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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: Parenting can be called a lot of things....teaching can use a lot of tactics that could be labelled "manipulative" etc. You are trying to teach some life skills and that is not necessarally manipulative.

To try to teach Cause and effect is not manipulative, but reality: you don't pay the electric bill, you will lose the power.

The second part of your post addressing abuse, especially emotional abuse is interesting. Emotional abuse can be so subtle and be built over a long period of time. Sometimes it is done on purpose to gain control of another person on purpose (manipulation) and sometimes, like in my mother's case, it is not done on purpose per se, but because of emotional problems, personality disorders, etc. It can be helpful to see the difference, but in the end the damage can be the same.

Perhaps in the healing process of the victim, if one can understand it's the other person's personality disorder, it may not be taken as personally and can help in the healing, but the person can still be as toxic as the one who is doing it on purpose.

After all this time I'm realizing I'm trying to heal from both types: the one who couldn't help it(my mother) and the one who is doing it on purpose (NPD)

And in the meanwhile, I'm trying to raise two teenage sons....teenagers.....the epitomy of craziness!

Teenagers can question your sanity on a good day, never mind that I question my sanity anyway

I feel tired, washed up, used and although I know that there is a way through all this, I'm not sure I see a road to happiness, but perhaps the road to less pain....or another kind of pain and loneliness.

I know I have to make my own happiness. It's funny, Tryn, you mentioned something about the WS feeling guilt from whatever happiness they may feel.....

I feel guilty if I feel any kind of happiness....that is something I have to work out in IC.

Sorry, feeling kind of messed up today.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Walking
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Member # 40102
Default  Posted: 4:27 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To clarify I was doing the one 180 for me, focused on work and focused on me and children. I was not saying I love you, i was not a sounding board for his issues, but not having me available every minute to be his moral support got him angry. His new thing is calling me rude ( which in a way makes me really chuckle because me not returning his texts inside 30 minutes is somehow ruder than the 3 year affair with the wacktoid that walked in our house to confront me in front of our children. ) I am concluding we are not recovering, we are just not currently divorcing. In short he was crabby when I didn't make enough money, now he's crabby I do and I am becoming independent of him, he's crabby when I am not available at the drop of a hat for his contact, yet he is distant and rude when I am available and try and be supportive or engage him with our kids, I feel like there is nothing pleasant or happy about our relationship right now, and in addition he is ignoring our children, its been absent parenting on his part for years. They have no relationship (middle school and elementary aged), by his choice. It's gotten worse if possible since the affair. He never asks even how they are. My parents are spending more time with them than he is. I should add, due to his work we are not residing together full time ( which has been the case for years and was a decision he made without me- turns out it was much easier to have a girlfriend without a pesky family around). In short he apparently wants a connection but only on his terms. Short of a few random I'm sorrys I have gotten nothing from him. Certainly not the contrite behavior of a cheating spouse. I know I am supposed to give this time but seriously, how long will it take before he develops some self awareness of the situation he created and his obligation to help fix it?

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Midwest
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:50 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel guilty if I feel any kind of happiness

Interesting comment Honest. I need to think about that.. but my initial thoughts.. Self worth.. For me, you have a worth. You have this ability to set me in a direction of good. You post to me all the time and others all the time sending us in that direction. I wish my W was far more like you. You are such a giver. NPD feed off that.. They take advantage of folks (givers) like that… perhaps why you were attracted to your H.. Trained by your mom. Do you have cable TV? Have you ever watch Interior Therapy with Jeff Lewis?
Season 2, Episode 10 Aired: September 10, 2013; Jeff and Jenni help a young bride stand up for herself.
So easy for me to tell you to be that woman.. so hard to be that woman. No different for me to change my own bad behavors.

Walking..

His new thing is calling me rude

See.. this is a way to manipulate you. Your man is a manipulator and in a bad behavior way.
When we look at ourselves.. We can change something about us. Example.. Allgood, Sister, Njgal, blob.. refused to let me manipulate them and was on the end of my manipulation. Now that is quality.

If you were truly rude.. Then your man should say and be not rude himself first. “Hey, that was rude. I am not rude to you and you are not going to be rude to me. Stop it… “ and if you continue to be rude.. Then you give consequences… leading to ultimately an ultimatum. But you had better not be a hypocrite. You first must never be rude yourself... honestly.. A hypocrite will never motivate change the “right” change. And if you don't look at yourself first, you will always end up in the same ole misery.

If you look at yourself and you were not rude.. Then it is manipulation. He is trying to change you in some way to conform to his needs. You address it by making him react. Be prepared for the next “You are rude comment from him.” In fact, anytime you receive a criticism, be prepared. First think about it hard.. Was I? And you had better be on the right side. If you were on the right side.. you conflict. “Look Dude, Just because I do something different, it may end exactly the same as the way YOU do it. I am different than you and you are different than me. Stop it!... “ You just gave your man some pressure.
“I am not going to be treated this way. You can criticize me all you want, but I am not going to accept it in my world. You got that man?” But always reset those comments ending with something safe.. “Now I am going back to what I was doing, and when I finish, you are welcome to start loving me the right way if you want.” Then never bring it up again unless they behave in that same way...

I know I am supposed to give this time but seriously, how long will it take before he develops some self awareness of the situation he created and his obligation to help fix it?
When you grow into a woman who can conflict to a point he WANTS to change. People usually do not change unless they react to an event. They will never change.. no amount of time.. Until they see themselves as wrong and need to change. If they don’t.. then not in anger.. but for yourself.. you make them no longer part of your world.

Time.. Patience is a virtue. On average, it takes 3 months for someone to change when they want to change. We learn through repetition. It might take several time to conflict before he "gets it"..

Long distance marriages. They are most difficult. They are a choice. You don’t have to make this choice. Myself, I will never have a long distant marriage. When I say that.. meaning long times of no face to face interaction. The odds of a close marriage is almost impossible. The odds are just too bad. That is my values.

If my W came to me ,
W, “Honey, I have a new job and it means I will be gone every 4 weeks for 4 weeks at a time.”
Me, “That is against my values to a person I am married. It is near impossible to have a close M in that case.”
W, “Whine, whine, justify, justify, manipulate, manipulate… etc”
Me, “You make your choice honey..”
W, “I choose to take this job.”
Me.. I hire an attorney and end my relationship. Love is a choice.. not a feeling.
I then choose Temporary discomfort for long term success in love. I love myself enough to know, misery happens but I do not place myself in positions that risk more misery.

The love of quality time I place that much value. It becomes mismatch values and sometimes there is no resolution to hold on to your values other than.. "the end". A given in life.. Things end.

It is up to you to decide if you play the odds or not. A soldier chooses that career. It means months away from his/her spouse. You make this choice. If 66% of all men cheat.. and as NJgal pointed out that just because men cheat more statistically, there is no gender difference.. it is more about “Opportunity”.. Then those are not good odds. Now you throw distance in the equation.. odd increase even more. Protect yourself.

And it is no different value when you allow your man porn.. allow you spouse to have sex with another.. Those kinds of values that risk additions..

And this is what my Therapist teaches I share with you fine folks.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:09 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


do not have much time

walking: i found myself screaming at the screen for you.....your ws is simply deflecting....he is putting all negative focus onto you so that he doesn't have to deal with his shit....my ws did that to me for years...instead of owning their behavior they need to make it about you and your imagined behavior...it wasn't until after d-day that i saw this pattern clearly for the first time....

take a step back each time he accuses you of something...for the most part if its absurd its because it really is....and he is either

a) deflecting....fight her about anything possible so i don't have to deal with this

or

b) you are a mirror...and anything he accuses you of is really about him....accusing you of being rude when in fact he is the rude one

either way.....he is not stepping up and taking ownsership for what he has done and by treating you the way he has been treating you in what he continues to do....

180 his ass to save your own hon....if he finds rude then oh well...thats life, that part of the bed he made...the 180 is about you taking care of you....right now he is toxic, he is not doin what he should be doin....180 180 180

get yourself to ic.....and keep in mind that you are still raw....it can take a good 6 months just to think somewhat clearly.....you have had your own personal 9/11....so remember that and take care of you....

k....gotta run to work now..


((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
DecimatedHeart
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Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So WH has reverted back to his 'during the affair' version of himself, and I spent the whole weekend crying. He was screaming at me and pounding his fist on my grandmother's antique marble coffee table. Why? Because I was 'so selfish' as to tell him I was hurt he never returns my emails. Threw me a few crumbs on Saturday when I couldn't stop crying, then back to pounding furniture screaming at me on Sunday when I told him I was hurt he said he would meet me for my break at work and then not only didn't show, but didn't bother to call to tell me he had changed his mind.

I feel like asking him if he is seeing her again, could he please just tell me so I can quit wasting time trying to save our marriage and he can quit wasting time lying to me. I did ask him if I looked on his phone how many pieces would my heart break into. He refused to answer. I told him that in and of itself was an answer, and his response was 'not necessarily'. What is that supposed to mean?

I feel like I fell for it again, and am right back to a crying, quivering mess. When am I going to learn?


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

D-heart, I am so sorry to read your post. Yep, it sounds like your H is just downright unremorseful if not cake-eating again.

Take back control, don't just ask him how you would feel if you looked at the phone,

1.Demand to look at the phone. Demand transparency and full access to the phone and emails. No negotiation.
2. You H made a promise to meet you then broke it without a word. That is his issue, his character. You need to summon the strength to look at that as clarity not disappointment. Let him make his bed to lie in. (pardon the pun).
3. Babe, you need to consult with a lawyer and file for divorce IMO, if he is still secretive and punishing you for what HE did. Divorce is long process and anything can happen during that time.
4. You now must love yourself enough to protect yourself from this crap. When you H complains that you don't trust him, tell him damn right you do not as he has not earned trust, and that you love yourself too much to put up with his harm.

Sorry d-heart. I know how much you are hurting. I wish the tribe here could swoop in and swab the decks for you.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DH.. it is ok to hurt over this stuff. Realise that your H is not loving you.. That crumb he gave you was just that.. a crumb..

Obviously.. pounding on a table is exactly what I have been saying. You do that to intimidate someone into backing off.

DH.. Have confidence in your own abilities! You can refuse to be held held hostage by your mental torture.

Take a leap.. take a chance.

You can be rational.. be rational.

You cannot change your H.. He must want to change. I give you courage to change you and your life.. to a far more pleasant life. You have my permission to do it... MC's too.

I bet you will be free once you make the choice.. BE FREE... it feels good.

He is holding you back from such a great peace.. go grab it.

No longer will you be controlled without your permission. Say it! Say it.. over and over..

Close your eyes.. dream how good it will feel to wake up.. only you decide what you want to do.. Nobody else.

Do not view this as abandoning.. but liberation!

A higher power wants you to be happy.. Do not belive anthing else.

Call your support system.. Friend, family.. Get thier support.. you can do this.

I do not minimize your fears... they are great.. Put your safe plan in place.. make it your full time job to form the plan so you can pull that trigger..


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DH: I am so sorry to hear this. He was giving you crumbs.

I know how much you are hurting. I really, really do.

I am so sorry to hear of his behavior. It is typical unremorseful spouse behavior and also has all the signs of a spouse who is still in the A.

Listen to Jack and Tryn.

Go to a few lawyers for a consult ASAP. It is free. Find out what your options are.

You've made a great first step by getting a job.

The next step is to 180!

I know it was hard for me to do a complete 180, but you can do a version of it.

First of all, you need to set a boundary about the table pounding.

Today, you quietly, without emotion, tell him that he is allowed to have any emotion he wants: anger, being upset, happy, etc. BUT, it is not acceptable to yell at you like that while pounding on tables and showing his anger physically. Tell him that the next time he does that, you are going to leave the room and will talk with him when he calms down.

If he yells like that again, say VERY CALMLY AND QUIETLY, " I see you are too angry to talk, I'll wait until you calm down" then leave the room.

Don't let him bait you into arguing with him. Don't answer him when he's yelling. and most importantly, try not to let him see you cry. That is the hardest thing to do. If you have to go to the bathroom or even leave the house, do so.

Another thing I did that helped was when NPD tried to bait me and say something hurtful or inappropriate, I smiled at him and said simply, "Ouch!" and walked away.

Implementing the 180 is very difficult, but I am suggesting these first few steps for you to take.

Of course, if your WH at any time gets physically abusive, call 911 immediately. Do NOT hesitate for one moment.

Also, if he tries to be intimidating physically get away and later when he calms down you tell him that if he ever raises a hand to you, you are going to call 911.

Keep posting DH. We are here for you. Try to stay strong. I know how much pain you are feeling and how much you want your M.

But, the horrible reality is that our old M's are dead. Plain and simple.

A new M must be built. That's what the WS who wants to rugsweep must understand.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I fell for it again, and am right back to a crying, quivering mess. When am I going to learn?

DH, we "learn" when we are ready to "learn". It's different for all of us. You see the pattern now. Below is something you wrote about halfway back in the thread.

At some point, I quit screaming and calmly told him that if he really has no compassion and no remorse, that I was done, and not "move into the spare room" done, but DONE. And I meant it. He said he wasn't talking about this anymore, and whether he was done with the conversation or done with us was up to me.

I went into the spare room and sat for a bit, trying to reconcile that it was really, really, over and where the hell do I go from here. An hour later, I go downstairs and DD says she got an invitation to a friend's birthday party and WH tells her no, we will be on vacation then for my birthday. I was so confused.

Notice the patterns, you had decided to change the status quo and he magically becomes super hubby again until he realized you weren't going to rugsweep all of this away and allow his cake eating. I believe I remember you basically having an exit plan mapped out which lead to the above statement. Then he goes and pulls the "Mr. reformed WH routine" on you so you won't start your plan. You got emotionally knocked down. You just get back up again and start focusing on the only thing you can change and that is you and YOUR situation. He may or may not choose to ever do what he is supposed to do but you have no control over that. Try to let go of that outcome. Try to let go of the man you thought he was or he used to be and see exactly who is standing in front of you pounding the table. Any time he tries to engage your "give a damn" button picture him standing their banging on the table. That's who he IS. Whether it's who he remains is up to him.

I am so sorry you are feeling down. It seems like it's harder and harder to get up after each blow but this may sound weird but if you are like some of us that have the unremorseful WS's, watch how quickly you recover from this latest set back. The pain is more intense but unfortunately we got used to it and eventually you get too tired to play the game anymore. When it kept happening over and over to me, I knew what to expect and at some point I decided to stop it myself. You can do the same. Get your plan in place whatever that may be and work towards it regardless of what your WH does. Build yourself and your DD up one day at a time until you are ready to make a decision. It took me 2 years before I believed my WW was who was standing right in front of me and had no intention of even trying to change. It's your life so you get to make the rules so do what's best for you.

As always come here and vent away and i'm sorry you are in pain.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1570 | Registered: May 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DH, listen to 7yrs!

7yrs, I LOVE your post. I am going to copy paste it for myself, because I need to take the advice.

Allgood, I was so sorry when I read your post. Too bad your xWH still can't get it. He lost a wonderful, beautiful, smart, caring person such as yourself and he is an idiot!!

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 9:04 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
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Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Walking and D-heart-

I'm so sorry that your WS do not seem to 'get it'.
They are still wallowing in selfishness and toxic thinking.
They are not showing remorse.

When you read the stories of those that have successfully reconciled after infidelity they always seem to have the same two characteristics: 1)- The WS is extremely remorseful and 2)- The WS is extremely motivated to do whatever it takes to save the marriage.

Blame shifting and complaining about the BS is not the way to make amends for engaging in a long term affair.

In my case I did the 180 immediately after d-day. It wasn't anything that I planned to do.
I had not found SI yet.
I had not read any books yet either.
It was just my knee jerk reaction to d-day.

I kicked my FWH out of the house in an extremely dramatic fashion.
Lots of screaming, lots of throwing of clothes and suitcases down the stairs and out the front door.
I told my FWH to "got to her!" if that was what he wanted.

He was stunned.
It was as if he was just finding out about the LTA for the first time too.
He begged for me to change my mind and take him back.

So...I had evidence of extreme remorse immediately.

But even with that I was so destroyed by the revelation of the LTA that I could not imagine reconciling.

I refused to speak with him and proceeded to meet with divorce lawyers and eventually filed for D.

Meanwhile my FWH continued to plead for another chance and in the mean time he began to work on himself ( IC, AA) and made significant changes .

That was what changed my mind about divorce.

After 6 months I agreed to let him move back home.

I'm not saying that my way is the only way to reconcile but I do see that the 180 and tough love approach is often the only thing that causes the WS to finally wake up and realize that the way they have been living is toxic and that they are about to lose everything because they needed an ego massage.

I recommend: Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson (some Christian references but overall the advice is for everyone).


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryin-
Love Jeff Lewis! he is a riot!
Love his sense of humor and Interior Therapy is great!
I will have to look for that episode.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest-
Sorry that you are struggling.
Don't give up!
You will find happiness again.
But,you have to look within yourself.
Don't depend on others for your joy.
Take a look around every morning at the beauty in the world. There is a lot to live for and a lot that you can give to others.

You have had to endure a lot of hardship in your life.
But you are not to blame for a mother with BPD. She has a personality disorder.There is nothing that you could have done to change that.
Same with the NPD- he has personality disorders and may even be a sociopath with zero conscience.

You are a kind,caring person.
You have been living an authentic life while the NPD has been living a dishonest, toxic life.
He has lost out on a having a relationship with his sons.
He has lost a chance to have a wonderful wife.

Its his loss.

Personally, I think that NPD's despicable actions are playing a big role in your teenager's acting out behavior.
I think that when the NPD is out of your life once and for all you will see a big change in your family dynamic.

You and your boys deserve a happy, peaceful family life-even if that means living in a smaller house etc.

Why do you think that you do not deserve to be happy?
Your sons want to see their mom happy.

Don't let your mother or the NPD define who you are!

You are so much more.You deserve so much more.

You have 4 wonderful sons.
And so much living to do.

Graduations, marriages, grandchildren....new friends, a new job,lots to look forward to.
It's never too late to live happily ever after.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
StillStanding1
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Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DH and Honest, I can truly relate to your posts and wish I was at a point in this process where I could offer some sage advice, like those who are much wiser and more experienced than I.

However, I can read and learn and try to internalize the words of wisdom on these pages. Great advice and lessons learned...

I am working very hard on emotionally detaching so that I can find the strength to let go. It is very hard to give up on hope and give up on love. I wanted nothing more than to keep my family together and enjoy the beautiful happiness that used to be a part of my M.

The advice given others applies to me too. My old H is gone. He's been replaced by someone who I sometimes don't even recognize. I've been trying to wake him up, against all the advice that I can't change him. He's done a lot. We've had some wonderful moments in R (false R?), but it's just not enough. As someone here already said (maybe Jack?), H still has a cheaters mentality. That totally clicked with me. Suddenly I am seeing things differently.

I'm not good at adapting to change. I need to take it a little slow and get myself ready for the rough road ahead. It's really really hard.

Wishing everyone here strength and peace....


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 20 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, MC/IC/FC,
He officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 525 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:46 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((walking))))
((((honest))))
((((still standing))))

it really is hard to see who they are now, and for some its who they always were...

but i can promise you that once you "see" them for who they are you will feel differently...mourn for the loss, for that is exactly what it is....a loss..whether they were always who they are now or they changed....the person you thought he was is no longer in existance...and what makes it hard is that there are so many simlilarities...almost like they were taken over by a pod....you see flashed of who you believe he was and sometimes those flashes are more then flashes....lets not forget they were not always who they present themselves to be now.....and when we see the "old", we forget because we want to forget...we want to believe in the old....but that therein is where the key lies....

we cannot believe in the old...the old is no longer....

in a way i was lucky, pfm showed me the new ugly everyday...so i only had flashes here and there...but everyday he has reminded me why i have chosen the path i chose...for some of you its much harder, the flashes last longer....

the second key: words mean absolutely nothing...actions will speak for themselve...so when they talk, see if they back it up with the appopriate actions....

or make sure that they don't deflect....deflecting is an art that most of our ws's have mastered...

dh an example....when you were done and he came back with the trip for your birthday...he never once had an action that said he wanted to do what it took to make the marriage work.instead he deflected and distracted you from being "done"....he didn't show you his phone, he didn't give you all the passwords...hell he didn't even lie to you when you asked him direct questions....he just didn't answer them and that speaks volumes....

our ws's also have mastered in the art of deflection instilling doubt within us....that at times we question our own "sight", our actions, our choices, our paths....and then we are distracted or sidetracked, sometimes for a moment, sometimes for days or weeks....

so take time and make a list....do the words match the actions....or are you seeing what you want to see as opposed to what really IS there!!!

not sure if i am making sense....think i need to go to bed now...

nite tribe


(((((tribe)))))

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:46 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:02 AM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwant.. I get you...

This?

the second key: words mean absolutely nothing...actions will speak for themselve

IMO, words to mean something.. and it is best to let your actions speak for themselves..

You can talk the talk..
But if you don't walk the walk..
You are a liar.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillStanding, I just wanted to comment on some of your post because I felt the same way and I know others did and do as well.

wish I was at a point in this process where I could offer some sage advice, like those who are much wiser and more experienced than I.
Feel free to chime in at any time. Just because we have been in the crapstorm longer doesn't make us any more experienced that anyone else. What you post may be exactly what someone needs to here that day to help them through. How you handle a situation on any particular day may be exactly what someone needed to help them through a similar situation. Just offering support helps so much. One of the things that helped me WAS actually offering advice to people even when I knew at the time I couldn't take it myself. I was still in limbo and knew what I needed to do but couldn't get there yet. I could however offer that advice to others and after typing it so many times it finally clicked and I could move forward a bit.

I wanted nothing more than to keep my family together and enjoy the beautiful happiness that used to be a part of my M.
I had a huge problem with this one as well. The best way to describe it for me was I felt like at some point I surrendered to my new reality. People describe mourning the loss of the M that about sums it up for me. I accepted that things were never going to be like they were whether we successfully R'd or not. In my mind I tried to say I was moving on to better things. It felt like I was giving up, but I wasn't the one that gave up. My WW did that years ago. I looked at it as actively choosing to move forward again in my life even though I wasn't sure where I was going. At the time, I knew that moving forward couldn't be any worse than staying where I was. I know now I made the right choice but back then it was scary.


I've been trying to wake him up, against all the advice that I can't change him.
I was a fixer or more commonly referred to around here as codepedant. I tried everything to save my M. I was that person that ran as fast as he could trying to find the thing that would wake up my WW. I read book after book, counseling, pleading, begging, going to friends for help, going to the church for help. I didn't realize I was in a hamster wheel going nowhere while my WW did nothing to fix herself. I stopped looking for solutions after a session with my IC. She asks me if I realized that "inaction by itself can be an action". I looked at her kind of crazy and she said no riddles here just think about it. I had been looking for ways to wake my wife up and was burning myself out. Choosing to do nothing was in fact still making a choice. She was helping me to realize that it was okay to stop and do nothing and put the weight on my WW. Fixers tend to put others first trying to resolve issues and never focus that energy on themselves. If I spent even a portion of the energy I put out trying to wake up my wife on myself it would do wonders for me and that was the IC's point. It's the same point we hear around SI all the time. You can only control yourself so I went about fixing again except this time I was fixing me. I could tell anyone else what to do to get or feel better but I had NO CLUE how to do that for me. Talk about a wake up call. I had neglected myself for years and now made it my mission to refocus my energy on myself. I still took some great advice from the good people here along with some timely book suggestions like "Codependant no More" and "Love Must Be tough" to completely break the cycle I was in.

So doing nothing was in fact me letting go of the outcome. I felt like I was in a ship bailing water with my WW pouring more water in. The reality was there was no sinking to the bottom of the ocean because I was in my bathtub. Even if the tub filled with water I could just get out or you know just pull the stopper. So I decided to let go which was the big epiphany for me. It was scary as hell to release control but I truly never had any in the first place with the exception of controlling myself and my own actions. Would my WW step up or not? In my case she didn't. In other's cases their WS's did but in each case each BS had to allow their WS to pull their own weight.

Suddenly I am seeing things differently.
Changing your perception is both painful and needed but things get better regardless of whether you R or head towards D. Both roads are extremely tough.

I'm not good at adapting to change. I need to take it a little slow and get myself ready for the rough road ahead. It's really really hard.
Neither was I. I mean I was horrible at it and still am to an extent. It's small steps and small things that build to big steps and big things over time. I was good at "trying" to force the universe to bend to my will. Took an unremorseful WW and 2 years of running into a brick wall over and over and over for me to finally let go and understand that I was not really controlling things but more like I had neglected myself for years. So it was time to focus on me and I did. You will be amazed at what rediscovering yourself and what you actually like and love about life will do for you. It is a struggle but for me it was worth it and I ge the added benefit of becoming a whole person again and learning some life lessons that I can apply to future relationships. I turned my toolkit in no more fixing for me, I do still keep a wrench though because someone has to fix the toilets.

Post became more of a ramble but this is a good example stillstanding of your post helping me pull some stuff out of me that I needed to say. I've had a rough few weeks dealing with loneliness and accepting that I am not ready for a relationship even though I really want one. Means I need to start putting some more time into myself because I still have some anger that I tried to ignore and most of it is directed at myself. I have come a long way so I will cut myself some slack and keep moving forward. Sometimes you just have to get stuff out. I wish you all the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:47 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1570 | Registered: May 2011
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs, thanks so much for your insights. Like you, I often find that writing out my thoughts helps me sort through them and understand myself better.

Everything you say is so true. I definitely think I have co-dependancy issues and need to do more reading in this area. My book pile is crazy. Spent my initial effort with books like 5LLs, 7 Principles, How to Help Your Spouse, After the Affair, and am finishing NJF now. Want to finish "Parents Who Cheat" to try to help my kids with their trauma (2 oldest discovered the A 6 months before me and DD confronted WH last September). I've got a lot of fixing to do, mostly on myself!!!!

I appreciate the words of encouragement. After his crazy statements 10 days ago, I think I finally snapped. I am taking small steps to detach and move forward. I just set up a meeting with a D friend so that I can get some advice on a good attorney. (This in itself feels huge to me.)

I am grateful he is in TX for a few days for work... not having him local is actually a relief while I try to sort myself out. I have IC tomorrow morning. I sure need it!!!!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 20 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, MC/IC/FC,
He officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 525 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

damn 7years.. that was a good one...

Me..

The only thing I fix is myself.. then my good will come. And there is a whole lot to that...

I don't need my wife for happiness.. She is welcome to join me in my journey.. if she chooses not too.. then that is her choice... I wish you well.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just because we have been in the crapstorm longer doesn't make us any more experienced that anyone else. What you post may be exactly what someone needs to here that day to help them through. How you handle a situation on any particular day may be exactly what someone needed to help them through a similar situation

7yrs: Your whole post was what I really needed to hear today.
Thank you!!
It was fantastic!

I've held on far too long. For years I knew what I had to do, but somehow just couldn't do it. I'd "see" the reality, knew what I should do, and then hide my head in the sand again.

You are right, not doing anything is a decision too. Sometimes it's the right thing because you need time. I remember a political science professor saying, "Apathy is a form of consent", is like doing nothing is allowing the staus quo to continue. Not that I was apathetic, lol, but just doing nothing is a decision too.

Stillstanding: keep posting. Just as 7yrs said in his wonderful post, anything you may say may help someone else. We are all here to help each other, even if it's support, or a virtual hug.

What tryn and Miracle are saying about words and actions is so true. NPD is full of words, very charming. Sent me flowers. But this is not what is needed. Just things for show.

He has the cheater's mentality and will never change. Ever.

7yrs, you made a point that has hit home to me: that even if he started to do the things he should, things have changed so dramatically, that I don't know if we could ever truly R. The OC's are there no matter what. He was actively looking for OW #2 but that one got engaged to someone else.

I'm paralyzed with fear for finances.

There was soooooo very much to take in in my case that I almost had a nervouse breakdown and took so long to process it.

A wonderful friend who is also on SI pointed out to me that we wanted partners, someone to share our life with. We thought we had that with our WS. For me, NPD did a lot of the trappings of a partner since DDay, which is more than I ever had with anyone in my life that even the crumbs seemed better than nothing. I would get words, words, words.And like DH's WH, if I pushed for more or asked for more, I got emotional abuse.

I am trying to find myself again. Lol, did make a step again by picking up my guitar to play "Classical Gas". I'm not a performer, but liked to play for myself.

Change is hard. It's scary. I've lost so very much already. I really have lost my house overseas and didn't want to lose my house here. I've given him too much money which I fear I'll never get back. I was hoping that by hanging on, I might get it back, but as my IC pointed out the other day, NPD has no incentive to pay me back and I have no legal recourse.....(long convoluted story)

Ok, I'm the one who is rambling now. Thanks for listening.


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