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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-11
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been on vacation - there's been a lot going on and a lot of new members - welcome, and sorry you are here.

I just finshed reading the last 4 pages and wow... Hugs to all of you out there.

wif - I have had sexual anorexia in my relationship/M for 20 years. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Spinning - did he take care of your needs, did you get what you wanted out of the sexual encounter?

confused - I am so sorry for what you are going through. The pain of your discovery is giving you the strength to think clearly. Go see a divorce L, continue your IC, take gentle care of yourself, do something kind for yourself (massage, mani/pedi, hot cup of tea, hot bath, long walk, run listening to music, being out in nature), and continue posting here. We got your back!

Missy - hope you have a great vacation!

Schilling - I just read your signature line and realized that you and your partner have been together since you were 16 and he was 26. That is not ok and it is predatory behavior on his part. Please continue with your IC so that you will not be a victim to his verbal and emotional abuse anymore. My gut is telling me that his being nice to you is like a wolf in sheep's clothing - I don't trust it one bit. I think there is a lot of deep shit to wade through in his situation. Be careful.

I had a nice vacation with the kids and I did not invite SAWH. We stayed at a relative's home and it was a lot of fun. I was sad to realize that even though I was a single parent taking care of two little ones, it actually was better without him there dragging me down, complaining about this or that, making me feel stressed because we weren't doing what he wanted to be doing or he would want to leave early, etc. It really was a much better vacation without him.

He is being kind and attentive; he has taken the 700 question test that his CSAT asked him to take and has an appt with his CSAT in a couple of days. He is supposed to be working on disclosure, but he doesn't really know exactly what he is supposed to do. He will talk with his CSAT about this. I spoke with his CSAT and he said that he expects that SAWH will have 5-6 more sessions with the CSAT before he gets into group therapy. The process seems so slow!

We are still sleeping in separate rooms. I am warming up to him a little bit bc his actions have been pretty good. He got in trouble with his boss for seeing us for one day while we were on vacation because they needed him in the office; he said that if it is a choice between work or his family, he will choose his family EVERY TIME (his emphasis). This, from a man whose work always came first; if work needed him, he would cancel anything family-related without question. So, I think he is making baby steps. Still not enough progress on the SA recovery front for me, though. He is taking the kids for vacation soon, so that will set us back another week.

I am rambling, so I will end. I think of you all often and am sending good thoughts your way.

((((((SA spouses))))))


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Confused, oh I am so sorry. What a cruel blow. Go see the divorce attorney. You can't live with that kind of craziness and risk and horror. No one can. And that is not the environment you want to raise your child in. Hugs.

N&N: For whatever reason, I also found doing a week of vacation alone with kids to be a major turning point. Just the realization that whatever way this works out is going to be OK bring such peace. Hoping for more peaceful days ahead for you!


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cds - yes, I felt really empowered being a single parent on vacation. I realized that I could do it all and have fun doing it. If we D, I will be ok (and at peace). Life is good.

Hope everyone is having/had a good day.

((((((SA spouses))))))


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
Schilling
♀ Member
Member # 39774
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

numbandnauseous,

While I understand a lot of people feel this way, my life wasn't exactly normal.

I graduated high school when I was 14. I was working full time when I was 16 in my chosen career. Due to my high intelligence and the path I chose to take because of it, I grew up much faster then those my age. While I may have been a little naive, it wasn't as "predatory" as the numbers might lead one to believe. Most of my time as a teenager was spent in MENSA meetings with people twice my age. I couldn't relate to anyone my age and I still can't. I've got one friend my own age, we have known each other since birth, I love her to death but I cannot relate to her. Everyone else I am friends with are in their 30's and 40's.

I am always wary and careful when it comes to him. I've done this many many times, I know him and I know the drill. But still, as of now, his kindness and efforts continue. He will have a rough week at work this week, so we shall see how things go.

A LOT of his moods revolve around the week he has at work. He cannot channel his stress from work in a healthy or positive way and for reasons I don't understand he cannot leave work at work, he always brings it home with him.

My goal this week is to talk to him about therapy. Express that I won't stay in the relationship unless he is getting help.

As for me, I don't plan on quitting Individual Therapy any time soon, it's changed my life in some pretty wonderful ways. It's given me the strength to baby-step in the right direction of finding my voice within my relationship and work through a lot of things that I'd never dreamed I'd talk about.

I am strong and powerful in every other aspect of my life, but he makes me weak. It's from years of heartache and pain (among other things) and it's been so good to slowly find my footing and pull some of that power and strength from every other aspect of my life into my relationship.


I am 26(Bgf). He is 36 (Wbf).
On Again, Off Again - 10 years.
Not Married. No Kids.
D-Day: Too many to list/ remember.
Trying to Reconcile.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: San Francisco
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Schilling, just to offer another way of thinking about things: the fact that you experienced social development challenges and isolation due to asynchronous cognitive development seems to me to support predatory behavior, not refute it.

Anyway, I am glad you are focusing on IC and setting some boundaries in your relationship. That takes alot of inner strength and you should be proud!


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
NedsBones
♀ New Member
Member # 40132
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just going to jump in on this thread. I'm still in the "Just Found Out" category as well, with DDay less than three weeks ago. While we have not been seeing a MC long enough for an official diagnosis of "sex addiction", his behavior is textbook. He and I have always hated the term "sex addiction", and we use other terms for it sometimes. In the course of the conversation in which he admitted to this very extensive secret life he had, it quickly sank in to me that we were dealing not just with infidelity, but with a mental condition. I actually instantly felt sorry for him.

I spent the next couple of weeks feeling sorry for myself and my son. My brain is coming back online again, I have been able to peel myself away from his formerly secret email accounts and instant messenger apps and phone records.

I will be looking into the reading resources suggested on this thread. I just have to ask, though, are sex addicts less trustworthy once they have been found out and made a commitment to changing their behavior?

Also, it's been mentioned on this thread by some others that with sex addiction, the behavior can be so extensive that shadows from the past can creep out of the woodwork for years to come. Is it better to limit the chance for new discoveries with the intent of putting it behind you as a couple? Or is it better to leave open the possibility of facing them? I feel that if I leave these email accounts behind (and he wants to change his phone number, too) that I will leave stones unturned. At this point one more sexual encounter is just piling on. In some ways I have to wonder why it even matters, but for some reason it does to me. I want to know *everything*. But as I've said, his behavior is so extensive that it could take a while to discover everything, even if he doesn't willfully omit details. It's so much that he may genuinely not remember everything.

That brings me to another concern. I believe that he is being honest with me now. Mostly because it's so bad I don't know how there could possibly be any more. But I believed he was being faithful to me before, and finding out that he was being so very deceitful has ripped the rug out from under me. I can't take anything he says at face value now. So I worry that he's manipulating me maliciously (which doesn't seem like him, but who is he really?), or that he's omitting some relationships so that he can go further underground with them and continue his behavior.

It feels good to dump all of this baggage here. I'm glad this site exists, with its specialized forums and support from fellow sufferers and those who have made it through to the other side.


Me BW (31)
Him WH (31)
Married 4 years, coupled 5 years
3 year old son
DDay 7/28/2013 6:14 am

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Oklahoma
emptyempty
♀ New Member
Member # 40215
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NedsBones -

I am in a similar position, but DDay for me in now nearly three months. I wish when I found my husband's accounts that I had merely changed the pass codes and security questions so that he could not access them. Now, I have to wonder if he is creating new accounts despite his vows that he has completely given up his old secret life. Right now I am on the trust but verify part of his R, but not trusting so much as pretending to trust.

I also went immediately to a lawyer and got a post-nup.


me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 45
DS: 15, 12
Ignored Signs: 2002. 2008, 2009. 2010.
DDay: Mother's Day 2013.

Liar, liar. I wish your pants were (literally) on fire.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Texas
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all. I feel a little guilty, I think the new resource thread I started in JFO is going to drive a lot of traffic here and my parents are coming today for a week so I won't be able to post much. There are lots of very knowledgeable old-timers on this thread, but the good thing is when you get further down the road of healing, you don't need to post here every day. So please don't be discouraged if you don't get advice right away.

Most of the old-timers already know my story. For those of you that are new, and are up to reading 16 pages of posts of heartbreak, there is a thread that tells my story over the last two years:

http://sss.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=421531&AP=1&HL=

It is just one example of a BS with a SAWH. Many others are more fortunate, some are less fortunate. But it does give you a good roadmap of precautions you can take, and a peek at what things may happen in your future. I stopped updating the story in December of 2012. There have been a few developments since then but not much. I can expand on those after my parents are gone.

Be kind to yourselves. We are all in this together.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am on vacation and don't have much time.

Schilling - I was in a very similar situation with my 1st husband. I graduated HS at 16, was on my own and traveling the world with work. I met him when 17 but didn't date until 18. However, he was 13 years older than I am. It took quite a bit of therapy to recognize that he was a predator. On the outside I was a sophisticated woman but emotionally still very young. That dynamic caused a paternal abusive relationship that scared me paychologically in a way that a relationship with a peer wouldn't. I had to look at why I was so vulnerable to a relationship of this type. A high IQ, which I also had, did not translate into high EQ. So, please listen to these wise women and look at the predatory aspect of your relationship.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@neds and empty. Welcome to our sisterhood. We don't have all the answers but we certainly have compassion.

Your stories are all too familiar to me. And to many of us dealing with SA spouses. It is a horrific addiction, causing trauma to families that is simply not the same as other addictions. My specific story is in my profile if you need to see my background.

The first page of this thread has excellent resources. The best books, IMO are YOUR SEXUALLY ADDICTED SPOUSE and MENDING A SHATTERED HEART. Both have been updated recently and talk about spouses as trauma victims-which we are. There are other books, the Milton Magness is another favorite, but those two are personal favorites. Steer away from any therapist or program that immediately labels you as a co-addict. Also IMO, there is usually an element of co-dependent behavior in any dysfunctional marriage, but it's difficult to be a co-addict when you don't know that he is an addict. It shouldn't be the emphasis of the therapy.

Personally, I had to know everything. It didn't work out that I learned everything right away-it was truly horrible, with me asking just the right question in just the right way at just the right time and him finally deciding to tell the truth. My reaction wasn't pretty, nor helpful. If you read Hath's story, she did it "right" although no less painfully. Her disclosure(s) took place under the supervision of Certified Sex Addiction Therapists, and her therapy, and recovery are ongoing. This method ensures that the truth is REALLY told in completion and gives the spouse support and a way to react to the information.

Sex addiction can be overcome. But there is a high rate of recidivism. That said, I believe, and have seen, a great many people with long YEARS of sobriety. They are men who work a 12 step program actively, work with a CSAT and work on sobriety everyday. I, personally would NOT stay with an addict who was not doing all those things, knowing about the rate of relapse.

SANON and COSA are programs for spouses. Most of the time they are wonderfully supportive, real life places for you to go, to get support, find out how to set boundaries, and see that recovery is possible. I would not be sane if not for Sanon.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2923 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

re sex addicts less trustworthy once they have been found out and made a commitment to changing their behavior?

Sometimes. They can be so shamed by their behavior they get frantic to cover it up. On the other hand, sometimes they get "real" very quickly and come clean. Not my SAfWH. It took him another year. He also forgot many of his encounters and certainly forgot the "footprints" he left behind.

But I believed he was being faithful to me before, and finding out that he was being so very deceitful has ripped the rug out from under me. I can't take anything he says at face value now. So I worry that he's manipulating me maliciously (which doesn't seem like him, but who is he really?), or that he's omitting some relationships so that he can go further underground with them and continue his behavior.

I'm afraid that any and all of this may be true. This is the addiction. As you read about how the brain chemistry is affected by the behaviors, it may help you understand that as much as he may want to stop, it simply isn't that easy. It's easier to intellectualize than it is to really believe.

If you haven't engaged a CSAT for YOU and one for HIM, please do it ASAP. Don't waste time and money with regular IC.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2923 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
emptyempty
♀ New Member
Member # 40215
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ScaredyKat - thanks so much for the welcome. I have been watching the thread for a while trying to get my thoughts and feelings pulled together enough to post. I am so sorry that this is how we're meeting, but the strength of everyone here is so heartening.


me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 45
DS: 15, 12
Ignored Signs: 2002. 2008, 2009. 2010.
DDay: Mother's Day 2013.

Liar, liar. I wish your pants were (literally) on fire.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Texas
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 1:17 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Schilling, thank you for posting more of your story. I hope you didn't take offense to my post, as none was meant. As they say, "take what you need, and leave the rest."

I posted what I did because for some reason, on that day, I happened to look at your signature line (which I normally don't do), and I happened to really read it, and I happened to do the math on how old you both were when you met and then I had that gut feeling, so I thought I'd share it with you. It might be something you might want to look into your FOO for; for instance, what is your relationship with your father like? How does it relate (or not) to what your relationship with your BF is like now?

Just something to think about. I may be totally off base, you may not be ready to delve into that part of your FOO, etc. No need to pay me any attention if any of the above is true. Again, please know that I brought the issue up with no malintent.

P.S. It sounds like you have had an extraordinary life, and I am so glad that you are finding your voice. It felt so good when I found mine too!

Nedsbones and empty- welcome and sorry you are here. You will find a wonderful group of women (and possibly lurking men?) and much support.

Nedsbones, I am not sure I fully understand your questions, but I will attempt to answer them:
-trust: addicts lie. You can never trust them until they are well into recovery. I don't know if I would even bother with more or less trustworthy, just don't trust them until they have shown you CONSISTENTLY (over months or years) with their ACTIONS that they are worthy of your trust again.
-limiting the chance of new discoveries: not sure what you mean about this, but your SAWH should do a disclosure with you (with his CSAT) where he gives you his whole sexual history. He may have a polygraph after disclosure to make sure he is telling the truth. You are right, he may not remember some of it if his activity is extensive and you will have to decide what to do with that. You have a recent Dday, so I assume you are in that frantic searching mode; it will subside after a while because you will wear yourself out (physically and mentally). I didn't believe that I would get worn out, but I finally did. You will also realize that you don't want to spend 8 or even 1 hour a day looking for things that are going to make you feel like shit. You will know when you have had enough. You will eventually want to focus on you and take care of yourself rather than spending all your time focusing on him. But, the obsessive searching mode was part of the process for me, so I totally get it. It is something that some (if not all) of us have to go through, to varying degrees....

The fear of whether you can trust him or not (whether he's taking things underground) is the 64 million dollar question. It would be unwise to blindly give your trust back to him so early, as he is not likely truly in recovery yet. As I said above, he has to show you consistently with actions that he deserves your trust again. I wish we could all have crystal balls to tell us whether our SAWHs would truly get into recovery or if they would just take things underground and how long it will take to have a normal relationship again. But, that isn't possible, so we have to watch their actions, trust our gut, listen to our body to tell if something is off (muscle tension, acid reflux acting up - this is what our CSAT leader of our women's group tells us - listen to your gut and your body to know if your addict is acting out or not).

hath - I'm so glad you posted a resource thread in JFO. I was reading in JFO the other day and I was shocked by how many WS SAs there are there. I wanted to PM all of the BSs to tell them that we have an awesome thread in ICR. So thanks for getting the word out! Hope you have a wonderful week with your parents!

For the newbies: as one of the very wise veterans on here (TooManyYears, I think - correct me if I am wrong) says: focus on taking care of you so that you will be ok no matter what happens with your addict. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING - TAKE CARE OF YOU. Ways you can take care of yourself are: go to IC and group meetings like COSA, exercise, journal, pray, meditate, take a hot bath, make yourself a good cup of tea, go for a walk or hike, yoga, running, setting boundaries, not feeling guilty or selfish for taking care of yourself!

Hugs to all!

Edited for clarity.

[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 1:32 AM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning sistas!

I haven't posted much lately but, I come here everyday for my morning "devotional". We have doing fairly well for the last few weeks. Still have had trouble having any kind of problem solving type discussion. Seems that no matter what I say or how I say it, he automatically faults himself and then is overwhelmed by his guilt & shame. He has always been a fixer. If I say I want something to change, that is immediately interpreted into "do something now!". At this point he can't stay focused on any problem long enough to logically think it through.

My parents are in their middle 80's now & I told him a couple of nights ago that I would like to start positioning ourselves in our employment arena so that when the time comes, which is only months away at best, I will be able to leave my job in order to take care of them. This of course would mean he needs to find a steady means of income, otherwise known as a job, that would support both of us.

His solution - let's do an uncontested divorce. We sell the house and I would get the money. I could move in with my parents and not have any financial obligations. My name would be removed from all of the business debt. Almost sounds like a pretty sweet deal huh? Except, I've worked for 35 years only to end up living with my parents? No home to go to after a long day? What hurts the most is that he is still letting his pride run the show. After being his own boss for 13 years he has no intention of going to work for anybody else. So he will keep dragging the body of his once very viable business around with him until HE decides to bury it. It's beyond resurrection but, yet he still holds out hope. He doesn't want to consider working for someone else, having a steady, weekly paycheck and stay with me. I start to believe after a while that I'm the one losing their grip on reality.

Today we will be working out the logistics of separating. It's gonna be a tough day. I could use some prayers!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 36 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell

Posts: 495 | Registered: Apr 2013
eyesrnowopen
♀ Member
Member # 39055
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First post on SA but have been on SI for 5 months. Read SA 8-9-1/2 of 10. You ladies are so strong and insightful. I am in need of guidance.

We have been seperated since DD my story is on my profile. Multiple EAs(suspect PAs), porn, masterbation, no real sex life. We are currently both in IC and MC. I am detaching and my IC is making stronger and the FOG is lifting for me. I suspect he is SA and NPD. MIL is def NPD and he is firmly attached to her as the good son.

According to him, his IC is working with him on communication and assertiveness, he admits to belong conflict avoidant and compartmentalizing. He has not told me much about his work on As except that he did not have sex (did go to conferences with other women and one was in his room until 1 am and one was at our home when I was not). He says he did think about sex with them but did not. The one he admits she left and he wanted to. He will only say it was about ego boosting and not sex. He is angry at being put out of the house and blame shifting.

We are now at the point where we both have Ls. I took half savings and he did not react well withdrawing his paycheck from our joint account, upping his 401K and paying 7k from our checking to pay a loan that was only due $850. as a result our checks and credit cards bounced and we have incurred all kinds of fees.

I explained it was to protect myself and he says he understands and now has put his paycheck back into our joint account. One min he is cooperative, the next he is threatening. His latest threat is tht he wants move back and out of his mothers. He says he will need to pull out his check if he has to get an apt. I realize he can move back without permission at any time and he has moved back without permission any time I'm on vacation or away. He also comes over on occasion to see kids here and stays on the couch (without asking). I am detached enough now that I have NC unless bills and finances. I show no emotion (he does not see me). I am in MC still as I am hoping he will have some more time to get it. I have hopped to give it 6 months. Also we have shelved talk of As to focus on communication regarding kids. I want to develop a calm communication with him before I move to D. Up until 2 weeks ago with all the money moving drama, I was still seeing him as a trigger. But now and I recently discovered the new texting OW I realize I can put my emotions aside. I am starting to truly detach. His pulling his check, diverting our funds, threats and refusing to approve a councilor for our kids to see has shown me what I need to see and the fact that he does NOT SEE ME. No point in me explaining, or showing any pain.

I'm ready for D. I have emerg $$, I have an L that is ready to file. I work so I have some income, he makes 3x more than I do. He has also lied about stuff with kids recently to avoid confrontations.

I am giving MC more of a chance until he pulls his check out. I now see the patterns of his SA. And i am thinking i should bring this up at MC. I recently found out he has a new source for his supply. He does not know I see his phone logs. He has a new number, another female co- worker). Two of the three i know about are co-workers. All work under him as president of the company. This one is married and he is texting her for advise on our M, so far nothing i see has been sexual but i dont see them all. He started a month ago and it has exculated. She alwaya asks him how he is doing and says things like "it is her loss; you will be fine; you cant keep putting up with this; you rock; you are awsome. He says things like "she yells at me all the time". In fact he starts each text to her after our MCs with a report on if i yelled at him. What i have come to realize is any emotion or pitch to my voice indicates yelling to my WH.

Questions I have:
Should I confront him with SA possibility at MC or speak to MC privately. I doubt at this point he will react well. Or just cut out now?

Should I simply ask conditions to stay in MC before I move to D. some of my conditions are
NO MORE LYING: this would mean no withholding any information and when asked something tell the truth.

FULL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE : giving all credit card passwords, paycheck remains in joint account, 401 K goes back down

TRANSPARENCIES: cell phone, emails, no erasing text emails. Giving me access. In was thinking of asking to see his cell right in front of MC and calling him on texting OW.

NO PERSONAL CONTACT WITH OW WHAT SO EVER. Work, friend FB, email etc no crossing over from work to pers.

HE BE EVALUATED by CSAT

Does anyone have any feedback, cautions words of wisdom etc for me.

Thank You


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2013
eyesrnowopen
♀ Member
Member # 39055
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First post on SA but have been on SI for 5 months. Read SA 8-9-1/2 of 10. You ladies are so strong and insightful. I am in need of guidance.

We have been seperated since DD my story is on my profile. Multiple EAs(suspect PAs), porn, masterbation, no real sex life. We are currently both in IC and MC. I am detaching and my IC is making stronger and the FOG is lifting for me. I suspect he is SA and NPD. MIL is def NPD and he is firmly attached to her as the good son.

According to him, his IC is working with him on communication and assertiveness, he admits to belong conflict avoidant and compartmentalizing. He has not told me much about his work on As except that he did not have sex (did go to conferences with other women and one was in his room until 1 am and one was at our home when I was not). He says he did think about sex with them but did not. The one he admits she left and he wanted to. He will only say it was about ego boosting and not sex. He is angry at being put out of the house and blame shifting.

We are now at the point where we both have Ls. I took half savings and he did not react well withdrawing his paycheck from our joint account, upping his 401K and paying 7k from our checking to pay a loan that was only due $850. as a result our checks and credit cards bounced and we have incurred all kinds of fees.

I explained it was to protect myself and he says he understands and now has put his paycheck back into our joint account. One min he is cooperative, the next he is threatening. His latest threat is tht he wants move back and out of his mothers. He says he will need to pull out his check if he has to get an apt. I realize he can move back without permission at any time and he has moved back without permission any time I'm on vacation or away. He also comes over on occasion to see kids here and stays on the couch (without asking). I am detached enough now that I have NC unless bills and finances. I show no emotion (he does not see me). I am in MC still as I am hoping he will have some more time to get it. I have hopped to give it 6 months. Also we have shelved talk of As to focus on communication regarding kids. I want to develop a calm communication with him before I move to D. Up until 2 weeks ago with all the money moving drama, I was still seeing him as a trigger. But now and I recently discovered the new texting OW I realize I can put my emotions aside. I am starting to truly detach. His pulling his check, diverting our funds, threats and refusing to approve a councilor for our kids to see has shown me what I need to see and the fact that he does NOT SEE ME. No point in me explaining, or showing any pain.

I'm ready for D. I have emerg $$, I have an L that is ready to file. I work so I have some income, he makes 3x more than I do. He has also lied about stuff with kids recently to avoid confrontations.

I am giving MC more of a chance until he pulls his check out. I now see the patterns of his SA. And i am thinking i should bring this up at MC. I recently found out he has a new source for his supply. He does not know I see his phone logs. He has a new number, another female co- worker). Two of the three i know about are co-workers. All work under him as president of the company. This one is married and he is texting her for advise on our M, so far nothing i see has been sexual but i dont see them all. He started a month ago and it has exculated. She alwaya asks him how he is doing and says things like "it is her loss; you will be fine; you cant keep putting up with this; you rock; you are awsome. He says things like "she yells at me all the time". In fact he starts each text to her after our MCs with a report on if i yelled at him. What i have come to realize is any emotion or pitch to my voice indicates yelling to my WH.

Questions I have:
Should I confront him with SA possibility at MC or speak to MC privately. I doubt at this point he will react well. Or just cut out now?

Should I simply ask conditions to stay in MC before I move to D. some of my conditions are
NO MORE LYING: this would mean no withholding any information and when asked something tell the truth.

FULL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE : giving all credit card passwords, paycheck remains in joint account, 401 K goes back down

TRANSPARENCIES: cell phone, emails, no erasing text emails. Giving me access. In was thinking of asking to see his cell right in front of MC and calling him on texting OW.

NO PERSONAL CONTACT WITH OW WHAT SO EVER. Work, friend FB, email etc no crossing over from work to pers.

HE BE EVALUATED by CSAT

Does anyone have any feedback, cautions words of wisdom etc for me.

Thank You


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2013
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@outta....prayers headed your way. He is s still in addict think, not able to get past that first Step.

Detach. I'm here if you need me.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2923 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Phoenix9572
♀ Member
Member # 39987
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure if I belong here but I suspect I do. SA was just mentioned to me for the first time at IC on Monday. Since then I've read every post on this thread to try to understand what SA looks like.

Here's some highlights of my situation:
*shortly before we got married my FIL came out that he was getting a divorce and having a sex change. This rocked my WH world (as it would anyones) but he never really "dealt" with it. It has come out in IC and MC that my fFIL passed on some pretty f'd up messages to WH on what it really meant to be a man. ex WH coming home from date in high school and getting asked if he got any.
* recently found out that 15 & 16 years ago WH had ONS while out of town with older women. His reasoning was that he could not satisfy me sexually and had to prove to himself that he could. He said the first woman did have an orgasm but the second did. He claims there were only two because he now knew the issue was just with me. Within a year of 2nd ONS we had our first child and he said he figured he should get his act together to be a good role model.
* WH also claims that he was very frustrated about the lack of sex that we had when we first moved in together. I remember feeling like just a piece of tail after we moved in together and not someone that he was in love with.
* Sex has always been a difficult area for us - different levels of desire at different points of our lives due to kids, work stress etc. Never really talked about our expectations or needs.
* last couple of years sex had dropped off to maybe once a week and it was quick and perfunctory on his part. Very frustrating and unsatisfying. He claims it was because of how unattached he was to me because of weight gain.
* last Sept WH left for 3 days after a very rough time in our relationship. He said he had to leave and figure some things out before he made a bad choice. He said there was no one else but I knew then he was lusting after his 25 yo assistant. Thankfully she did not return the interest.
* on dday #1 when I found out about the ONS I also found out that he was on 3 different web-sites looking for NSA hook ups. He admitted that he did try to meet one an hour away during his work day. He claims that she stood him up and sent him a timestamped video of her masturbating at the time they were to meet.
* he deleted the accounts and email acct in front of me and told me he was recommitting to our marriage.
* 1 month later I'm checking our phone records and see that there is a number that he texts just about every morning on his way to work. Find out its an older female client. Confront him in MC and he says that he will have NC except for business.
* 2 weeks ago I check phone records again and she has texted him again and he has signs that he's back on web-sites. Confront him again and he admits to 2 sites and that text were business related. Ugh!

So for all you sage wise women here - can you relate to any of this garbage? And I guess my biggest question is at what point to WH realize that they need help for SA? Is it like other addicts where they need to hit rock bottom before they realize they need help? My WH has been so good at gaslighting me that I think he's been gaslighting himself too. KWIM?
Any suggestions for how to get my WH to even think the he could possibly be suffering from SA would be helpful.

I appreciate everyone here sharing their struggles so we can all benefit from each others experiences. However, I am so saddened by all the grief and pain that touches so many people. Its hard to imagine that there are so many breaking hearts hurting just like mine.


Me - 40
WH - 42
Married 18 years
kids - 14, 12
DD - May 13, 2013
DD2 - Aug 4, 2013
DD3 - Aug 27, 2013
Status - Legally separated; really wanted R but don't think that is possible anymore

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Southern Indiana
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eyes--that stuff with your checking account gives me a very bad vibe too. Keep on getting your ducks in a row.

Phoenix--I generally hesitate to say whether something is SA or not. I am not 100% comfortable with the SA diagnosis (which I think is still crude) and also I don't personally know how to apply it! What I think is a reasonable requirement of R is that your H go to a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist) for an intake interview and to take the diagnostic test (it is hundreds of questions). The long and short of it is that whatever his problem is it needs to be identified and treated if your M is to survive. As for hitting bottom/when did they realize, I was lucky in a way in that my H "hit bottom" with his first very serious acting out incident with a stripper which entailed oral sex. He went into a deep depression, lost 20 pounds in a matter of weeks, became convinced he was dying (he somatizes under extreme stress), and confessed to me. Our biggest stumbling block was that no less than FOUR traditionally trained IC and MC told us we needed to move on, one-time mistake, H even asked a psychiatrist if he could have SA and the person said no. The problem I suspect is that we look too good on paper and that H was in the earlier stages of his addiction. Anyway, once the wonderful folks at SI pointed out to me the potential SA issues (I didn't even know that SA existed prior to this), I then spoke with H. Although it was a boundary of mine that he seek evaluation and treatment, I did not even need to say that out loud because he made the CSAT appointment the same day and had completed the full battery of tests a few weeks later. So in my H's case yes he hit rock bottom on his own due to his conscience (such as it is). But many others hit rock bottom when they are found out and their spouse is considering leaving. And some don't even hit bottom then.

Outta-sending many, many hugs. I am a little confused. It sounds like you are separating for real right? Not just to deal with the business debt issue? I am so sorry. That is such a hard blow. But the fact that he suggested you divorce rather than suck up his pride, well I agree with SK, that seems to me like addict thinking where pride and ego come before love and relationships. :(

[This message edited by cds22 at 2:35 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
emptyempty
♀ New Member
Member # 40215
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, outta - I am so sorry. Your strength and grace are such an inspiration to me. I wish that you did not have to go through this terrible pain. You are lovely and wise and worthy; surely this must be a phase of recovery (may I name it the dickhead stubborn stage) that will pass once he realizes what an empty well of despair his life is without you there to support, love, and help him.

Phoenix - The thing that I am noticing more and more is that most of what I have learned I discovered on my own - very little has been volunteered and I am still not getting the correct timeline. He claims 2011, but I am finding more and more information from 2010 and some indicators from 2009; I may even remember an incident from 2008 that he explained away as a check to bail out a loser sister behind on bills. Moreover, in that time period there is more than $150,000 for which I cannot account. Champagne problems, yes, but since we are living paycheck to paycheck and NOT in the lap of luxury, also irresponsible problems because the only reason there are problems is because of HIS problem. Nonetheless, he looks at me and says he wants me and only me because his life is so happy and he never realized what he had, yadda yadda yadda. Maybe true, maybe not. Time will tell. I am not counting on it even though life would be so much simpler.

My biggest mistake was confronting before I had the truth. I could have learned so much more if I had been able to control my rage and despair. And every time I learned something, I found myself unable to control – I hate to admit that I have broken a 60-inch television. My laptop. His laptop. His new i-Phone. A wall (by slamming a door into it). An 80-inch television. His brand-new tires. None of this makes me proud – I have never been a person fueled by rage and I have never acted out in anger before. Every time I did so, he replaced the item without complaint. How stupid of me – because quite frankly, that’s a face lift and a breast lift. That new collagen treatment that allows you to look 10 years younger without a facelift. Lawyer’s fees. One of those amazing sectional sofas advertised in Architectural Digest that would look GREAT in my family room even though kids/dogs/cleats would ruin it and make it hygienically unappealing (much like my husband!) fairly quickly.

My mother, a very wise woman, kept advising me that this was my time to act - to act as hard as if I was trying to win an Academy Award. She was right - as long as I acted like I was sweet and working toward reconciliation, but strong and taking no crap about the past, I was able to get the information I needed. When I put him in a position of defensiveness, email accounts got locked down and I lost the opportunity to get information that would have been so helpful. He didn’t need to know what I knew – that only gave him time to come up with a “plausible” explanation.

If your H is hiding information already and pretending that he wants R, I would say that he is still cheating or hasn't decided to give up his "fun past-times." I would force the question with a post-nup giving you everything in the marriage. Would you like to hear what my post-nup gives me? I got full-title to our house - plus he has to pay taxes, mortgage, and maintenance until it is paid off, plus enough money to pay my bills, plus half of his business and the right to review business and personal finances whenever I want, but he is required to do it at least quarterly. That doesn't include child support, which would be added to the pile. I also got the right to have his computer and phone forensically checked on request, STD testing on request, health insurance until I die, a life insurance policy for $1 million with me as beneficiary and my sons sharing the lot if something happens to me. Also, he agrees not to live with anyone besides me until our younger son is 22. Also, none of this changes if I initiate divorce or if I re-marry or win the lottery or get a great-paying job. His lawyer reviewed it, he signed it, and then we took the added step of appearing in family court just to get it even more on the record.

I live in Texas, which is not an alimony state - so this is huge. Had I just filed for divorce, I would have gotten 50 percent of the equity in the house, 50 percent of the current value of his business, and 50 percent of our (admittedly ridiculously small) assets. This post-nup means that I am the major debtor of his entire life. As well should be, given the current level of progress toward lasting trust.

Stick it to him - if he agrees to abide by pretty onerous conditions, it may be that he's willing to move forward.

Please be mindful that my husband’s situation entails him actually being able to work and make money – barring that, I get very little. So it's beneficial for me not to go telling stories...

Except to my friends ;-)


me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 45
DS: 15, 12
Ignored Signs: 2002. 2008, 2009. 2010.
DDay: Mother's Day 2013.

Liar, liar. I wish your pants were (literally) on fire.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Texas
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