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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-11
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello ladies. Please excuse me for thread jacking for a moment during my mini-crisis. I am going to do what I call Disclosure Part Two tomorrow evening. I wasn't asked to formulate anything for it, just to be there, and ask any questions I have. But I felt *I* needed to say something, and it always works out better if I have a draft on hand.

So here is a draft of what I will say after he has admitted what he omitted in previous disclosure(s) and answered my questions. I am assuming my questions will bring out more he hasn't thought about adding to the disclosure, will modify what I say on the fly if not. I am having trouble with the italicized part, because it sounds so codep-y but I still need to hear him say it. I need some guidance on whether to keep it in, modify it, etc. Gah.

I recognize that this was a difficult thing for you to do. And I appreciated what you have done today. However, it is my turn to tell you how this has affected me.

I am filled with anger, hate, and regret right now. I am so very terribly disappointed and sad.

I wish I could tell you we have been through worse, we can get through this. But honestly I am tired of being the cheerleader for this runaway train wreck.

I wish I didn't have to look myself in the mirror every day for the last two years and remind myself, you still don't know the whole story. You still aren't in a marriage with a man who has proven he is "all in" and will do whatever it takes to make it right. When is enough, enough?

I wish you came clean to me the first time. The second time. ANY TIME. I wish you hadn't lied to be for more than 15 years. I wish you hadn't lied to me, to my face when asked directly about this stuff, less than a year ago. I wish I could believe that you have now finally told me everything, EIGHT months after failing the lie detector test. I wish that I was not filled with even more questions.

You KNEW how much it would hurt me to continue to lie, yet you did it anyway.

You KNEW how much it would hurt me to create new lies, yet you did it anyway.

You KNEW what you needed to do to make me feel safe, to allow me to consider to stay, to allow me to heal and to recover yourself. Yet for more than two years, after being directly confronted and having it all clearly spelled out for you, given all the support you could ever need and frankly did not deserve, you chose not to. You were willing to risk losing everything rather than be fully honest with me. And I can't be sure you still don't feel that way.

As long as there are secrets, as long as there are lies, you will not succeed in recovery.

As long as there are secrets, as long as there are lies, you will not pass a lie detector test.

As long as there are secrets, as long as there are lies, you will lose everything - not just me - everything. It is not a threat, it is not a promise, it is reality and quite honestly will have nothing to do with me. I really hope there are no more secrets and lies.

I am not discounting the progress you have had and the efforts you have made thus far. I do appreciate those. However I don't appreciate how long it took for you to get here.

You didn't ask, which is another problem in itself, but this is what I need from you now. I know you have trouble with admitting in full the truth, but I need to hear it come out of your mouth. I need you to read this to me (italics):

"I cheated on my wife for more than 15 years, even before we were married. I lied to her and told her it was more than 10 times less than it was when I was caught. I continued to string her along and pretend to get into counseling, but never really did and skipped every chance I got. I never really met any of the requirements she had to consider staying for nearly a year. Told myself if she knew everything, she'd leave anyway because there is nothing I can do to make it up to her, so why bother?

Somehow, I felt enough guilt to eventually confess the majority of my sins, including not maintaining my sobriety and thought that would be enough. But I was busted with a lie detector test and still continued to lie, to marginally work on therapy and minimally meet her requirements. It's been eight months since the lie detector test and I still haven't really faced the music.

I go to meetings and therapy, but I don't do the work. I try to be present, be helpful, be loving and supportive at home, but I don't truly discuss what I can do to save our marriage and help her heal, let alone what I need to do to be fully in recovery. I just stick my head in the sand and hope that somehow she will be able to get over it and we can pretend it never happened. But that's not possible, and I know I have to change. And that is why I am here.

I accept my life is out of my control and has been for some time. As a result I have not only severely damaged myself, but my family.
I accept there is a force bigger than me that can help me through this. This force works through therapy and 12 step meetings.
I accept and trust that therapy and 12 step meetings will show me the way to remedy my life and repair what I have done.
I will account for everything I have done that has brought me here, and I will share it wholly and fully with my therapist and sponsor.
There will be no more lies and secrets. With that, I will be ready to surrender the truth to my recovery and trust it will make me a whole person again.
This will allow me to face all the people I have hurt and make amends for what I can.
And I accept that recovery is an ongoing process, that I will continue to face what I have done and what I do, and trust that believing in and following through the process will keep me safe and others safe from my actions."

(and then I continue)
I wish I could say I know you have said something like that on your own. I wish I could say I know you believe that. But right now I don't know I can't believe anything you say. Time and your actions will tell me if I can.

You have a lot of work ahead of you. I hope you do it. It is quite literally your last chance. I have always loved you, but I also love myself and won't let you take me down with you if you do not choose the right path. (end)

Ugh, what sack of suck I am right now. Boo.



BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
Schilling
♀ Member
Member # 39774
Question  Posted: 2:42 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Working on re-writes and additions, I found the advice really helpful, please keep it coming.

Reconciliation – We are trying to reconcile this relationship. Please take 10 extra seconds, and think about what you say to me. Be supportive of this relationship. Don’t say things that are negative to our future or us. Example: “I hope you pass this on your children, even if it isn’t with me”. I understand it sounds harmless, but it’s not. A statement like “I hope we pass this on to our future children.” Is loving and supportive of this relationship.

Boundaries
- Touching: This can’t happen. You need to take a step back and see things through my eyes. Think to yourself “Would I do this if Schilling was here?” chances are you wouldn’t and that means, you shouldn’t do it if I am there or not. A hand on the hip of a female friend is not OK. An aggressive kiss on the cheek while she is holding your hand playfully is not OK. This bothers me and makes me uncomfortable. While I UNDERSTAND it was harmless, drunken fun, it just shouldn’t be happening. Women are a slippery slope for you, and it is my hope that you keep ALL women at a respectful distance. Please respect our relationship and me.
- Photos Received: If a woman sends you a photo of her that isn’t appropriate, please tell her that you are a taken man and you don’t appreciate these photos being sent to you. If you aren’t sure if the photo is appropriate or not, please show it to me and we can discuss it. Women should not be sending photos of themselves to you in dresses or skimpy clothes, no nude photos either. It is disrespectful to me and to this relationship; it doesn’t make me feel comfortable.
- Female Friends: Despite what you constantly say, I do not want to hold you back from your female friends. I want you to enjoy your time with your friends, male and female alike. But I want to be comfortable with these relationships.
Sexting/ Sex/ Oral/ Vaginal/ Anal/ Sexual Touching/ Hand Jobs/ Cuddling etc: NOT OK. I WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS ANY LONGER.

Social Media/ Email/ Phone –
- Facebook: I need you to change your Facebook status. This REALLY bothers me. You say it’s stupid and trivial, GREAT, I am accepting of the fact that it doesn’t bother you, but it bothers me so please change it to “In a Relationship with ___ ____”. “It’s Complicated” is not acceptable to me and makes me feel like you are letting the women in your life know things are so-so and they might have a chance. I’ve always felt like my only defense against the women in your world is your Facebook page. The last time I was harassed by a woman you were screwing with was on Facebook. I’ve explained this to you a million times, and I am now telling you I NEED THIS FROM YOU!
You need to block ____ from your FB entirely. I’d like your Facebook Password.
I want you to have my Facebook word as well.
- Email: You said to me that you’d give them to me, but you’d just make another one. I don’t know what to do with this information and it doesn’t make me feel safe in our relationship. Lets discuss this.
- Phone: I’d like to have access to your cell phone whenever I feel the need. This usually happens because I am suspicious of something you are doing or have been triggered by something around me. When his happens I desperately need comfort and validation and proof that you are trying.

Transparency – I know we don’t see eye to eye on this. But it is becoming an issue. I’ve tried to be the bigger person and give in and respect your need to hide things from me, but I am struggling really badly with this. I didn’t make the mistakes; I shouldn’t have to give in. You gave up your right to privacy when you cheated and every time you cheated. Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing. I am an open book to you and I will HAPPILY reciprocate all transparency without hesitation. People, who have nothing to hide, don’t hide things from people they have betrayed. You should want to prove to me that you are trying, that you are fighting for this relationship, that you WANT this to work and are willing to do whatever it takes. The way you hide things from me, makes me constantly feel like there are more lies, like there are more secrets, as if I’ve been given only half-truths. I don’t want to live our life like this forever, but right now, this is what I need from you. The trust can be earned back, but right now, there is just so little trust, and I can’t continue to give you blind faith, because look where it has gotten us. I need more transparency from you.

Individual Therapy – You need to go to solo therapy. I need you to be serious, to commit to the process, to commit to change, to WANT to change, to want to be a better person for yourself. I need you to take control of this and seek the help, schedule the appointments and deal with the insurance on your own. You said you would, you baby stepped the start of the process by contacting your insurance company, and then you stalled out. When I bring it up, you say you want to go, yet I see NOTHING from you that would suggest you want to attend therapy. I understand you are busy.. so am I, this should be a priority. You have until ___ to be in therapy.

Couples Therapy – You said you thought couples therapy was helping, but I don’t agree. The last session was too much for me. You were rude and arrogant. If you want to try again for couple’s therapy, you need to be willing to open up and let the process work.

Staying in Touch – Thank you for this. You have made an effort without being asked. When you go out, you stay in contact with me and that helps. I cannot express how much it helps me. My heart jumps when I know you are out drinking, but what calm’s my fear are your texts, photos and phone calls. This is an amazing thing that you do on your own, and I don’t thank you enough for it. Please know that I am grateful and appreciative of this. It is something I need to make me feel safe, and it is something you are giving me. THANK YOU for checking yourself in to place on FaceBook when you go out. This also makes me feel safer and more secure when I am struggling.


When I Trigger/ Am Upset/ Feeling Unsafe/ Emotional:
- What I Need:
1) I want you to sit there with me while I cry, rant, vent and rave.
2) Hold My Hand, Hug Me, Touch Me.
3) I want you to support me, validate my feelings, and tell me you understand.
4) I want you to apologize.
5) I want you to stay with me, not leave, not detach, I need you in the present with me. You gave me plenty of “space” when you were with these other women, now I need you here with me fully.
6) A meaningful I Love You.
- What I Don’t Need:
1) You to look upset, annoyed or bothered.
2) Pull Away Physically and Stop Touching Me.
3) You to say anything defensive.
4) Asking if I want space. You gave me plenty of space as said above. If I need space I will ask for it, otherwise, I need you fully present with me.
5) Asking things like “Don’t you see I am trying?” yes, of course I do, but this is about me right now, not you and at this moment, when I am suffering, I cannot focus on soothing your feelings. Later on, at a different moment I will happily support you in how you are feeling.
6) No general statements you’ve told everyone else.
7) Don’t say “You know I only want you”. Because no, I don’t know that.
(The above was inspired by a post someone made, though I can't recall who or where it was)

[This message edited by Schilling at 2:51 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]


I am 26(Bgf). He is 36 (Wbf).
On Again, Off Again - 10 years.
Not Married. No Kids.
D-Day: Too many to list/ remember.
Trying to Reconcile.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: San Francisco
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath - Oh, honey I am so sorry. This is sucky! What you are kind of writing is an impact letter. Can your IC help you with this? It is written about in Stephanie Carnes new workbook. From my understanding, it can be read at a meeting done after the disclosure. Not at the disclosure itself but many people do it the following day or week. I still haven't written mine and the further out I get, the less likely it is I will do it.

Will your IC be there to support you? Really, when I look back at the things done incorrectly around disclosure for us it makes me really angry. Hopefully this will be healing for you. I was angry for a couple of months after the 2nd disclosure, even though I had found everything out a couple of months before. It is so crappy that they drag it out and don't tell the whole truth.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Schilling - That is very well written. The problem I would have had with my SAWH before recovery is that he would not have finished it. Could you condense it a little? Getting an SA to focus on what their partner needs is phenomenally hard. I respect your right to say all of these things. It probably will not change his behavior unless he gets into IC and goes to meetings.

[This message edited by Missymomma at 5:57 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

missy, I did an impact letter at the first (formal) disclosure. My last meeting with my csat, she brought up we needed to do the second disclosure immediately because sawh was dragging his feet, it was making me physically ill, and because of family visits and school it would be months otherwise to schedule it. So I said we will do it next week at his csat visit (and my csat is there too), and asked how the format was different and if I needed to do anything.

Basically she said he would reveal only new info as to not traumatize me again with old, and I should take notes and write ?s as I go. That he would be required to answer them like last time. I was fine with that at our meeting.

Since then I have changed my mind. He should not get to vomit all his shit on me and then feel better he finally came clean. He should face what he has done and what it did to me. In many ways it feels worse being lied to a second time, if you know what I mean, and he should have to hear a second impact letter. But the meeting being tomorrow, I dont have time to confer with my csat and she would let me read it anyway. And as I said due to schedules no opportunity for joint meetings for months, so now or never.

I am trying to figure out if the italics should be left in for him to read, Edited for me to read, or left out. Part of me needs to hear him say it in the presence of others, lart of me says no its too codep, part of me says it is too long with the italics and she be left out so the rest will have maximum impact.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 6:45 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you on dragging their feet! My CSAT said in her experience, the worse they drag their feet, the more they have been hiding. That was true in our case. Once I knew everything he very quickly did the 2nd disclosure.

Are you doing a poly right after disclosure? Could you email your CSAT a draft? I really don't know what to tell you, from everything I have read this would be highly unusual. I totally support your right to read it, I just have no idea in which direction to point you. We did the writing and asking questions both times. The first time we were going to meet the next week for impact but I didn't believe he told the truth in disclosure, so we didn't. Second time I was more concerned with getting the poly done.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath,

I always listen closely to what you have to say since you are one of the few veterans here. I see on your profile that you have been dealing with this for a couple of years now & I have to tell you that what you are going thru is my worst nightmare. I'm terrified of learning about "omissions" after this much time which has been close to 6 months for me. I'm almost certain that I don't know the full scope of my H's SA acting out activities for the past 20 years & to learn more at this point I think it would be the crushing blow that would end the marriage for me. I know that its important that I have all the facts & certainly would have appreciated that up front but, I got almost 2 months of TT before he disclosed what he says is the whole truth & that was agonizing. It truly terrifies me that I may have to endure yet another truth at this point. I simply don't think that I would be able to even consider staying in the marriage if that happens.

I read your post twice & feel it is very well written. I have those needs too but, I had not realized it until I read your letter. I think you speak for the needs all of us as the wives of SAs. I need my H to understand the gravity of how this addiction has impacted our lives but, even tho he is doing the work, I don't think it has really clicked yet. I think he is still a good ways off from being able to get his head around how it has permanently altered me.

Our attempt to R has brought many needed changes for us. We have been more considerate of each other & more expressive of our most important needs. But, sometimes I fear that with all thus good things that have come about directly as a result of his SA I fear that he has rationalized that it was a good thing all in all. In fact, I've heard him imply that in MC. I was so flabbergasted that I didn't try to correct that notion right then. While H's thinking is still somewhat distorted it is much improved. I don't know really know what to expect as far as how long it typically takes for that to resolve or even if it ever does completely.

In my eyes, the women on this forum are my heros. Especially the ones who have moved mountains to support their SA all while learning to put their own lives into a new perspective. Hath, you are one of that number. I have gained much insight to many things in reading posts from you & missymomma. I feel connected to you thru this iPad even tho I've never met you & you have helped me to find some peace in the midst of the chaos that us my life right now.

I think what you wrote is perfect. It came from your heart and is perfectly reasonable & logical. Don't get too bogged down in the appearance of co-dependency. I think that anyone who was taught to be thoughtful of others (which I believe to be a good thing in and of itself) runs the risk of wearing that label.

It seems you have been to hell and back as have several others here but, your strength grows more & more. I'm thankful for your example in helping me understand my own issues & seeing the best way to face them head on.

Hugs to everyone! Hoping we all can find that peace in our lives that we so desperately crave right now!

[This message edited by outtanowhere at 9:14 AM, August 2nd (Friday)]


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 36 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell

Posts: 492 | Registered: Apr 2013
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks ladies. I think I am going to separate out the italics in a different document and edit the rest slightly to stand on its own. Then I will wait and see what he says tonight. It's possible he was told to write and read something similar to the italics part as part of his disclosure and I won't need it. But I will have it if I need him to read it. Still feel strongly about the rest being read regardless.

I appreciate the support. I don't know that I am all that strong, just incredibly obstinate. Sadly, what I consider my worst case scenario are the reality of several SI veterans before me when I was the newbie. They did much of what I did, still had to D their SAWH anyway due to his refusing recovery and untreated mental illness, and are living the nightmare of highly contested D and custody battles while essentially trying to be a single parent in every aspect while all their sanity and finances are being drained away. Luckily that is not the case with the majority of veterans I have met here and IRL, so I still have hope, but it's important for me to remember that it could be a possibility.

I'm sorry I am not a ray of sunshine today. I don't want to bring the newbies down, but I also don't want to sheild any truth.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
HURTAGAIN1981
♀ Member
Member # 35178
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all.

Would like some advice please if I could. I'm not very well versed with sex addiction as of yet but many people here have told me that it is what I am(was)dealing with. So I'll just keep it brief and see if it fits the profile..

In no particular order...

1. He told me he didn't watch porn at all, later admitted to having a collection of between 700-1000 videos

2. Very emotionless sex which I believe may go hand in hand with his NPD.

3. He told me that normal bj's (sorry if tmi) doesn't do anything for him

4. He is very into face f**king (sorry again) and once made his ex vomit and he liked it, dominance and degrading women during sex.

5. Wanted me to pee in his mouth and wanted to pee on me

6. Wanted me to wear a butt plug when out drinking in preparation

7. Offered to pay for a boob job for me


Pretty much all I can think of right now. Sorry for the vulgarity of it all.


Posts: 296 | Registered: Mar 2012
Schilling
♀ Member
Member # 39774
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like every day has been a bad day for me recently. Last month was terrible, and I can't seem to shake it.


I am 26(Bgf). He is 36 (Wbf).
On Again, Off Again - 10 years.
Not Married. No Kids.
D-Day: Too many to list/ remember.
Trying to Reconcile.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: San Francisco
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath, what a blow. I am so upset for you and sending you lots of virtual strength and support. How long ago was he first disclosure? For some reason I thought your H had been in recovery for several years now - - if so how even more wretched to have this come out now.

What are your boundaries regarding lies/trickle truth? No need to declare them here but I think that that might be the first place I would mentally return to in order to reinsert some order and calm in my life. For me personally, like outtanowhere, the trickletruth stuff is one of my top issues - - yet cognitively I know that the truth often comes out in a few bursts across recovery. What scares me is that acc to our addiction trained marital therapist it is mainly the trickle truth and constant "re-traumatizing" that causes the damage to the spouse and the ptsd. You need to safeguard your mental health first and foremost. I feel that I am intact and not traumatized in any lasting way from my experience in large part because there was extremely little trickle (to date, we never know anything for sure anymore :( ). For whatever reason, I have always been fierce in the protection of my own mental health -- as I have told my H, I have lived through an incredible amount and there is no way this bullsh*t is going to be the thing that takes me down! Do you/CSAT/Polygrapher/whomever have any sense that you are at the end of the trickle truth? I don't want your psyche to wind up the collateral damage here.

Hurtagain, if you go to the first page of this thread there is a list of resources and info. My H went to a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist) and she interviewed him and gave him an enormous battery of questions. At 1000 porn videos I would suspect SA though!

Schilling, I agree it is very well written and thoughtful. So you are not disappointed keep in mind that when someone is in the throes of addiction it is like trying to reason with a maniac! And be sure to apply your perceptiveness and thoughtfulness to how to take care of you short-term (therapy, self-care etc) and long-term (plans for living independently, work, starting now to broaden and deepen your social network outside of your partner). Honestly, Schilling, I am a little biased in your case -- you are so young, you don't have kids to consider, he is not in recovery and it sounds like you have had many rocky years with him already that may have scraped away at your self-esteem. There are so many adventures ahead of you! This SA business is a very tough road to plow even when the partner is fully committed to recovery . . .

[This message edited by cds22 at 12:57 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


Posts: 209 | Registered: Apr 2013
Schilling
♀ Member
Member # 39774
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This.. whatever it is I am writing.. letter for lack of a better term, is sort of my last chance for him. I know I can't keep doing this if he can't commit to change.

I treat him with kid gloves. I am gentle in my approach and I often keep the pain he has caused me behind a brick wall as to not upset his unstable moods. But I can't do it anymore.

I've got a good job.. youngest in my field, I live a lone with my dog and my fish. I have a few friends here, who are outside of him, but not many. I've been in IC every week since Mid-December 2012. I've got a solid savings account and no longer rely on him for money.. actually I make more then he does now. I feel like I've established a life i am happy with.. outside of him. We talk about moving in together again and giving it another try, but I usually retreat from the topic quickly. I can't commit to that again if he can't commit to change.

The last two months have been a ROLLERCOASTER for me. Before a few months ago I would have laughed at you if you told me I was giving him a real blunt list of my needs. I don't know where or why it all changed so fast inside of me, but it did.

I'm tired of feeling unsafe in my relationship. I'm tired of walking on egg shells for him. I am tired of not having a future to dream about.

Right now, I am just trying to get up the courage to confront him with this.

I understand a lot of people are bias towards situations like mine, and I appreciate the respect I have found here. This thread has given me a lot of light and has made me feel much less a lone. Sometimes I am truly dumbfounded by the similarities.

Someone posted a song on my other post in General and it.. took me breath away.

Forever & Almost Always -Kate Voegele

[This message edited by Schilling at 2:35 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


I am 26(Bgf). He is 36 (Wbf).
On Again, Off Again - 10 years.
Not Married. No Kids.
D-Day: Too many to list/ remember.
Trying to Reconcile.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: San Francisco
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So for newbie reference sake, and to spare you from reading the 15+ page thread in JFO that outlines my story, I will summarize my timeline. Because I realize now out of context everything I am posting is super confusing.

June 2011, DD. Found evidence of prostitute activity. Ignorantly confronted immediately, he confessed to 3 years of use. Thought seriously of leaving then and there. However, we had moved 1500 miles away from family and friends and I was a SAHM who had not worked full time in 8 years. Upon consultation with a L, could not return back to home state with kids without being subject to felony kidnapping charges. Alimony was small and CS laughable, and they force 60/40 custody here without major battle in the courts. Instead of securing his consent to move, I chose to investigate recovery for both of us, pursue a post nup to secure SS and set up precedence for sole child custody. Getting set up with CSATs here have long waiting lists, so we did an informal disclosure so I could have a starting point.

Found out through prenup financial discovery of Viagra addiction that was not included in disclosure. Set up surveillance to be sure he was not continuing acting out, and while he wasn't revealed all sorts of pix and evidence that traumatized me. Sat in on a CSAT session for SAWH, after SAWH insisted he was not SA, to have CSAT tell me he was and he tried to get me to do a intervention right there. Said we should enroll in a 12 weekend intensives course to jump start the recovery process. Told him I didn't see how that would help when he won't admit he's an addict. Told me go alone. So I planned to, told SAWH he could go to or to IC, but it had to be one at least or the other.

SAWH decided to go to course, but said he could not commit to therapy also. I made a requirement to check out 12 step. He went to the classes, but if we had a babysitting fail would usually stay home with kids. He minimally did the assignments and didn't tell the truth during the group therapy sessions (which I suspected at the time, but later confirmed). I think he went to 1 or 2 12 step. End of course, I required weekly 12 step and weekly IC. He was about 70% compliant, insisting work emergencies took precedence and again looking for family excuses to skip. I went to IC and group therapy and 12 step, flourished.

Then SAWH had an epiphany maybe 6 to 9 months later and needed to confess the real story. Told him to work on it with his CSAT and sponsor and we'd address it at disclosure. During that time, stumbled on the motherlode of evidence - 15 years of activity, some of it extreme. Crumbled in IC/Group/12 step, and again with the dragging of feet for disclosure totally a wreck. MEanwhile he's happy, going to all his stuff every week, burden lifting, etc. being nice, engaged in family, etc.

Did disclosure last winter He admitted to all I found and more. Killed me. I wrote a killer impact letter that had everyone in tears. He scheduled a lie detector test a month later...and failed it. Acted like a turd when he found out (in a session with me and both CSATs). Now I had to wonder about mental health and if the kids were safe, since that was included in the test. Had a very expensive evaluation done by a court psych to tell me he was a SA, a turd, but not likely a child predator, and he told me all the signs to watch for and precautions to take if I ever had suspicions.

I got the post nup finalized. We have equity in the house now. I've got half the other debt in my name paid for, and a goal for paying off the rest so it won't have to be forced with the post nup. I have been exploring employment but prospects are very bleak for many reasons I won't list here. I have improved significantly in healing, have since dropped 12 step, and group dissolved this summer after a 1.5 year run. Still do IC, but 2x month. I have had some medical issues come up, I am sure at least partially due to the stress, that will also make it difficult for me to lose insurance and return to work.

Since winter he's been 12 step 2x week, say 90% compliance and usually the fails are family emergencies or trips - but he does not make them up with other meetings. Same for IC with CSAT. Seeing huge changes in him and his actions. Our relationship has improved significantly, and he is a real family man now. But has been 7-8 months with no target date for disclosure part two and followup poly, so the issue has been forced since he has no sense of urgency on it. I am not even asking about the poly until I see how disclosure part two goes.

I suspect that while he will feel he's shared all at part 2, he won't. Like random unapplicable example. "I had sex with spiders." Ok, gross. Like all the time, or was it an escalating thing? in the house? With kids in the house? Did you borrow money from your mom to do this? Etc. This is the kind of shit that comes up in disclosure - they think they've fessed all, and only scratched the surface. And of course not confront the TT kills the BS arena. And he's still not quite understanding what the total commitment recovery is - he's getting there, but after two years I am tired of waiting. And then the mental health issue...I suspect there is more there.

While that sounds like I am focusing on him, I am trying to see where it fits in with what I need. Is he going to be able to progress at a pace I can live with. Is the new info relevant to kid safety, etc. Is there a mental illness at play I have to consider. I can't say how I will feel yet about the new info.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 3:37 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh no, so this is really disclosure #3 for you if you count the initial disclosure. Stay strong!

And what a hard and painful progression you describe. The progress is wonderful but very hard won. And much of it at your expense. :(

You sound like you are handling this very, very well.


Posts: 209 | Registered: Apr 2013
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath - Keeping you in my thoughts for tonight! Hope it isn't horrible and that it moves things forward. Wasn't your SAWH diagnosed with Aspergers? That seemed to be a huge part of the missing piece and added to the snails pace of recovery.

Schilling - Let me add that even if you do not stay in a relationship with this SA, please stay in recovery! I stopped attending CODA meetings and therapy after a couple of years and married my SAWH husband then. He was a dry addict at the time but still had the traits of an addict. My co-dependency kicked back up during numerous health and financial strains and so did his addictions! So just a warning that recovery is for life! Particularly if you have been in a relationship for a long time with an addict (of any kind). It changes you.

Hurtagain - Yes, I remember you. Welcome! I have always thought your partner sounded like a sex addict.

AFM, looking forward to the weekend. My DS had a rough night and is having a rough day. The scabs came off on his tonsils and he is hurting. He woke up at 5 screaming this morning. Not a great start for anyone's morning! SAWH was talking to me about the work he is doing on his enmeshment with his mother. It is nice that he openly talks about these things now. It has been a long road and we are only about 1/3 of the way into the 2-6 years of recovery. (I thought it was 5 but my CSAT said the current data is 6, boo). At least I don't feel like we are falling off into the ditch anymore. Those were hard to dig out of!


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurtagain,

My knowledge is limited since I have only been dealing with SA for about 5 months so I'm not sure how to advise you on this. I can tell you that the video collection certainly fits the profile however, all the other behaviors you mention have not been addressed in the five books that I have read.

Face f***ing and the urinating are particularly disturbing due to the violating & degrading acts inflicted on the partner. I haven't read anything as of yet that would indicate that these behaviors are typical of SA in and of itself.

[This message edited by outtanowhere at 7:01 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 36 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell

Posts: 492 | Registered: Apr 2013
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fly by post, cuz I gotta drive a long way to pick up oldest from camp tomorrow...Disclosure Part Two went well. He owned his shit. I have some follow ups to process, but I can handle it. I read my piece, AND had him read the italics. He had addressed some of it on his own, but he can't cohesively put it all together like I did and was grateful to read it. We wound up discussing future steps and other things so I did not address the potential for other mental health issues this time. I do think it will be worth bringing up when we discuss results of upcoming poly #2. Tremendous pain and growth has happened.

And yeah, cds, I suppose really its part 3, but I now know any disclosure you do on your own doesn't really count. They tried to tell me that when I did it, and I was all, well, I have to know what I'm working with now, not a month or more from now, for legal reasons so I will do an informal as a starting point. Read up on how they did it professionally, had a format and guidelines, etc. because you know we can read up on this stuff and do anything, right. Well, be that as it may (and although what I did learn did impact legal stuff for me) I wound up traumatizing myself more in the long term setting myself up to be lied to an extra time and not having a CSAT there to support me through initial shit. So yeah, I should have listened in the beginning.

Anyway, everything happens for a reason and it becomes clear later why. Faith in that, and it being proven time and time again, gets me through it. I know it makes some people mad to hear that, but I believe that is because it hurts so very badly at the time you don't understand why. And I *totally* get that, would never say it when someone is actively hurting as such, but when you do finally truly understand the concept it does make life more beautiful.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath - So glad it went well! Sounds like it was a healing day.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Schilling
♀ Member
Member # 39774
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, August 3rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This week, for whatever reason my partner has been trying extra hard. He calls me every day, even set up a specific time to call "phone date" and actually called me on time, he's been checking in by text, bought me a new frying pan which I needed.

Then last night while chatting on the phone he said I sounded tired, I told him I was since i hadn't been sleeping. He asked if it was because of him and I flatly said yes. He apologized and asked Why. I told him there are just so many things left unsaid. And to my SHOCK he told me to write a list and we could talk about it tomorrow.

I was so shocked I couldn't wrap my brain around it and honestly, I just wanted to flee from the conversation, so I did just that.

I've got a tough time with people being nice to me, I tend to push it away.

After more random chatting he told me to get some sleep, that he loved me and to decide if I wanted to talk tomorrow night.

Weird. Weird. Weird.


I am 26(Bgf). He is 36 (Wbf).
On Again, Off Again - 10 years.
Not Married. No Kids.
D-Day: Too many to list/ remember.
Trying to Reconcile.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: San Francisco
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, August 3rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Schilling,

The door has just been opened wide up for you! I hope you take full advantage of this opportunity. We can't expect anyone to know our deepest needs, wishes & desires unless we spell it out for them. Once they have been clearly informed of this can we then hold them fully accountable if they continue to trespass our boundaries and you need to be ready to do just that!

Being understanding & kind most often is translated into weakness which only allows more wiggle room to infiltrate weak boundaries. Be strong & be firm. Think about what you need to be happy in life and don't be afraid of letting him walk. What does your future with him look like if he knowing & consistently ignores your needs?


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 36 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell

Posts: 492 | Registered: Apr 2013
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