Does your SAWH discuss personal issues with this woman? If so, he needs to recognize that it isn't appropriate. Having poor boundaries with women is a hallmark of SA. Just don't be surprised that he hasn't gotten that yet. He isn't very far along in recovery. Mine has still had small slips with this in the last year. He seems to finally "get it" about this issue.
And the other issue, of course, is the financial angle. He is reluctant to give up a money losing business. That's the "big-shot" aspect of SA. And maybe of insecure people (men) in general. I understand this, but this woman is draining financial resources that should be going to YOUR family. Sure, it's sad that she is struggling, aren't you? If she is that talented, cut her loose and let her find another company to work for, she shouldn't be operating on YOUR food money...which I'm betting, at this point is coming from YOUR paycheck...
Have you thought of a post-nup that would absolve you of the financial burden of any debt from the business? I have little or no legal knowledge, but I would not want to be responsible for that debt under these circumstances...
WIF- YES!! I would call to hell & back definitely enough!
Sadone - if I could only make him see that as clearly as everyone else.
Missy- you always have the right words & thanks for the reality check about the apparently, painfully slow rate recovery can take.
And SK -as usual, you make perfect sense. I have tried every angle to help him see what a mistake it is to hold on to this albatross but, he can't see letting it go for a multitude of reasons. I suspect it is the "Big Man" syndrome but, even so, would inflict a mortal wound to that all important ego which I fear would cause that monster to rear it's ugly head.
So round & round & round we go. Where we stop, no one knows! Ugh! I'm just trying to lay low until I can see his IC on the 16th.
We leave tomorrow for our annual beach trip with our children & all the grands. I'm going to try very hard to lay it all aside for a while & enjoy my time with those that bring some sunshine to my life. It will all still be here when I get home & it looks like I will have more time than I want to think about to deal with it!
I'm glad things are turning into a positive direction, but I still have bad days and SAWH is a real jerk about it. Tells me I'm the type of person who wants to exact revenge, that I would probably only be happy if he were suicidal. What I really want is for him to verbally acknowledge a few times a week how hard this is for me, and how sorry he is that he has put me and his family through this. He fails to acknowledge that I have been alone in this marriage for longer than the affair and I know it's because of the SA (hasn't touched me in over 7 years and I just kept making excuse after excuse for him - I'm pregnant, he's stressed out from work, he's got low testosterone, he's depressed, he's on Rx for depression, etc. I feel so alone. I don't know what to do. I don't know how much longer I can hold on. I'm tired of him telling me that it's not been a picnic for him either. Well I think he had quite a picnic for over two year with a certain 28 yo woman.
This is the reason we tell you to work on your own recovery and DETACH from his and from him. To set boundaries that protect YOU. He will either work the program or he won't. As hard as it is, only you can decide whether or not to stay around.
There CAN be big changes in someone who really works the program. And I can tell you that I never expected my SAfWH to stick with it. He certainly wasn't a fast learner, and he didn't work as fast as I think he should have. But I gave that up as something I had no power over. I can tell you he is a different person. I can't tell you that we have a great marriage. Companionship, yes. But I am still dealing with my continuing resentments...
YOU have to be primary in your mind. But I can tell you that it may take a long time for you to be primary in his. It will take a long time to undo a lifetime of selfishness.
I'm by no means an expert here but, it gives me really bad vibes that your H even suggest that you would exact some kind of revenge. I know certain thoughts have definitely passed thru my mind many times but they are dismissed quickly as I know that kind of thinking is pure sabotage. But, it feels sweet for the moment doesn't it?
I hate to admit defeat but, I finally caved & saw my MD last week. Started taking AD with anti anxiety meds as needed. I've been surprised at the difference it has made. I know it's a temporary fix but, I have to say that it has been a much needed vacation for my mind. I already feel like the last four months have aged me yet another 10 years!
WIF- I can't remember if this is your first rodeo or not. Just be careful & move slow. The best advice I read on here way back when my nightmare started was to be prepared for more than what you have been told. They were so right! H admitted to seeing one hooker twice. We are now up to at least 15 different women. Some for sex and some just for BJs.
It's a bitter pill to swallow & I am carefully weighing my options at this point. I'm pretty sure I will know by the end of this year if I will want to invest anything more in this relationship. I've been in the vortex of this storm so long I didn't even realize the danger it was in. Life has been so crazy for so long it seemed normal. But, not anymore. The madness ends with me!
I do hope you at least get some clarity with MC. It might not be what you are hoping for but, the information you get, good or bad, will become your tools for repairing yourself. I think it's hard to focus on yourself after a lifetime of putting others first but, I'm learning & it feels awkward but pretty good in a way. Right now, it's all about me!!
[This message edited by outtanowhere at 10:34 AM, July 8th (Monday)]
I guess no matter how the WS responds, it still sucks for us, doesn't it? My H is super remorseful, tells me how sorry he is all the time and takes time whenever I need to talk. Even with all that, most days I wonder if it would be easier if he just wanted move on. He's trying to hold on so tight and because I'm so codependent, I have no idea if I'm holding on right back because I want to or if it's because I feel obligated to. In a twisted way, I'm scared to hurt him right now. My IC has said this is definitely incorrect thinking, but I have no idea how to change!
Outta, congrats on getting meds and feeling better! I just got off AD's before DDay after being on them for years for post partum depression. I've resisted going back on. I think it's more of a 'f-you, you're going to deal with my moods' to H. Probably not a healthy way to be! I think I'll probably cave soon and at least get anti-anxiety meds.
WIF - I'm so sorry...my SAWH does empathize with me but he's also had ALOT of therapy, fallen off the wagon and is back to square one 5 years later. So with time, and a program, yours may get there for you, but only if he does it himself. I'm just so sorry that any of us have to go through this nightmare.
Outta - I'm with everyone else...the girl at work needs to go - you, your family and your finances should come first. and yeah for the meds! I am still not sleeping a wink...I am having mostly ok days but at night - my brain just will not stop with the movies and the women. I pray everynight for sleep. I'm a little scared of the addictiveness of ADs or anxiety meds but I also realize I might need some help. Still debating all this.
So holiday weekend was mostly great family activities which I am still so resentful that he even gets to participate in. I lost it one night (middle of the night - cant' sleep - woke his butt up). Why can I get through life with doing the right thing almost all the time and let myself get stuck with a man who does the wrong thing almost all the time!! and yet, I'm the one who suffers and cries and can't sleep and he sleeps like a baby now that he's "sober" and gets to enjoy our awesome house and boat and fun times with friends and family. It's just a bunch of crap sandwich that I'm eating that he doesn't have to. I'm whining...I know. I'm going to work with a therapist on this.
He's also short with the kids and moody right now, which is not like him at all - and I know it's some form of withdrawal and it just stinks all around. However, I'm grateful that he's apologizing to us right after and calling his sponsor and going to meetings so doing all the "right" things and now 20 days plus sober.
The celexa worked well, but I didn't like the side effects, dry mouth, and weight gain. I switched to St. John's Wort, realizing that it is still a drug, albeit an herbal one. It has been as effective as celexa with fewer side effects, and I don't take any other meds or have any other conditions that preclude it's use. And I have checked it out with my PCP. She's not thrilled but accepts my use of it and has monitored it.
Outta, good for you with the meds. And the more I have thought about your situation the more I see that for you the year time can be both about decisionmaking and about getting your ducks in a row. I don't recall your age but some communities have nice(!) subsidized "senior" housing with lengthy waitlists you may want to look into. It isn't a decision but just preparing yourself to have the freedom to make a decision either way.
Sadone, I am just as shell-shocked as you are about the "trying other people" thing. That perhaps more than the inability to restrain from masturbation suggests to me very deep-seated problems. So sorry you had to even hear that!! Blechl
As for me, vacation is up and down. It was supposed to be a very special trip for my 40th birthday and parts have been wonderful -- like friends and family visiting. But I really want to go back in time and get my marriage back. It seems like very few days go by where me, the H, or both of us aren't in tears over our new life.
We are on vaycay this week too. H is being very attentive & going out of his way to accommodate everyone which is SO not like him! It's pretty awkward as well since we have not told our children so for everyone except us, it's just a routine vacation.
I don't know what has happened with our employee situation however, she hasn't called in a couple of days now. Really haven't had a chance to talk to H & really don't want to now at the risk of spoiling my day! I do plan to address it again after I see his IC on the 16th.
Wishing each & everyone of you a peaceful spirit today as we navigate these uncharted waters.
He told me another gem this week. I told him that I still have no faith that he would turn down a girl if she came onto him. He told me that if someone had approached him before DDay, the only reason he would have turned her down would be because of fear stemming from his low self esteem. Looks like I wouldn't have been a factor in the decision.
Very tired of this crazy train today.
Hopefully, someone who has been down the correct path will post soon and help you out. In the meantime, hugs, and I am holding you in the *LIGHT*
Background: I filed for D a couple of weeks ago. SAWH is sleeping downstairs and we are basically doing in-house separation. After a year of inaction, he has done a couple of things I asked, but it took me filing for D for him to do it. (He just did STD testing and saw a CSAT). So, I am very leery that he will actually get into true recovery.
I don't know your full story, but other questions you could ask if you are new to this are:
-what is the process? (90 day abstinence, 12 step program, his disclosure, your impact letter, polygraph?)
-will you be at SAWH's appts? If not, will you be able to discuss/clarify things with his CSAT? SAs will frequently hear things differently than they were meant or selectively hear what they want to hear, so you will need to clarify with his CSAT when necessary. Your WH will need to sign a form to allow you to speak to his CSAT.
-Are there any SA women's groups that you can join? If not (or in addition to) COSA or any other group for you. My women's group (run by a CSAT) has been so empowering, educational and soul-soothing for me; I highly reocmmend getting into some kind of group.
That's all I can think of for now - good luck!
Hugs to all SA spouses - I read often and am holding you all in the LIGHT.
I have been having computer issues and still havent gotten a new laptop so I havent logged in regularly in a while and not with enough time to post. I think of you all often.
I wanted to chime in quickly, that I would love to do the phone conference. Just let me know when. Can someone please pm me the details if this has already been figured out?
This stuck in my head-
I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell Iím living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream I dreamed
The thread is kind of quiet. Hope that means everyone is busy and doing ok! Not that they are doing poorly and don't want to post, LOL.
Things have been pretty good here. Feeling like we are in a bit of a plateau. This has happened many times. It isn't unpleasant, things are going fine. I just want more connection. Having a nice time, spending lots of time with friends and family. Think I need a date night!
Missymomma, hope it is a peaceful plateau with a date night soon to come!
As for me, vacation was very helpful. It was not always easy. As I mentioned week away gave me some time to reset myself and heal further. When my H arrived we hashed through some very difficult talks -- practically daily while our kids napped. Lots of tears and grieving. We also had some time for fun stuff and a date night. I feel like we are so much more connected, H is really there for me emotionally and practically in a way that he never was. Also, I don't know if it is HB or love (or both), but our intimate life has not only recovered it is much, much better than it ever was. There is a real intimacy there now and I know it is one way H tries to show me his love and regret -- and H is no longer numb from porn and I think it is practically like losing his virginity again in terms of his wonder. We send love texts to each other during the day. :)
I am cautiously optimistic. He maintained his sobriety the whole time I was gone (albeit with one night where he had to call his fellowship when he had insomnia). He is doing so well in therapy and thankfully I don't think he ever had the more severe levels of cognitive distortions - - he was pretty quick to recognize how f'd up his thinking has been.
As for me, I feel able to focus on work again and less sad generally. I thought about it during vacation and I don't think I have any lasting effects of trauma. I just don't feel it and I don't see it in the descriptions I read (though I think the first few days upon discovery of the SA I was in trauma). Anyway, I was extremely lucky in that as best as I, therapist, and sponsor can tell H disclosed almost everything up front, did not retraumatize me again and again with trickle truth. And I am very fortunate that my longtime character flaws of too much planning and pro-activeness (reactiveness) not to mention my job always prevented any prolonged feelings of helplessness. So, counting my blessings today and wanted to share with all of you as I have certainly rained down complaints and misery for months here!
[This message edited by cds22 at 1:22 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)]