your ducks is not worth your sanity which i fear is bordering....


(((honest)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle: Yes, my sanity is bordering very closely right now.
Extremely.

Do you know how many time the IC has said to me these past few years if I wanted to go in a hospital.... meaning to sign myself in?
Scary shit.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:44 AM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest. No post nup. Divorce him. Who cares if she won? He's pig shit. Yea! Lucky her! She won pig shit. To you he's a nasty mean lying asshole paycheck and to her he's a nasty mean lying asshole paycheck who can get her American citizenship. She's more motivated than you are. Accept it, award her the pig shit she's earned and move on. Go 100% NC. Your kids are old enough to communicate with him without you if they choose.

So, thats my 2 cents. Yeah, you'll be broke. It won't last forever.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok - here's the deal with the 3 options being thrown around here in NY:

Post nup: typically used for marriages that are going to remain intact, but could be used for shakier marriages, where a physical separation of households,for example, is not actually going to happen.

Separation AGreement: the parties must agree upon all the terms that would otherwise be decided if you got a divorce. People sometimes choose this if they are not emotionally ready to divoce or if going through with a divorce will cut off their medical benefits, etc. So all the issues of money loaned, homes encumbered by mortgages, property overseas - all of that wouldbe in there.

Divorce: I think you guys pretty much have a handle on this.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest, I agree that D will probably be a great big PITA, place you into uncomfortable economic hardship, and be physically and emotionally draining. The thing is, not D-ing will be a life of emotionally and physically draining drama followed by eventual economic hardship and whatever PITA(s) NPD triggers in the future.

I get there may be no money, at least not identifiable. I also believe that if Mr. Heart-Not-Healthy NPD dies before you there may be no money or even will providing for you or DS. I know business is business, and he could loose whatver he does have. Staying M to Mr. NPD is only a day to day solution to economics.

In the interim, while you remained legally M, can you take a stronger course in avoiding and ignoring Mr. NPD? I am asking, not suggesting this as I do not know enough details, but what if you just quit engaging him? He gets entrance to your house because he is your H, what similar actions can you take in his life because legally you are his W? Can you demand a certified audit of accounts before signing a tax return? Does money flow through you for mortgage, and maintenance payments for the house? Could you hold that and not make payments putting him and you into default and eventually recevership where others would have an interest in helping to find his financial resources? Can you protest your H spending your resources to transport and care for OW and OC in the US, say with thye US based credit card he must use for that?

Just ideas to try and shift the dynamic.

Hi allgoodnames, always good to hear from you, and glad to hear about the karma mini bus.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood: There would really be no separation of household assets because there are none, and plus he couldn't or wouldn't bother trying to ship or sell any beat up furniture (including my uncle's bedroom set from the 1930's (beat up))
It's just the house itself, and the money owed me and CS and maintainance.

Ats: Thank you for the ideas. Don't know if I could use any, but I should see.

I keep thinking about thing people have said to me, especially my neighbor saying "you are letting him do this to you...WHY??"

WHY, indeed.

I think that's the crucial question and I have to dig down and find the answer to that.

Why can't I let go emotionally? Why do I "allow" this emotional abuse? Why can't I detach enough to save my life?
I guess I don't want to see reality, but can't avoid it now.

I'm feeling like I did when xWH#1 was going to leave and then left. So powerless, so abandoned. It's really DDAY.

I can't sleep, can't eat. Heart is racing like crazy. All the old methods don't work. It's because I am not doing anything, and not sure what the best course of action is. But action I must take before I have a heart attack myself.

Sorry, for all the vents and raves. I feel like I should be in JFO forum the way I've been feeling.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

damn honest...i wish i could step into your body for just a little while....

the things i would like to say your ws...

ok, hon....buckle up its time for you to finally get on the train goin far far away from him emotionally....

get the papers in order asap, detach and 180 his ass, start out with the separation papers....your older boys will make sure you will be fine.....rest assured of it...you will land on your feet in dancin position....

you are not goin to get a miracle any more then i did, and at this point the miracle you need is for him to just disappear...your marriage is done....like dr phil says all the time...the only thing worse then living the way you have been living for the last 4 years is to live that way 4 years and another day, and so on and so forth....

YOU CAN DO THIS, and YOU MUST DO THIS....

think about it dear heart, we ALL SEE what you must and need to do, the only person who sees things his way is him....and him alone...!!!!so use that to keep you in the mindset, use that to KNOW you are right, just and completely SANE.....

staying in your sich any longer then you already have is what would border on the insane....

kick his ass to the curb....your house is just a house....and if i remember correctly there is no equity in it...so basically its just a place to live.....there is no loss to you....

and for you and i dear heart, the only loss we have and had is what WE THOUGHT WE HAD BUT NEVER DID!!!!

so many others here had real marriages before, you and i never did...remember that...you cant' really lose what you never had.....thoughts are powerful, its time to turn those thoughts towards your new goals and dreams....

the dream of what it could have been is fruitless, the only way out is forward....and you NEED to get OUT!!! for your own peace of mind which you don't have right now!!! if you had peace of mind and heart you wouldn't be hurting as much and in such a panic....

you could figure out the why later...you need to do now!!!time in not on your side anymore.... get whatever ducks you have and go!!!

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 1:06 PM, July 6th (Saturday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{honest}} some day, some way may you find peace!

Miracle.. party, party, party! Good for you to be able to step back and see your situation for what it is. Perspctive, we should all have proper perspective!

Allgood.. great to see your post. I bet the OW feels she was treated unfairly. Maybe the Karma minimavn will make many return trips!

7years.. take care of that alergy! Wash thoroughly, avoid contact, repeat!

it's time to get off the crazy train.

"You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave" - the Eagles, Hotel California

So true. I can make so many good choices (or even bad choices) and stbxww A and all of its tentacles hang around in some form. I had a good 4th: baseball, hot dogs and apple pie. Outdoor concert Friday and nice dinner with DS on Saturday. Relaxing and enjoying the four day weekend.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't thank everyone enough. I'm sorry I've taken up the boards like this.

I bet if all of us here could sit him down and tell him how far off he is, he would still say he was right and ALL of us are crazy.
from Dip

In a stupid way, that's almost what I'm doing. I am crazy. It is insane what I've been trying to do.

[ we ALL SEE what you must and need to do, the only person who sees things his way is him....and him alone...!!!!so use that to keep you in the mindset, use that to KNOW you are right, just and completely SANE...../quote]

staying in your sich any longer then you already have is what would border on the insane.... from Miracle


I'm probably the one who is insane staying in this sitch.
Trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.

I also keep thinking of what Ats said, "You can't NICE yourself back into a marriage"

Ats also said I have to try something different.

I have to do what 7yrs said, DETACH and 180. And that IS starting today.

NPD chose them. Sure he wants me on the side. Who wouldn't want someone else to kiss his ass and do his bidding? He hoovers and gives me enough to suck me back in.

Crumbs from even the best cake in the world and one you may love is not enough to survive on. It's a slow, painful and tortuous death.

I'm better off eating salad that I grew in my own garden and it would be healthier.

Ats: I love your Yahtzee cup analogy, except in my case, the Yahtzee cup yells at me for asking it to give me something.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 9:11 AM, July 7th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know what happened to all the quote boxes above, tried to edit and just made a mess!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest-It looks fine!
don't worry about the quotes ( I don't know how to do that either! LOL).
Just keep posting and reading.
You can do this.
You are stronger than you think.
Do it for your DS-both the older two and especially the younger two.
They need and want a healthy mom.
End this once and for all.
For whatever reason the NPD does not want to officially divorce you. It is most likely only because he has something to gain from this arrangement.

It has nothing to do with what is best for you or your boys.

He has hidden all of his assets and he will continue to do so. There will be nothing to show in term of a post-nup or separation agreement.
He has never shown himself to be a fair person or a kind or considerate one.
And he will not be nice during a divorce. But, what else is new?

Imagine how peaceful your life will be without worrying about him, the OW, the OC coming into your life and inflicting more pain?

No contact= no new hurts.


This situation will never lead to anything but more heartbreak for you.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest - just wanted to lend u some support on the 180. Hope u r really doing it. I know its hard & u probably wont be all that consistent with it at first, but just keep at it.

Sometimes u just need to take a leap of faith and know that it cant possible be worse...

((Honest))


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood and NJgal: thank you so much.
Yes, he's getting something from all this, of course he is. He looks good that he's still taking care of Honest and his sons. He still gets Honest to take care of him and give him his NPD kibbles.

But more important what is wrong with Honest? Why won't Honest let go?

Maybe because I know that it never really ends. I still hear the older DS's talk about their father (WH #1) and his wife and his brothers and sisters... the family that I lost. I still hear about what wh#1 is doing etc. aftere 25 years, it still stings. My older ds's try not to mention him, but sometimes in certain conversations, it comes up. Lately, the older ds's are trying resolve certain issues and we are talking like adults, but it still stings. I t still hurts to a degree. I still had to deal with xwh#1`for years while the older ds's were growing up.

So, why is Honest hesitating about D? Because I know that although maybe I may not be dealing with him day to day, which in essence, I am not, I will still have to deal with him in one way or another for the rest of my life because of the Ds's. I still have to deal with what's going on no matter what.

I know what's on the other side of D. I didn't know if that was better or what I was going through right now.

It's Catch-22. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I know I have I have to decide what's best. But I keep getting confused.

I guess I'm still living in denial. I don't want to accept what is reality.

Also, his "hoovering" doesn't help.

*****************************

I really wanted to add, I'm sorry I've taken up so much on the boards lately. Please, please don't hesitate to post something that you need to be addressed.
We are all here to help one another. If I can help anyone anyway, I want to.

You have all given so much to me. You have all saved my life.

I have realized that I seem to go through these "crisis" and ask so much of you all and then go back for more abuse from NPD.

OK, what is it? Maybe I don't want to accept that he is really horrible? Maybe I want to believe he is a guy who has problems and is really a good guy inside and all the things he says are true? Maybe I want to believe the closeness I feel when I believe he's being "real" is true?

Maybe what xWH#1 told my friend that Honest doesn't want to be alone and I laughed because I was always alone since he was always out drinking and playing softball, but deep down I felt he was my rock, my anchor, was there for me????

Sorry for the ramble, but I decided to do so. I know that when I have read other've rambles it has helped me to some degree.

LOL, believe it or not, a lot of advice I've been given here has been in my head. I still think of Dip when I see BBQ's or people grill, I think of Laura when I see butterflies of ducks (the Fucking ducks ), I "hear" Ats saying "you can't "nice" yourself back into a marriage", I hear NJgal's wonderful supportive advice, Miracle's wonderful support, Nell's sense of humor, the wonderful support and strenght from H&C, MCJack, and 7yrs, completely understanding and feeling like I'm reading my own posts from DH, the kindness from Fnf and UKgirl, the admiration I feel from Allgood strength and compassion, I'm in awe of all that M3 has gone through and keeps going, Trust's wonderful sense of helping others although she is going through so very much, Tryn's wonderful advice, Ats who has gone through such a long journey of self discovery and is such an inspiration of how to keep trying to better oneself and to be there for their spouse and has become a wealth of knowledge and understanding.

I know I'm forgetting a lot of people, and please forgive me. It's late, and yes I've had a few glasses of wine I do admit I tend to get "mushy", but I really am inside

I have been blessed in that I've had a few g2g with some wonderful people on LTA IRL. It has been a godsend.

One thing I have seen from meeting some of these outstanding people IRL, is What the Hell is wrong with the WS?????

These people I have met IRL are beautiful inside and OUT. They are literally beautiful,wonderful and compassionate people.

Physically, they are really and truly beautiful, but inside they are even more so. They are fantastic.

The WS are the ones who have something wrong with them that they don't appreciate how wonderful the BS's are!!!!!


I love you all. God bless you all.

Now, I have to really understand and accept that the man I love does not really exist. It's the man that he projects and his actions show something else and everyone sees it but me.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:18 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I want to believe the closeness I feel when I believe he's being "real" is true?

Honest, there is no secret inner NPD. I read something once that empathetic women tend to assign (abscribe? Is that a word?) these NPD people some level of depth that they simply don't have.

There's no 'there' there.

I don't know that they're all malignantly awful -- I think that many of them are just overgrown preschoolers. Problem is, you give a preschooler a wad of cash, some car keys and a sex drive and... well, no good can come from that.

If you take a very close look at NPD and yourself, you'll notice that his manipulation isn't even subtle or unpredictable. It's more like "usually I push button A, and then B if A doesn't work..."

The real question for you is: what is the payoff here? Is it the drama? Is it that you don't have to work? Seriously. Go back to some IC and really nail it down. Figuring out the mental/physical/emotional payoff to you from remaining in your situation will help you figure out what to do. Personally, I'd guess that you feed off the drama and chaos because it reminds you of your mom. But that's just me.

We really do care about you. Do something nice for yourself today.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read something once that empathetic women tend to assign (abscribe? Is that a word?) these NPD people some level of depth that they simply don't have.
^^^This is so true! It took me the longest time to figure out that taking my STBXWW at face value was the best thing I could do for myself. I stopped thinking she could be better, I stopped hoping for change, I accepted what was right in front of me at face value and made my decisions based on that. There was post in the Wayard forum by uncertainone about locking moments in place or something like that. I made it out by mentally locking her ass in carbonite right beside Han Solo in my head. I flash froze who she really was not who I thought she was. When I was 180ing and she was trying to hoover, do something nice or, try to talk to me I mentally thought about who she actually was not who I thought she was and proceeded accordingly. It didn't matter what changes she made or what I thought she might be all that mattered was who she actually was.

Keep posting honest and keep working at that 180. One ignored greeting, one ignore text, one ignored phone call at a time, one ignored interaction.

please don't hesitate to post something that you need to be addressed.
We are all here to help one another. If I can help anyone anyway, I want to.
On this note, maybe not exactly what you were reffering to but I was over my new friends house yesterday (things are going at a snails pace on purpose) and discovered that I actually like wine. Being a beer and liquor drinker this was news to me. So if anyone has suggestions on wine, I am open. I know I will butcher the names but so far I like Moscato and the other was type of Reisling. Don't laugh but 7yrs assumed all wine was bitter and swore it off in college. I finally understand why the wine tastings in my area are always PACKED. Yay to new experiences.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:11 AM, July 8th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...but so far I like Moscato and the other was type of Reisling

Ahhhh, the pre-red neophyte stage of wine tasting.

Barefoot is a pretty good and cost effective Moscato.

A standard goto for us is Freixenet Cordon Negro sparkling. It is easily identified by the black bottle, and is widely available. Any price under $9 is pretty good, and we find in under $8 around holidays. We prefer Brut which is the driest (least sweet). An "Extra Dry" sparkling wine is actually a little less dry (sweeter) than a Brut.

Another quick piece of wine advice, espcially for whites; Blue bottles are a universal sign the wine is bleeckkkk. FWW wanted blue bottles for a bottle tree. We tried all types of Rieslings, Moscato, even a vodka and never found anything in a blue bottle to be very good.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ahhhh, the pre-red neophyte stage of wine tasting.

indeed. Thanks for the suggestions and advice! There are wine tastings at some of the museums in my area not to mention the vineyards in the western part of my state. Road trip! Think I will be checking them out with an open mind from now on.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that many of them are just overgrown preschoolers. Problem is, you give a preschooler a wad of cash, some car keys and a sex drive and... well, no good can come from that

Lol M3!! Very well put!!Also preschoolers are very self absorbed and cannot see the consequences of their actions not do they care.

Figuring out the mental/physical/emotional payoff to you from remaining in your situation will help you figure out what to do

Well, maybe I'm used to the chaos because it seems so normal...Maybe because I got nothing from my parents in emotional terms, so the crumbs that NPD gives me to keep me sucked in works like a charm to a starving person. I was promised a whole cake, and then told I had to share that cake. Then that I get half the cake to watching my half being taken from, to just crumbs and being yelled at when I complain about that.

It's the old frog in the boiling water story.

He has never shown himself to be a fair person or a kind or considerate one.

You're right, NJgal. It' all about him. Even my DS18 says NPD doesn't love anyone but himself.


When I was 180ing and she was trying to hoover, do something nice or, try to talk to me I mentally thought about who she actually was not who I thought she was and proceeded accordingly. It didn't matter what changes she made or what I thought she might be all that mattered was who she actually was.

Exactly, 7 yrs. It's what M3 said:

I read something once that empathetic women tend to assign (abscribe? Is that a word?) these NPD people some level of depth that they simply don't have.

I think I tend to do that. I believe most people are basically good inside and it is not being na´ve, just my belief. But, I guess there are people that are just plain selfish, no matter what the reason or excuse is. They'll run ramrod over anyone to get what they want and manipulate and act as though they care because it gets them what they want.

I have to realize that getting what I want doesn't have to be selfish.

No matter what I do, NPD will not change, he will not love me the way I deserve, or anyone deserves to be loved. His friend told me that NPD does not love OW, but feels he likes her. NPD says he loves me, but you don't treat someone you love like this.

I need respect and consideration and I am not getting it and I deserve it as a human being.

7yrs: I've discovered wine too, but I like Pinot Grigio. As Ats said, Barefoot is a decent brand and not too expensive.


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