[This message edited by Missymomma at 9:50 AM, September 30th (Monday)]
Choosing Hope...not sure I can chime in much...My H does not have any stipulations in his divorce decree from his first marriage and I don't have anything in mine for my exhusband from first marriage...except for the morality clause (no overnights with members of the opposite sex). My experience with this is that unless the court has supervised visitation because of behavior enforced...then there really isnt' a damn thing you can do. Their visitation time is their time to do whatever they want and they can bring anyone around them unfortunately. You can't really protect them, but you can fix them when they come home to you. Sorry to not be more helpful...but that's been my experience. The other thing is you can put a ton of stuff in your divorce decree...but honestly, most is not enforceable and the courts don't want to be bothered with it.
I'm having a really really really shitty week. I have hit the 3 month mark and all of a sudden I feel like I'm back at square one and I'm pissed. I'm mad at everything...I'm mad that I married an addict - I'm mad that he has to go to so many therapies and he's not around to help out with our family. I hate that he has to go to all of this to not have sex with another woman. I'm just fed up with all of it. It is all just so exhausting! I think I'm having my own pity party and this is probably a very normal phase. What triggered all of this was he had two back to back night meetings and then an all weekend retreat to work the steps. There was a ton going on with all of the kids and house and activities and it was all just laid on me to figure it out and get it done. So I once again am the responsible one that doesn't fuck up, takes care of the kids and the house, doesn't make the wrong choices and the reward I get for that is my husband is gone for basically 5 days to "work" on himself. No good deed goes unpunished.
Had MC therapy session today. SAWH talked about how great our weekend was, that we've been getting along so well lately, haven't had an argument in 2 weeks, etc. So then the MC brought up the fact that we are still not sharing a bedroom (this has been the case since end of July). I asked SAWH to move out to the guest bedroom since we are essentially roommates and have been for a very long time, much longer than the time his affair was going on and I don't want to put on a dog and pony show that we are a married couple, because we aren't...and we very well might not be after 9 more months if I decide I can't live like this. Anyway, I don't want him to return to the bedroom until we figure things out and know we are going to be a married couple - in every sense of that term. I've been getting confusing messages from him. He said he is still detoxing, but he says he takes a viagra when we go out because maybe it will happen.WTF? I just find this so confusing. Which is it? Are you detoxing or are you trying to move this forward. He seemed uncomfortable when pressed by me during the MC on this. Also said this (having sex with me) is something he's working on with his CSAT, who says we should go slow and build up from there. Well, we really haven't gotten close to anything resembling having sex again - he hasn't indicated that this is something he is interested in...and he's made it clear he doesn't want to be pressured so I have backed WAY off on the subject. So I don't understand where his thought process is at all on this. He keeps saying he "wants it to mean something, he doesn't want to go through the motions, he doesn't want to have to fake anything..." The MC said "it sounds like you are still healing, is that the case?" And he said yes, he still feels depressed and down and not energetic much of the time.
From my perspective, having him move out of the bedroom was the BEST decision. It gave me such clarity and really slowed me down about wanting to have sex (which up until recently I was sure I wanted and was absolutely frustrated and upset and felt so rejected about). I am not sure having sex is something I want to do.There are a lot of things that still need to be followed through on - such as the disclosure (what if stuff comes out of that that is a surprise to be and I go through a lot of pain again processing it like I have processed the affair for the last 6 months) and getting all of the financials in order - something else that we are supposed to be doing. And I definitely don't want to put myself out there for someone who doesn't want me, that is for sure. After the MC session, I felt like I need to take an Ativan - my stomach is all tied up in knots and I am really emotional. In one sense, it's like being rejected all over again, and in another it is realizing my own misgivings about all of this, not to mention that the future of our marriage is on the line.
Has anyone else been through something similar with their SAWS?
I, too, think the trolling was a relapse because it was active. For me, pornography would be a slip because it's so passive (in his case). I mentioned his intelligence not because that gives him a pass of any kind but because it's always been accompanied by intolerance. So what I was trying to say is that he can't feign remorse. He just can't fake it very well. When he's acting out, he's petty and demeaning--even if it's small ways only I would notice. When he's not acting out, he's his best self and he's loveable and he's obvious. So, until I have a better way, that's how I gauge his recovery efforts. If he's being nice, he's doing well; if he's being snippy, he's slipping. Does that make sense? And, no, I haven't told him his "tell."
I want my husband to desire me. That's understandable for a woman married to a man she loves. But is it acceptable when married to a sex addict? Do I feed that out-of-control drive by dressing in lingerie, by indulging in sexting with him, by participating in "quickies," by spending time on my outer beauty? Or do I just do for me what feels good for me and leave it to him and his therapy and his group and his sponsor (when he gets those latter two) to teach him how to differentiate between love and lust?
[This message edited by RippedSoul at 1:52 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)]
He's also been open. Plus, while he was gone, he was as transparent as he could be. During the trip, he didn't offer up details on every time he had to work with or associate with her, but he answered any questions--without being disgruntled--that I asked. Finally, I stopped asking because his transparency showed he had nothing to hide.
We had dinner out on Saturday and he apologized, though, for being so moody the past couple months. His meds (anti-depressants and anti-anxiety pills) are being adjusted and he's all over the place emotionally. From hour to hour, he feels different but he still feels connected to me and wants to be with me--even in his most distant moods.
He sometimes wants sex and sometimes just intimacy--skin to skin, arms and legs entwined cuddling. Last night, while snuggling, he said that he was feeling a lot of hope about us and our future. He's always been very tactile, but even for him he's been touching me a lot--sometimes sexually, but sometimes just sweetly. Tonight, he came home from work (first day back after two weeks away) tired and hurting (headache). I know he just wanted to be grumpy but he held it in (oh, he's a rage addict, too--never physically, but verbally). He didn't talk a lot, but every time he walked past me, he'd touch me--my hair, my shoulder, my waist.
I know he's battling demons, but as long as he includes me on his team, I'll support him. I'll even accept disagreements. It's when he benches me (or fires me) that there are problems. I need the channels of communication to be open. There are times I feel like the odds are stacked against us, but others when I feel very hopeful.
You sound strong, and I think it's great you are enforcing your boundaries. But you might want to revisit them and find out if he is taking viagra often for MB/etc and see if you still want him in the house or to consider R if he is. (((hugs)))
My opinion ONLY: Most of my life I have dressed UNSEXY because I got too much unwanted attention from men and any attention I got was unwanted. I respected myself so fully that I forgot I was a woman, not just a generic human being. I have always hated men's sexuality because it is so foreign to me - and most women who understand men's sexuality.
NOW - if I could turn the clock back entirely (aside from never meeting my husband) I would totally dress as gorgeous, attractive, classy and SEXY as possible at all times. I wasted my life worrying about what others thought and how they reacted to me, especially my SAH.
In my opinion, if you want to dress classy with a little sexy - go for it. But stripper sexy is just gross and I see that everywhere now and it is JUST GROSS. But classy sexy is always sexy and always attractive. So, if you want your man to find you attractive - he will anyway and if you want to have him see you dress sexy, that's all good too. But again, sexy/classy is way cool but crossing the line to slutty, which is way in right now, especially with the teenagers who wear shirts and call them dresses is just pathetic.
As for the trip - so glad it is over. Does he have to travel a lot? As for the rage, yes, my H was also a rager, but I was so used to it I didn't even really think twice about it - I just thought it was his personality. I'd try to help him when he would rage at co-workers or bosses, but with me, I just let it go - WRONG, now I know - hind site, you know? But now that he has been sober for a year and a half his rage has quieted. Of course, me raging back at him 200% worse stops him after a few minutes, but it still takes him a few minutes to stop, because, see ragers always think they are right and always want to be the loudest and always want to have the last word.
Now I have the last word or he gets kicked the sh*t out. Intimidation goes a long way with these f*cking addicts, as they have so long been used to intimidating others and others just accept it thinking it's just their personality, when really it is a way for them to control everyone they can.
Good luck and regards, Rip
[This message edited by trappe25 at 2:09 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]
Yesterday I found a weird charge on our credit card, it was only 7 dollars, but I still freaked out, my mind goes to so many places, lately it has been going to ďis he buying condomsĒ. I still donít know what it is but after doing some searching it seems like itís a convenience store.
I know I have big codependency issues right now, I check his location, his computer history every now and then, his card/cash transactions, as well as email and his phone, although he volunteers most of this information to me all the time. How do I stop it? How do I stop checking his things, I have 0 trust in him.
My reasoning is this: I do not want to stay in this marriage if he is acting out. If I donít check his things, I will never know, because he will not tell me he did, and he will lie to me. So how would I know? I would not, and hence I would be stuck in a fake marriage again, and he will think he can still get away with it. He is such a good liar, I doubt everything he says. All our marriage I never suspected anything was wrong, because he lies so well, I canít even tell by his actions, because he was always fine before. I donít have that thing where wives can know their husbands are lying by looking into their eyes, or because he acted a certain way. I have none of that.
Even though we are not intimate at all right now, I do not want to put myself at risk for disease and emotional pain again in the future, and thatís why I check. I donít know how to let go. For those of you later in recovery, did you go through this? How did you stop it? How do you feel about not checking his things, do you actually trust his actions? I do not want to be codependent, but I donít know where to start.
Though I wouldn't say I'm in recovery, because that to me is a 12 step term and I do not attend 12 steps anymore, I would like to weigh in a little. I am over 1 - 1/2 years out. I am much older than you.
You seem to think you are codependent because you do not trust your husband and because you check up on him. This is exactly why I am not a 12 stepper. I will not be blamed for my husband's cheating and will never call myself co-dependent. Even my last CSAT therapist stressed that co-dependent is an over used word and really pertains to actions that hurt you, not protect you. I hope that helps. Co-dependency in wives of SA's is such a buzz word and when I attended COSA it was just a given that all wives were co-dependent. Really sick - very, very sick theory.
Anyway, in my opinion why would you trust your husband. He is a cheater. He has proven to you he is a cheater. He has proven to you that he will use your money to pay prostitutes to do sexual things with him. And then you question whether or not you should trust him. Gosh - I am at a loss for words, even though I am still typing.
If I could go back to age 29...man, girl....
Stop being hard on yourself. Your husband was disgusting and treated you with such deep disrespect. It is not your duty to worry if you are being co-dependent because you are concerned he is f*cking massage parlor women or trolling CL or buying condoms. Maybe your SANON is helpful, I don't know, but if they are saying you shouldn't check up on him in the beginning and that you should trust him - that's a big warning sign.
I do not know if my husband will ever cheat again. I do not trust him. I live with him and have sex with him sometimes. I do not love him. I am with him because financially in CA I cannot make it on my own. I have a child with him and the child loves her father more than I thought humanly possible for any child to love a parent - that is how deep her love for him is - almost heavenly/angelic.
You have a heavy road to toll. Try not to blame yourself simply because you are reacting to such destruction your husband has brought upon you.
And it does not get easier with children.....
PJL - Glad that the two of you have started meetings! That is very strange about the photo of you. Maybe someone can chime in that has dealt with the porn part of sex addiction. Just wanted you to know that you have been heard!
AFM, I had a very interesting meeting with our MC CSAT, all by myself. She wants me to strongly detach from my SAWH at this point. He has stopped actively working recovery and his narcissistic personality traits are in high gear. She and I talked and decided that she will not treat us until my SAWH is actively working with a CSAT again. He has hit some transference with his CSAT and is angry at him and not going to his sessions alone with him. She was going to talk with his CSAT, so it will be interesting to see what happens after his group meeting with his CSAT tonight. He has started going to meetings again, so who knows. It is going to take me keeping very strong boundaries, living my own life and detaching for me to be happy and healthy. It is odd but I am feeling good! Having her absolutely confirm my reality was empowering.
What I am trying to convey is that you can take away what is helpful to you in order to gain insight and perspective but you don't necessarily have to buy into the 12-step thing for yourself or label yourself as codependent. If it brings you peace and it works for you for now, that's good. Later, if you decide it's not working so well or you have plateaued and need a break, then so be it.
A couple things I think about every day from S-Anon: I can only control myself and I'm learning to take things one day at a time. These things have really helped me take care of myself and put myself as a priority.
I think what Trappe25 said is also valuable insight to what you are experiencing.
Re: checking up...you will make yourself crazy doing this stuff. At some point you will reach your saturation point. In the end, either you go with it and figure out if he is doing what he says he is doing (in my case, my H has become a lot less combative and secretive but is still not entirely transparent. - I have mixed feelings...I certainly don't want to be a nanny but I also want to know if shit's going down again...I don't think it is because his time has been more accountable...time will tell ). You just have to roll with it for awhile. Not easy, I know!
As for meetings, there are a lot of unhealthy meetings around. You have to look and find one that fits you. I tried Al-Anon when my SAWH was abusing drugs and found the groups I attended to be incredibly dysfunctional, however I know many people that have been tremendously helped by Al-Anon.
WIF - It sounds like that was a very unhealthy group. Everyone doesn't have to do 12 steps or work with a CSAT, however both of those things increase our own chances of getting out of the insanity. It is definitely take what you need and leave the rest. I do NOT identify as a co-sex addict but do as a codependent to a sex addict/drug addict/work addict.
The book by Steffens mentioned on page one of this thread is very good on this topic...
Hugs to all from Switzerland!
I will give the 2 sanon meetings a few weeks to see how they go. One group had people there for a long time and most seemed happy, the other group kind of brought me down and didn't really help. So I'll give them a few weeks to really see how it goes.