I'm not here much, but just wanted to pop in and say welcome to this little corner. I think you sound as well as it's possible to sound at this point. And I definitely agree with NJGal, that you can expect to cycle though different stages repeatedly--none of them pleasant, but some of them more cleansing than others (I actually found anger more therapeutic than shock and grief). I think it's pretty common for initial feelings of wanting to save things to change into anger. Mine did for sure, and my first reaction which was to keep the family together changed to waiting to see if he was going to do the work. I was indecisive about staying together for at least 18 months after dday.
My H also had somehow become critical and hard to please during the A. After d-day, when I looked back at things, I was able to see clearly, for the first time, just how critical and hard to please. Somehow I just seemed to have slipped into the role of bending over backwards to try to smooth the waters all the time. And I too did the putting the puzzle pieces together thing for months, which is a process that in my case made me swing wildly between hurt, fury and disbelief at my own blind stupidity.
The thing is that one way or another, it all gets better.
H&C - I'm going to be a voice of caution about dating. I can see all the reasons it would feel good to get that validation right now, but I wouldn't think you're ready for the complications that another person brings. As soon as you add someone else into the mix, you have all their issues and feelings to deal with, and it sounds like you have enough on your plate. I think you're doing the right thing in the way you're going forward, putting your life back together and focusing on the kids and yourself. It's really ok to give into grieving for a while. If two years from now you're still in the same place, that would be problematic, but somehow I really don't think you will be.
TrustGone- Hugs. I wish I could give your H a huge kick in the ass. Hang in there.
And even though H&C has done everything possible to try to keep the marriage together-he cannot reconcile on his own.
The WS has to be very remorseful and very willing to do the hard work of reconciling if there is any chance of saving the marriage.
H&C's wife has shown that she is unwilling to work on the marriage and she shows very little remorse.
So..yes..he needs to move on and focus on himself and his children.
The problem with going on online dating sites at this point is that he is not divorced and not even separated from his wife!
they are still living under one roof.
That will make any kind of dating extremely difficult and awkward.
It will also make things even more confusing and difficult for the children.
Many people who divorce only date on the weekends that their ex spouse has the children.
This way the kids are not worried that every casual date may be a potential new step parent.
So...until that living situation is in place dating would be the wrong thing for his kids.
Also...the majority of mature women on Match.com etc are looking for serious long term relationships so its kind of cruel to date them as 'just friends'?
just my thoughts ....
Walking - anger can be a good thing. And so close to D-day, limbo may be the best that can be expected. Be okay with the holding pattern for a little bit while you process. The a-ha moments will continue for a while. I just had one this week. Listen to NJGal! :)
Trust - you ARE attractive.
((H&C)) - I have to respectfully disagree with tryn's rec to sign up for a dating site. It is putting the cart WAY in front of the horse IMO. Meetup might not be a bad idea for you, though. Hanging out with new people with similar hobbies and interests in a purely platonic way could be a cathartic distraction.
Hugs and love to you all!
All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)
So, is it wrong to date while separated? No, to go out and have dinner with someone who you may consider a friend, is not wrong. However, to date, as in hop-in-the-sack with them, technically is. That is considered infidelity.
My thoughts are this..
- To get over something that is hurtful, when you are down you can move ahead by replacing what you need with something different. THere is a hole that will be missing you cannot replace by focusing on only your job or kids.. FILL IT I SAY...When you have a friend of the opposite sex, they can be your friend and you will get affirmations from them just by doing things with them.
And you could also have good friendships with other men. They will affirm you too.. but in far different ways. Start doing more stuff with your male friends too.
H&C… This is my thoughts... why don’t you go ahead, grab your camera and ask your W to take a few pictures of you so you can post them on Match.com (Meetup is good too and maybe a better choice but I would do both to increase your odds) so you can find a good female friend to do things with.
Should she say something alike.. “I’m not going to do that?”
Your manly response should be.. I am not going to love any woman who is not going to live up to her vows. This is what you want, not me. I am moving on not by my choice, but your choice. If what you really mean is you want to get your head back in this marriage, I will try. Otherwise, D is right around the corner and the consequences are I am going to have close female friends. Get ready for us to have a different type of relationship.. I can be your friend, and a friend will take a simple picture... that's all. OK. I will find someone else to take a few. Then go about your happy day.
Your STBXW will read between the lines and that is all you need to say. She will NEVER get off the hook for her own choice to not be loving.. when she could if she really wanted to place her mind in the right place.
This is a good thing… It will help your W get over her fears of being single.
Once you find a woman who only wants to go to movies, dinner, lunch.. talk about today things, do not make her a shoulder to cry on.. and no sex.. you will be doing something for her as well as YOU.
So what if most reject you on that site.
Jeff George, an QB for the Colts years ago would hit the bars. He would tell a woman.. I am Jeff George, the QB for the Colts, do you want to go home with me? He got slapped a few times but guess what? Some messed up woman would go home with him. It is worth the rejection to find the right woman.
A woman not messed up can be your friend during this time. Enjoy it. Don’t screw it up though.. you might come across a woman who only wants your.. Sex and romance. She might grab your hand.. flirt with you.. just say.. I am not ready until I am no longer M. It was not my choice to end my M. Let’s just be friends and enjoy our company with each other.
For a IC to tell you not to have a female friend is saying to you.. Stay in your depression.. stay in those bad feelings… do not be adventurous and try something new. What is good about that? Avoid making a friend? What is good about that?
You might as well get ready to being single.. it is different/ Making some new friends and make yourself availible. If you don’t, you will stay stuck in grief. Don’t do it… lift yourself out of the grief. Say ouch and think ahead.
I know something about us.. We who had LTA happen to us.. We feared. We feared placing pressure on our spouses when they behaved badly.. and that could have been with sex, services, quality time, ugly words said to us.. We did not communicate things in a way that brought us closer in M.. we might have done nothing by accepting…. That is something that we must learn and never do again… not wait for something very bad to happen before we finally get the courage.
H&C.. the conseqences are being paid in your situation.. you are making your STBXW no longer part of your daily world besides the business of equal share in raising the kids.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:21 AM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]
Know how I know? Because I freaking had a four-day INTERNET FLIRTATION with a man before I was divorced and it is the one thing that makes me feel like crap two years later!
Good gravy. WTF?! Just no.
I will date when I can do so with integrity
Nell.. let me challenge you a bit for good discussion. Heck, I think you could even feel the pressure from post! Lol..
OMG! No, don't date while you're married! You know what it will do?
1. Make you feel like sh!t because you are dating WHILE YOU ARE MARRIED.
2. Give your WW actual evidence that what she did wasn't so bad because you are doing the (approximate) same thing.
3. Add a whole lot more anger to the D process, which will suck for you AND for your children.
A person can lead another into a more pleasant split… can simple say things like.. STBXW.. I never wanted to split, you did.. I am OK with that today… part of that is for us to now treat each other as pleasant as possible and basically make our worlds different. We are not going to be part of each others life. Let’s get used to this.. We can do it pleasant and not evolve the kids. You involve the kids, that falls on you and a mother should not want anything bad for the kids… or we can do it in anger and I will explain to out kids the best of my ability. I am not going to be angry; I’m just doing what I need to do to be the healthiest man… and you can be healthy now too. I do forgive you.
4. Bring an innocent person into an already crappy situation.
Do you get the theme and the key to strength and happiness?
Believe me, we cannot be weak. Weak is not attractive. H&C.. The fat lady has not sung yet.. You do what I say and your W might decide she does not want to be unmarried. She is waiting and waiting for you to make your move. DO IT.. People that cheat have a very bad characteristic about them.. they live in fear. They are too afraid to confront the mess they caused in most cases. It is not real common a W like mine or Njgal comes around.
If her fear dictates her choice and If she decides to get her head back in the M, you let me know.. I have some help for you to lead your W to a much better place. A place where she will enjoy the new you and she will reward you for it.
We must be the strong ones.. and never be weak.. When you are strong you will feel good. Strong is starting to behave like she is no longer part of your world. That will end your grief. Discuss only the kids.. business only.
I understand what you are saying.
You are dead wrong.
i think this is not a one size fits all sich....
there are some who are separated and not divorcing because of medical coverage
there are some who are living with an in house separation
there are some waiting for their ws to "wake up"
there are some who are still on the fence
there are some who plan on divorcing but there spouse doesn't know it yet...
i could go on and on with this...
the point: i think you would need to look at each sich and its solely up to the bs...the bs should be on the way to divorce or at least separated whether it be in house or not, and the ws needs to know that the bs intends to divorce, after that its none of the ws's business.....
it really is a matter of your own personal values that you feel within.....because you will have to live with those choices for long after....and if you have no issue with those choices then go for it and just be careful and realize that you are not in any emotional state for anything long term and you should be honest with any person you do date....they have a right to know the sich, (not the personal shit, but the fundamental shit) to decide if they still want to be involved....and again....i would highly recommend against looking for serious.....
personally as long as you are divorcing and your stbx knows you are plannin to divorce them, it then i say have fun....keep it all light and airy....
and if like tryn said, if you are still emotionally connected then you aren't ready to date whether you are married and/or separated/divorced
(((trust))) how are you???? i always remember you in my prayers
1. you are honest about you sitch with whom you meet.
2. you are able to maintain boundaries
3. you are indeed separated (even if in-house) and have agreed with your WW that you are moving onward apart
4. you realize that you are in no position to offer a healthy relationship yet
...developing some female friends, and I do mean friends, is good anyways - source for being fixed up on a date down the road...
I do not agree with Nell that this is cheating as you tried for a LONG time to R, and your WW has explicitly said the M is over, regardless of who lives where. The M is over, so no cheating.
I do not agree with tryn to look at steps at moving onward as a way of attracting back your W. manipulative. plus such an agenda says the M is not explicitly over.
best of luck,
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
I am comfortable in my own skin and do not need the external validation
Good for you H&C! I think many would do better if they had a relationship with themselves alone before dating. Just like I think you need to be prepared to D to prepare for R, I really think it is important to be solidly comfortable alone as a foundation for participating in significant pair relationships.
ETA: it is worth a trip to the Quote thread in F&G to see Nell's quote, p 45 NIK posted it.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 12:33 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]
I personally do not think.. “Hey, you choose not to be in this M.. then I move on..” is manipulative. It is not unscrupulous. It is what happens.
Manipulative is to stay around bopping, lying your spouse while giving yourself to another in secret. You are selfishly controlling what is NOT a M.
Manipulative is to string a man along by saying you want a D, then doing nothing further with that choice.. why do that? To unscrupulously prevent that man from having a loving companion.. take whatever love she can get from him.. Selfishly enjoying whatever fruits she needs for her own satisfactions… As long as we let others manipulate us.. they will. .
Sometimes when another sees the consequences of their own bad behaviors, they change their own values. That fat lady won’t sing until the D papers are signed.
...to clarify, I just do not think H&C should engage in external relationships solely as a means (specific agenda) toward affecting WW...the agenda should be making sure he is moving onward, 'heading for happiness'...
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 1:05 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]
[This message edited by MutedMan at 1:25 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]