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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Danni-

You confirmed:

...I do not beleive he is trying to lead me to a better place. He is thinking of himself. ...
As far as making H feel guilty, Last week...was the first time I said anything in a very long time...

^^^ sad to read that. You have done your part to create a safe and loving environment for him. You must be authentic however. Hiding your grief is holding you back. You have questions- are you prepared for there being, in finality, no answers that make sense? Remember that affairs exist as irrational behaviors.

You may have done this - maybe not - but have you listed *very specifically* what you need? I ask this because in IC I told my IC that I was looking for closure and that I wanted my WW to help provide me closure. She challenged me to state what specific action I would want my WW to take or do. Otherwise, if there was none, I was just wanting my WW to 'heal' me.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey WomaninFlux,
Just want to say that after 7 years...my fwh probably would have just kept going had I not caught him. He compartamentalizes so well and had found someone so undemanding of his time and attention that he probably would never have stopped. I have struggled with lack of trust not only in my fwh, but in myself as well now. But...I try to remind myself that is is difficult for someone like me to even fathom that this type of betrayal could be happening. I think that is how most bs's on si feel. I am working on building that self trust back up.

As far as that friend feeding you info...she certainly isn't a friend. And my guess...she has her own problems...possiibly in her own marriage...but it is easier to focus on yours than deal with her own. Some people live for being a part of someone else's drama. I would be very careful of her...she is probably a talker too...a gossip maybe.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 468 | Registered: Aug 2012
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn - Thank you for the compliment. I am not avoiding things. I just have enough drama IRL. No need to engage in drama at SI, which is my sanctuary. You have given me a lot of sage advice, which I am so grateful for, but you are way off base with all this gender nonsense.

To answer your question, I believe it is better to have a parent at home nurturing your child, not necessarily the mother, if you can. I actually made more money than my husband when health issues and a desire to be home for my daughter drove our mutual decision for me to stay at home, and I don't regret it. That being said, the daycare DD was in as a preschooler was phenomenal and very nurturing. Also I know some fantastic stay at home dads.

ETA - I hold doors for people every day.

[This message edited by DecimatedHeart at 4:52 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dip… I know the subject is taboo.

Does your group teach you how to insult and piss off women?

What they teach is to be quality FIRST. Then you be quality.. And if some of that pisses a woman off.. let them be pissed. If they stay pissed.. then you take that misery out of your life.

Dip.. let me asked you a question.. When you are with your male co-workers and you go to lunch, do you rush to the car door and open that door for that man? Why not? if you are that friendly?

LOL.. I think you know the point I am making.

Let me share more of the logic behind what my therapist says… See what you guys think.

Feminism initially started off as a good thing. A woman with equal ability should have the same opportunities as a man. She shouldn't be given a leg up or down because of her gender - it should all be based on ability. Good things right?


But today.. the movement has gone in a way wrong direction.


But what it is teaching woman is that it is ok to have casual sex. Go romp with whoever you want, it is your body. Men love that! That is not taboo anymore. Men want sex so bad they pay for it. Do women do this? Not many and it is very rare. The new attitude Feminism is teaching is that.. OK.. No need for a man to make a serious commitment. No need for a man to earn sex.. it comes so easy. No need to open the car door any more.. I give it to you for free without you behaving in a quality way. Can you imagine why those boys in Ohio watch on and filmed a girl passed out get raped? Laughing, not even thinking about it other than.. the casualness of it all. Sex is viewed as so casual, yet when we discover an A it brings us so much pain when our spouses have it with another. Sex is not so much viewed a gift, a connection, a way to really be committed.


And then you have.. choice.. But in the deepest of our minds and hearts.. knowing science.. science is science.. it is ok to be evil… It is such an easy procedure.. so no hardship is bestowed on me… but the wonder lingers.. who would they be? What would they look like? What did I do? The new feminism is totally about selfishness.. Teaching selfishness.


And how about this they teach and approve this.. Don’t rely on M or your man to support you women when you have a child. Go to work so you are not dependant when he leaves you for the bimbo casual sex woman they want the woman to be in the above. That valuable touch and emotional engagement are lacking from the mother.. do you really think a caretaker will give that to your child? You can disagree with me for saying it… You go ahead. I hope to teach my DD and son opposite.


Let’s face it.. the choice for M is an emotional one. It is two becoming one.. It’s mutual.. My W body is my body and my body is my W body.. Not to be shared for bonding reasons. NOT this value NOW has… I must worked tirelessly to ensure that my husband owns neither my body nor my paycheck.

That’s the lie they teach. What they trick the young women to value. They are bad values.. painful values that bring misery.

danni.. no time right now.. I must go love on my W.

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:49 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you think it best to stay at home to teach your children life lessons or let someone else do it?

OM1 is a stay at home dad. Mainly because he is a complete loser and never has been able to hold down a job in his life so he might as well do something that he can't get fired for. I am fairly confident based on what I know of him, those kids would be better raised by someone else teaching them life lessons during the day. I am sure during my WWs LTA she found him being a stay at home dad as attractive - now it looks more like pathetic.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OM1 is a stay at home dad. Mainly because he is a complete loser and never has been able to hold down a job in his life

I am going to tell you something about every man I know.. We don't respect a house husband. We might say.. oh that is great.. but it is laughed at.

I would have been a great househusband though.. It is going to take decades to change this.. And most women don't want a house husband. They want a man.. who does man things...

The guy across the street was a great househusband. I respected him.. but not many of the men in the neighborhood.. They laughed. I wonder how his W felt if she overheard her man had no status? Proud? He now works and she stays at home.

Sister it is ok if you also are equal in doing man things..

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:58 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, dip, I meant to ask you what's on the grill tonight? I am HUNGRY!!!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We don't respect a house husband

I didn't say that at all. I don't have respect for the dude that cheated on my wife for 12 years. I think I have a right to not respect that.

But what it is teaching woman is that it is ok to have casual sex. Go romp with whoever you want, it is your body. Men love that! That is not taboo anymore. Men want sex so bad they pay for it. Do women do this? Not many and it is very rare. The new attitude Feminism is teaching is that.. OK.. No need for a man to make a serious commitment. No need for a man to earn sex.. it comes so easy. No need to open the car door any more.. I give it to you for free without you behaving in a quality way. Can you imagine why those boys in Ohio watch on and filmed a girl passed out get raped? Laughing, not even thinking about it other than.. the casualness of it all. Sex is viewed as so casual, yet when we discover an A it brings us so much pain when our spouses have it with another. Sex is not so much viewed a gift, a connection, a way to really be committed.

How many episodes of Sex in the City have you watched? I think that is HBO teaching those values and not necessarily feminism.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that is HBO teaching those values and not necessarily feminism.

Good point...certainly feminism, like any school of thought, can be a hydra. Not to mention the term itself can mean different things. I would not be surprised to discover that there really were no real disagreements if we were to spend hours making sure we were calibrating our terms and talking about the same things.

Further just because something is descriptive does not mean it is predictive.

Now to the HBO comment, it is not HBO teaching those values. It is something behind HBO and its willingness to produce such shows, something behind the willingness to watch those shows. I do not know it is, but I am glad that we are discussing values here at SI together. It is discussing values that keeps values alive and well.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a reason that the guidelines on SI state that discussions about religion and politics are off limits.
IMHO this discussion about feminism etc. is veering off into that territory.

I'd hate to think that someone new to SI would stumble upon the LTA forum looking for help and instead find themselves in the middle of a debate!

There are so many people in need of advice and looking for an opportunity to express their thoughts after being traumatized by a LTA-let's focus on that.

Womaninflux-
Please don't beat yourself up about not realizing that your WS was cheating on you.
You did not guess that anything was going on because your mind does not think that way.
You know the old saying? "It takes one to know one"!
I was tipped off to something fishy on the computer in December 2006.
It took me one month to finally get to the point of confronting my FWH and finding out about the LTA.
During that month I consulted a number of people-showing them the evidence that I had.
One person that I went to was my therapist ( I had seen her in the past to help deal with some issues that we had with our teenage daughter). I showed her the flirtatioue email I had stumbled upon and asked her what she thought.
She did not think it was a full blown affair from the evidence. But, she thought he was on a slippery slope and I should confront him.

Meanwhile... I also confided in my oldest and dearest friend from childhood (who unfortunately was a WW herself) and guess what?
She was the ONLY person who immediately said that my FWH was having an affair!

She recognized the subtle signs in the email right away.
Why? because she had been a WW herself.

My other friends and my sister did not see it. They were not former WS.

So..you thought the best of your husband because you assumed that he lived his life the way you did and viewed marriage the way you did.

You did nothing wrong.
Seeing the best in people is a good thing.

I was just like you. I had no clue. And that's why I was so shocked after d-day.

As for your friend that continues to make comments about your WH's infidelity.... it sounds as if she is toxic and unkind.
She does not sound like a friend of your marriage.
If you are trying to reconcile I would steer clear of her and her comments.
Tell her thanks but no thanks- that you and your WH are trying to work things out. And walk away.

As for wanting to be caught.
My FWH NEVER wanted to be caught.
He did say that he wanted the LTA to end and that he had tried to end it many times. What method did he use? He tried distancing himself from the MOW/co-worker. He never came out and told her no.
He said it was a routine...that he didn't know how to end it... etc. etc.

The MOW was very undemanding and put up with crumbs.She was also an alcoholic and drinking buddy. In my opinion the LTA could have gone on for years longer if the truth did not come out.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Positive attitude-
I know exactly how you feel. I obsessed about the OW for years after d-day.I obsessed over all kinds of details having to do with the LTA.
I would feel the same way that you do about the flowers.

Of course, you do not feel that would be a good enough wedding anniversary gift!

Honestly, I think that your WH did not remember that he gave the same flower arrangement to the OW.

But, it does show a certain lack of caring and effort on his part in terms of doing something special for you.

A common trait that the WS seem to have is selfishness.

As I always say.
Ending the affair is not enough.
To truly reconcile and have a new marriage the WS has to do a lot of work on themselves-internal work focused on figuring out how they got to such a low point in their lives and figuring out what they can do to change and become a better person.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you think it best to stay at home to teach your children life lessons or let someone else do it?

I can concede that in an ideal world where money was a non-issue, it would be ideal for me to stay at home with the kids.

By the same token, in an ideal world, where money was not an issue, I would also say its best for kids to have their father available to them 24/7 as well.

Of course - none of this means anything. This is not real life. Compromises must be made.

Do you think men understand you better than women?

Absolutely not.

Do you think it is best to be M, commited when you have children?

Of course, an intact family is preferred, BUT not under certain circumstances. Sometimes the children are better off with divorced parents.

Tryn, I think that you have very old fashioned ideas and part of that is fueled and continued by what I would guess is your belief that had your wife not entered the workforce and was at home instead cleaning & cooking, etc. she would not have had the opportunity or inclination to have an affair.

Feminism initially started off as a good thing. A woman with equal ability should have the same opportunities as a man.,,

But what it is teaching woman is that it is ok to have casual sex...

I think that the world in general has gone this route - becoming more liberal about many things, sex included.

The new attitude Feminism is teaching is that.. OK.. No need for a man to make a serious commitment. No need for a man to earn sex..

No. Definitely not.

The new feminism is totally about selfishness.. Teaching selfishness

This is really just too much.

Feminism is about independence and equality. And, you twisting that to make it sound like the new modern woman is running about having casual sex, not wanting a commitment, while a stranger watches her kids is just way off.

Anyhoo - we have gone far astray in what we are supposed to be discussing here.

You have made a great contribution to this forum and to me personally and hope that continues. Let's leave this argument to the side.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Danni- You need to know what you need to know.
Everyone is different.
Some people can reconcile with very few details about the LTA.
Others -like me- needed to know everything.

I also needed to hear it from my husband's lips so that I knew for certain that he understood the gravity of what he had done, so that he could no longer hide from the truth and pretend that he was a nice guy.
I do think that my husband did that when he was compartmentalizing the LTA.

He literally said that when he drove out of the parking lot after getting a BJ from the MOW he would stop thinking about her and not give her anymore time in his head...until the next time.

I wanted him to face up to what he done-how he had lived his life. I wanted us to have an honest relationship, I wanted him to be honest with me but most of all honest with himself.

That was why I needed him to tell me these things. I didn't ask him to hurt him or to make him uncomfortable.
Yes, it was about trying to make myself feel better and trying to understand and get closure....but it also had to do with wanting to make sure that I was doing the right thing in reconciling.
I needed to know that he 'got it'.

If we had swept it under the rug and not discussed it all....I would have wondered if there was a chance that he was not truly remorseful and did not truly regret what he had done...and that there was a chance of a repeat situation.

That's why I needed to know........


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Suspicious  Posted: 6:38 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn'
Sister it is ok if you also are equal in doing man things..
Well, gee, thanks. Fortunately for me I neither want or need your approval.

I have had all day to think about how I felt about your post. I could actually write pages and pages on why and how your views on feminism (and women) are condescending, insulting, offensive and outrageous. I could write pages on how I have been personally affected by sexism.

A few key points. When I was born, women had the right to vote for 35 years. When I was able to vote for the first time, it was actually only approximately the 12th Presidential election that women were able to participate in. The birth control pill become legal in 1960. It gave women the same freedom to "casual sex" that men had always had since the beginning of time. Casual sex does not equate to promiscuity in either men or women.

I have decided, however, to not to bother as I know you are so entrenched in your chauvinistic, archaic and provincial views and attitude about women that it would be an exercise in futility for me. You apparently have support and encouragement in this attitude from your therapist and men's group. I am appalled and horrified that there are actually more men out there that think as you do and support each other in this sexism.

Your point of view, that are subtlely implied in your posts, about BS's being partially to blame for the affair and your sexism has already chased away one beloved and longtime member of the tribe, who no longer felt safe posting here. I am angry about that and hold you personally responsible for that. I can't imagine how many others may have been discouraged from posting here because of your posts.

As you probably know by now, I am about as subtle as a fucking freight train. I, for one, do not appreciate your posts that are filled with blame, self loathing, fear and condescension.

eta: to clear up that I mean the "self loathing and fear" manifesting itself as sexist remarks/statements. Also, I don't mean all your posts are filled with blame and sexism, I just don't appreciate the ones that are full of blame and sexism.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:24 AM, September 20th (Friday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd hate to think that someone new to SI would stumble upon the LTA forum looking for help and instead find themselves in the middle of a debate!

There are so many people in need of advice and looking for an opportunity to express their thoughts after being traumatized by a LTA-let's focus on that.

NJ I have to disagree with your opinion on this some. I have seen a typical pattern on the LTA forum. Tryn brings up a touchy subject. I don't necessarily agree with his viewpoints but I respect the fact that his isn't avoiding conflict in his attemps. This is followed the above type of response. There are people with real issues, go away men with your debate. Are male opinions not as respected here?

The facts are that if this forum were to exist 20 or 30 years ago at least half of the men here would not be here. Why because the gap between cheating men versus cheating women is quickly becoming more equal. This presents challenges for the betrayed male, we are not as socially accepted. Its one reason why I have kept my WW infidelity not known to many people. To me, these are real issues that I am trying to work through and understand. Again, I don't agree with Tryn opinion, it is old fashioned but he does have somewhat a valid point under it all.

Now as far as rules against SI - in disagreements with Tryn I have witnessed some obvious generalizations that have been made but those don't seem to be called out like tryn's comments are.

are you SURE you're not a Jewish grandmother? Because you've got the imposing guilt thing down cold.

is what got my Irish up...

Why the double standard?


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why because the gap between cheating men versus cheating women is quickly becoming more equal.
Who were these men cheating with "back then"?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All:

I think we should all exhale and remember that:

1. opinions are like assholes, everyone has one
2. there should be no taking offense in an intellectual discussion

I do agree with NJGal in that some of the discussion is not germane to LTAs and infidelity. We should try to stay on the topic.

I also agree with RP, there seems to be a hushing of men, using the 'offense card' when there is debate as opposed to just hugs.

The fact of the matter is that today's views might not agree with folks three generations from now - just like those of my father's (born 1899) are of no use today. Asserting the primacy of today's most popular viewpoints is presumptious in a debate. 'Offensive' is too strong a word IMO, and reaction to tryn's posts have been personal unfortunately.

Now back to our regular channel:

LTAs SUCK!!!!

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 7:06 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, MC_Jack, if you lost a job you desperately needed because you wouldn't fuck your boss, maybe you would feel differently. A married boss, btw. There was no "sexual harassment" laws in those days. I was fucked one way or the other. So, yeah, I am offended.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunite:

I don't really know what someone should be calling me out about when I said I'm getting my Irish up. It's a saying. It was not meant to offend anyone. So, I apologize if anyone was offended.

While I desperately want to leave this ugliness behind, there is simply no comparison between what Tryn said & the 2 sayings referenced in your post.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Who were these men cheating with "back then"?

I am guessing they cheated with more single women rather than married ones. I will fully admit spending too much time analyzing infidelity stats can be tricky. When your goal is to ask questions of those who are lying and deceiving you might not be getting accurate information.

there seems to be a hushing of men, using the 'offense card' when there is debate as opposed to just hugs

Thank you MC, you stated what I was observing is probably a nicer format that what I did.

there is simply no comparison between what Tryn said & the 2 sayings referenced in your post.

Allgood - I dont mean to call you out as much as I am making a point. I know what you said is a saying, it still is a generalization about a certain group of people. I doubt there is anyone that is not guilty in their lifetime of saying different types of generizations. The severity of the generalization is in the hands of the person that heard it and not with the person that said it. For some reason the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame is very socially acceptable.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
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