CDS, my two cents. Phone meetings are great for supplementing hard times and for when you travel, but not a real substitute for live meetings. I wouldn't do it.
I totally get what you mean. Does SA have weekend meetings where you are? My SAWH does one night meeting, one evening IC, one Sunday morning meeting. And when he starts group therapy some day, it will likely be Saturday morning. It sucks having to essentially be a single parent during those times but it is what we work with.
The other thing he does is he does not sleep in almost ever. He gets up and fixes them breakfast every morning he does not have to go in early to work to meet somebody so he can at least see the kids in the morning.
Last thing is that since his evening IC is on Fridays, the kids stay up later on Friday to see him. Not much, 30-60 minutes but it beats not seeing him at all.
Hi, first post on this section. My H is SA also. Regarding what you wrote about coming on breasts, etc. If he were not an SA - then I wouldn't see it as that much of a problem or even objectifying, etc. Men like what they like, you know? But that is with HEALTHY men. You are not married to a man with a healthy sex history or life. You are married to a sex addict who abuses porn/sex/you. So - for him this is more than just healthy sex. I hope you can talk further about this with your counselor and have you had formal disclosure with a poly? I think with this behavior it would be good for you to really know, for sure, if he has truly been able to stop the porn. His addict is always talking to him and only the very strong with a lot of help can control the addict. He sounds like he may be having trouble with the addict - just my opinion.
Be strong. Work out - I hate working out, but I always tell other women married to these jerks (sorry, but to me all SA's are jerks unless they are in total recovery - does that happen?) to look out for yourself first and that starts with eating properly and working out. My mother died recently and I put on 25 pounds - and I really hurt myself by doing that. Now, I'm working on being the best physically I can be - because I have to worry about myself and my physical health is where I have complete control - not something like cancer, but what I put into my mouth and how I treat myself.
Sorry to digress. Disclosure/poly....
Then, if in the future, you want to do other non-"normal" sexual stuff like semen on the chest or whatever with the SA, then that is where you will decide if he is actually ready and healthy enough to do so.
He swears no porn or SA involved in that decision in any way, but...? To go without sex for so long and it ended like that?
I think he is a man who likes to see his semen come out and onto a woman. This is a main theme in porn. Men grow up watching and thinking this is the way to have sex and it becomes a huge turn on. I have had to watch a lot of porn ( I know, gross) to try and understand an addiction to porn and though I still do not understand it and do not like porn at all (I know some women do like it) I did see that a main focus is when the man ejaculates and where he ejaculates. I think it is known as the "money shot". Remember, porn is acting. So if your SA was addicted to porn this is just ingrained in him after watching years and 1000s of hours of porn. Really - men love porn. SA's live it.
You can work on a healthy sex life - it will take years I'm sure. SAs don't know what healthy is - that is why they need 12 steps, IC, Group counseling, marriage counseling, full disclosure, poly, total transparency.
[This message edited by mychild at 3:17 PM, August 8th (Thursday)]
Hi. I do not know how long your SA has been in treatment or how long he has been doing SA meetings or when D-day was. So without that knowledge, my 2 cents would be to really consider the group over the second SA meeting unless he could find a weekend morning group. I hope his sponsor would not be upset with him, but really, the sponsor should understand how important a men's group is. My SA wasn't finding IC as important as his group so we decided to stop the IC as he really wasn't getting enough out of it and only do the mens group, which he really likes. It's important for him, himself, to go every single week, whereas he didn't enjoy the IC as much - they didn't have a lot to talk about after a while... But he also attends two SA meetings a week he just loves also. Like was mentioned earlier - maybe a weekend morning meeting. But in the end it is what you BOTH are comfortable with. My 2 cents - the group is invaluable.
[This message edited by mychild at 3:34 PM, August 8th (Thursday)]
cds - My two cents is that your SAWH hadn't fallen as far into his addiction as some others, therefore I would think that doing a phone meeting for his extra meeting for the 10 weeks would be fine. My SAWH just does one SA meeting and his men's group as his 2nd meeting. That is fine with his CSAT and sponsor. He has also said he gets more out of his mens group than anything else. I would not stop IC with a CSAT, however. That seems dangerous before year 3 or so, IMHO.
mychild - It would be nice if you told us a little about yourself and what you are going through.
Woman - My SAWH's main problem has been sexual and intimacy anorexia. He is not a love addict, however. So for us, finally having a satisfying intimate life is so rewarding. That is hopefully going to continue to grow.
Spinning - To me, what you are talking about is one of those things that you are going to have to decide how it felt. If you felt like the sex was disconnected and you were being used, then it was. KWIM? Learning to validate our own reality is super important.
Confused - Considering separating sounds brilliant! I agree with the others, it rally doesn't matter if he is bi or not. The sexual addiction is the problem.
AFM, have been really busy. Things are going well. I was a little under the weather today, so hoping to be better tomorrow. Have to get ready for vacation.
Hope everyone is doing well!
Any "Anon" meeting is very structured and except for the sharing part, you don't really interact with the other members. Getting together after the meeting and being free to deviate from the structure is a good oppty for members to share experiences and interact. He may learn a lot if this is the case.
Also, as they say in S-Anon, you have to admit you are powerless. That means we have to acknowledge we have no control over what the addict thinks or does. It's wasted energy.
I guess I just got triggered last night. I couldn't help my mind from going to the 'what ifs'. I knew he was most likely chatting with others, but couldn't stop my mind from wondering.
I don't think it's unreasonable for me to place a boundary which asks for him to call if he's going to be over an hour after meeting ends. What's more important, chatting with others or helping me feel a bit more secure? He agreed, which is nice. It just sucks that before DDay, I wouldn't have thought twice about him being late. This is life now.
He did ask my permission to go. He did promise to stay in touch. He does understand this is really hard on me.
My nerves are on edge. But I wanted him to go. A favorite designer of his is doing a very rare signing and a swap meet of his products, I couldn't get the time off on short notice. This will be good for us... To see if he can live up to his promises of keep in touch with me.
Eeeeeekkkkkkk. Going to be a LONG weekend.
You all are so much stronger than I. I'm just at the beginning of the journey, but I've pretty much decided that I don't want to go through years of uncertainty and policing his actions. I'm his wife, not his mother.
I had no clue prior to all this. I'm kinda looking at it like he's been taken over by a pod person. He looks like the man I love, sounds like him too. But he isn't the man I love, maybe he never really was.
I'm 7 months out from Dday. H participated in multiple EA, PA's stretching over an 8 year period. Porn addiction, text/email addiction. Basically an attention and list addict.
I demanded immediate addiction recovery program (outpatient, 10 days). He lived in a rented condo until last week. He goes to 2-3 SA meetings a week, IC, MC, medication. All vestiges of contact from his acting out days has been erased (new phone number, no texting, parental controls on all devices).
He is complying with a very long boundary list. He seems very committed and honestly hasn't wavered since he started his recovery.
I'm doing everything I'm supposed to as well: IC, taking time for me, working an SAnon program, etc.
I feel he's doing great, he is present with the kids and i more than ever, he cant do enough for me, he talks about how his head is clear, he's more in love,with me than his addictions ever allowed him to be yada yada yada......
Some days I'm just so angry still.
So, because I'm awesome and together and I'm patient and willing to work, he gets all these chances to reclaim the amazing life he shit upon.
I don't feel angry everyday, I just have my moments. I'm laid up with an AcL tear, I had a head injury too...could of put me in the ground honestly...it was a bad accident. 2 months ago I had a kidney infection that hospitalized me (I'm generally a picture of health and super active).
I get this weird shaking at night, in bed with him. Feels like my skin can't hold me in.
Working on all this with my IC.
I do love him. The "him" I think I know.
Therein lies the rub for me...I thought I was married to Prince Charming. Honestly, he had the universe fooled, with me at the head of the line.
Glad I found you guys.
One day at a time,,right?
((Hugs to all the partners/victims of SA and their behaviors))
That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger...but damn, aren't I strong enough yet???
I am so heart broken as I have loved him and had planned my future with him and had a baby with him.
Why did he marry me? He was already messing with others. Why did he have a child with me.
He is the most selfish, devious arsehole. I haven't said anything as my niece is here. I am going to see a divorce attorney. This is so thoroughly unfair and fucked up for both my son and me. SCREW HIM
At least this fence is mine to own and
And, I hear you. It is certainly not fair, they (the SA in recovery) have a clear path to follow, they get a nice little chip/coin, and the accolades of their group for doing what we were doing for years, being loving, attentive and FAITHFUL.
We also have the trauma of trying to figure out how we were so fooled. How we didn't see who we really were married to.
I learned that I had to allow myself the anger, I had to vent about it, I had to TELL SAfWH how angry I was, and he had to learn to take it. He wasn't always a good listener, but he learned to be. Sometimes I wasn't quiet and patient and polite in my recitations of how his actions affected me. I try to follow the advice I learned in SANON "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean." But wasn't always successful.
Some here had the benefit of a formal impact statement under supervision of a CSAT. Is that possible in your case?
Oh honey. I'm so sorry. I wish I could be there IRL to help. Hang on. Be strong for your child. Is there anyone IRL you can go to? Can you throw his sick ass out?