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User Topic: Another Boundary Thread
SurprisinglyOkay
♀ Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, June 12th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BS and I have been having interesting discussions about our boundaries, this week.

I thought mine were good.

I wasn't flirting.
I wasn't hugging men who weren't FOM.
I wasn't engaging men in conversations.
I thought I had it.

Because the boundary was blurry, hugging FOM, It slipped. I wouldn't approach men for hugs, but would give them if they approached me.

* we're in a 12 step fellowship where we hug as a greeting.
Being in the fellowship also means that I'm forced into social interaction with men.
We only have one Women's meeting in our area. I make it when I can.

So here are my new ones.

No hugging men (outside of family), not even FOM.

Watching closely how I act. Just because I'm not outwardly flirting, does not mean that I'm sending out the right vibe. Sharing what I learn with Chicho, my IC and my sponsor.

Being More guarded about what I share with men. Curt, but not rude answers. Not opening windows into my life. When I get anxious, in social situations, I tend to get chatty. Which invites people in without meaning to. I don't give deep personal info, but just enough to open the door.

I've started reading Not just Friends.

I've started Journaling. Making it a habit is the trick. Still working on my step work.

The whole conversation has made me really start to look at how I interact with others, and how I come across.


SO My reason for posting all this is for opinions.
But I also want to know what others boundaries are.
I realize everyone is different, so well have different needs, and different boundaries.
I need help with this

[This message edited by broevil at 1:36 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1134 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, June 12th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wasn't flirting.
I wasn't hugging men who weren't FOM.
I wasn't engaging men in conversations.
I thought I had it.

To me, those aren't boundaries. Those are rules.

Boundaries are healthy thought processes that ensure some of those rules are unnecessary.

For instance...not engaging men in conversaions. Why? Some men are great resources or offer valuable perspectives on things. I'd never get through engine rebuilds without them.

My boundary isn't don't talk. My boundary is the thought process of enjoying people not absorbing them. They're not bandaids, flotation devices, aspirin, cheering sections. I don't look to them to see myself or define myself.

Boundaries are the healthy sense of self that won't tolerate bullshit from yourself or others.

The best boundary checks are what justifications you feel are valid from those and yourself that excuse actions and behaviors.

For example...(true story) I had a hectic morning and my youngest was looking to be donated to a childless family (he can be the poster child for birth control at times), spilled coffee, heard a knock while driving...in other words, Tuesday. Got to work and my clerk picked the wrong time to ask a question I had basically done a power point presentation the day before. Took her head clean off. Felt like shit. I apologized and was about to go into the above litany when realized one had nothing to do with the other. I have an issue with speaking my mind without actually engaging my mind regardless of what pain some of what I say may cause. It's unacceptable. I'm working on it and have gotten better.  Obviously a ways to go. My boundary is the thought processes I use to stop careless thoughts becoming painful actions. Detaching from circumstances and see people are not unbreakable.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 2:07 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
libertyrocks
♀ Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, June 12th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good job, sweetie. Chico has helped me alot with my H, who seems more like you- personable, friendly, cool, likeable.

I'm glad you are setting boundaries for yourself. I always tell my H he doesn't NEED to be freinds with the opposite sex. I also tell him they DON'T HAVE to like you. Part of it for my H, is to be admired, I get it now.
In the past, he would make women laugh, tickle them, etc. Now I realize his cravings/addictions for female validation. Not saying that's you, but that's MY story.

Just met you, but proud of you that you're in 12 step. My H won't even go there. Yet. He says.


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,Recovering Alcoholic, M6yrs T13. Boys 2 & 4 1/2.
DDay #1 Nov,2012. 1 1/2 year false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 again Jan,2014
Filed for D Feb,2014.

Posts: 962 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
SurprisinglyOkay
♀ Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, June 12th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For instance...not engaging men in conversaions. Why? Some men are great resources or offer valuable perspectives on things. I'd never get through engine rebuilds without them.

I'm talking purely social situations. I talk with my landlord, the stove repair guy, and my mechanic, etc.

Maybe I need rules in place to protect my boundaries.....??

[This message edited by broevil at 7:35 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1134 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was too Engine rebuilds can be quite social.

Ok, so, what are your boundaries? You don't talk to men socially. Why? What is the thought process that is requiring that rule?

I understand not building friendships, but do you feel you need complete isolation from the opposite sex socially to be "safe"?. If so, you may, in fact, not be safe regardless.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand not building friendships, but do you feel you need complete isolation from the opposite sex socially to be "safe"?. If so, you may, in fact, not be safe regardless.

I think this has to be gone into further than this.

Your somewhat single UO, you do have a SO, but do you social conversations with Married men if their wives are not present? Also, I believe you know you are not looking for any validation whatsoever in a conversation. That can vary from person to person.

Hlessons for instance, has to put up strict boundaries about social conversations at this point. I think that sometimes boundaries can be tight until a person knows more about where they are internally.

What do you think?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:52 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Conversations? Yeah, I do. I don't ever txt, email or call but if I run into them at the store, sure. My engine rebuild thing was honestly not a joke. I've helped friend with their engines when I was married. The wives sometimes would be around, sometimes not. Never an issue. Never.

You and I have talked about this, I know. When I got divorced I didn't let my friends husband's come over and help around the pasture if I needed fences fixed because I didn't think the appearance was respectful.

My SO and I don't consider ourselves single at all so same respect applies whether married or not. He talks to women if he knows them socially often sharing things about me and vice versa. It doesn't happen a lot as neither of us go "out" much if really at all "alone".

I think self respect is a really solid boundary. When that's strong you're golden. That's my view.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:11 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think self respect is a really solid boundary. When that's strong you're golden. That's my view

I think is where the difference comes in. There are people who will blur those boundaries due to self esteem and self respect issues. That tiny bit of desire for validation creeps in and boundaries get blown.

You and I both were in those types of situations for years because of the things we like to do. Me with my dog training, I thought nothing of it. I was there for one thing only. Train my dog.

But I know with others it is different. My H is different. He has to have boundaries that are tight. While he works on his issues.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
ThoughtIKnewYa
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Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:14 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think self respect is a really solid boundary. When that's strong you're golden.
Absolutely!!

Posts: 11742 | Registered: Mar 2008
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:28 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally get that, TG. Thing is, my boundaries are "tight". I still view bro evils list as rules, rather than boundaries. Now, those rules may be key while those boundaries are being established and reinforced, but relying on them alone and calling them boundaries is dnagerous, to me.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
EmotionalFool
♀ Member
Member # 37362
Default  Posted: 4:01 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still view bro evils list as rules, rather than boundaries.

I do agree with UO. Most boundary definitions on SI has always made me uncomfortable. I really wouldn’t like to spend the rest of my life not talking to men. Or following rules. Neither I expect CL to do it.

Right now I am not talking to anybody. Males/females/kids/old friends/new friends even our family. Unless n until its absolutely needed. I wouldn’t call these boundaries. Its just that I m taking time to figure out what kind of relationships I form and why.
The fact that I am my worst enemy is agonizing . Howz not talking men gonna solve your issues if you need to be protected from yourself?
Where can you run and how long can you hide? Cheating is not the only form of self destruction.

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 4:05 AM, June 13th (Thursday)]


WW: 28 (ME)
BH: 28 (SI profile: CrappyLife)
D-Day- 15/10/12

Posts: 334 | Registered: Nov 2012
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am working on figuring out boundaries right now, what they are, and what mine are.

In my 12 step program there is a pamphlet called: Establishing Boundaries in Recovery. It defines a boundary as a limit, a verbal and physical division that separate our identities, responsibilities, feelings, needs and issues from other people's.

They also define internal and external boundaries. Right now I am working on respecting myself, speaking up for myself, being honest with m myself. I think those are good starts for my internal ones.

External-wise I think I am using more rules right now, but pretty much not taking on others feelings or trying to fix others, and respecting others boundaries, is a start.

I had an example of a boundary kicking in a few weeks ago. I was on the borderline of flirting with someone, and all of a sudden a self awareness kicked in, I saw what I was doing, I saw my pattern, and I chose to act differently. I realize that I cannot isolate myself from 1/2 of the population, and that I need to take responsibility for how I act. It felt good to actually be aware of what I was doing, instead of just being on autopilot. I saw that the boundary I was crossing was not only not respecting myself, but also looking at this other person as an object, and not respecting them.

Thanks for positing this broevil-I think the more discussions on boundaries the better. For those of us who lived so long with porous ones talking about them is helpful.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is a really great explanation badchoice.

It is very much the self awareness that has to keep you safe in the long run.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Lordy another Boundary thread! I think that is awesome! So bravo Broevil for bringing it up. Boundaries are really pretty simple, it is what keeps them up and together that is tough. Boundaries are built with self worth and value. They are not built by the spouse or SO.

At first, sure it is just a set of rules that you and the BS decide on, but if it doesn't become more than that and deeply personal to yourself then it will not last, it will become compliance and loose its value.

What the person with boundary issues must come to realize is that self worth and value is priceless, you can't pawn it, loan it or let someone take it from you. When that realization happens you have some pretty cool boundaries.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
unforgivable5
♂ Member
Member # 38797
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes... like badchoice and TG said, I think self awareness is the key. being aware of what is happening at the moment, thoughts,feelings, and actions. Rules are to be followed but boundaries to be understood so they are easy to follow. Is that it? thank you for this thread. Just gave me a "holy shiza" moment.


WH
D-day 3/4/13

Posts: 80 | Registered: Mar 2013
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It doesn't happen overnight so it is kinda like a slow burn.
1. Rules - defined by BS/WS
2. Realization of what is going on around us and our role in it.
3. Self worth and value that you when someone comes around looking to blur a boundary and take some of your worth, you are like "Ah hell no you didn't" Sounds better when you move your head left to right


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At first, sure it is just a set of rules that you and the BS decide on, but if it doesn't become more than that and deeply personal to yourself then it will not last, it will become compliance and loose its value.

^^^^good shit^^^^
tis one reason, at this point, I refuse to try to enforce/set boundaries/rules for SLHim.

broevil,
I think you are on the right track here, what is it they say in the rooms?
you are exactly where you need to be?

sometimes you change the immediate behavior, and the thought process follows...
sometimes it works in reverse...

if this is working for you, and getting you closer to your goals, then keep at it.

progress...not perfection


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
SurprisinglyOkay
♀ Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the replies!!
This has helped me a lot!

but do you feel you need complete isolation from the opposite sex socially to be "safe"?. If so, you may, in fact, not be safe regardless.

No. Maybe I lacked clarity.

Breaks down like this: (10 points to whoever gets what movie that's from )

We have men who are FOM. I interact with them.

I don't want to shut out men. Especially not in recovery, that would be shutting out 70% of the experience that I may need to hear.

I'm not someone who had boundaries and slipped. I've NEVER had them. I don't know what they are.

I started this thread looking for examples of others boundaries.

But this:

It doesn't happen overnight so it is kinda like a slow burn.
1. Rules - defined by BS/WS
2. Realization of what is going on around us and our role in it.
3. Self worth and value that you when someone comes around looking to blur a boundary and take some of your worth, you are like "Ah hell no you didn't" Sounds better when you move your head left to right


This is awesome. Thank you, it helps a lot!

TG:

There are people who will blur those boundaries due to self esteem and self respect issues. That tiny bit of desire for validation creeps in and boundaries get blown.

He has to have boundaries that are tight. While he works on his issues.

Yes. I see me in this.


EF:

The fact that I am my worst enemy is agonizing . Howz not talking men gonna solve your issues if you need to be protected from yourself?
Where can you run and how long can you hide? Cheating is not the only form of self destruction.

I don't know... I feel that at least I can change myself. I can make myself better. I am the only thing I can change. I don't have to be my, or anyone else's worst enemy.

Maybe they need to be protected from me.

I've tried running and hiding for years. There is nowhere to go.

I still view bro evils list as rules, rather than boundaries

They are rules. But I thought they were boundaries until I realized that I have no idea what boundaries are!!

BC: Thanks for the phamplet suggestion. We found it online and I'll look at it later.

I was on the borderline of flirting with someone

For me this is too far.

SLH Thanks...


[This message edited by broevil at 1:33 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1134 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd like to think I am instilling boundaries that will become more and more natural. I can give 2 examples, although they may not seem like boundaries but rather modified behavior.

I was walking down the street the other day and had a green dress on. I was speaking to my mom on the phone so my concentration was on my convo. Some guy says that's a nice dress as I walk past. I said thank you and keep walking and talking to my mom. He says have a nice day, I nod and kept talking. I feel like externally I was polite, did not encourage and disengaged as quickly as possible. Internally i assessed. I realized that the compliment was nothing to me, didn't effect my mood, or my levels of elation or depression. This kind of comment would have given me a little pep in my step before, now, nothing.

The second thing is my behavior around men socially. I take a dance class sometimes. Been going for a few months and it's always the same people. My BFF goes with me and she and I talk to a couple of the regulars there while waiting for the class to start. There are a couple men there who I enjoy dancing with because they have been taking the classes longer and when I have trouble learning a step they take it slow and help teach me. I know one is married as he mentioned his wife used to take the classes as well and he was trying to get her back in. This was said during a dance as small talk because it feels strange to just stare at your partner silently and I am not comfortable dancing in a full embrace. I do not end up dancing with him every class only if the rotation brings me there. So the last class I danced with him during one of the rotations and asked how he was and if his wife would be coming back to the classes soon. Then during the dance I mastered a difficult step and said "I like dancing with you." He asked why with a look and I thought about my statement and clarified immediately because I was not flirting or making overtures but in my mind I knew the reason why, he helped me learn the steps, nothing else. I couldn't care less about his personal life and we talk simply because we share space for a dance for a few minutes. So I said well you yelled at me to make me stop being nervous one day and help me learn the steps. That's it nothing else said. We rotated again and for the rest of the night I thought if I had said something wrong, thinking what else i need to put in place socially so nothing gets misconstrued again.

Those are my examples. Most of my boundaries are in reaction to each situation as they come. I have cut out all men as friends and socially I keep it impersonal and in the situation. If something bothers me I examine it, figure out if my actions were above board and how I handled the situation. I am hoping it will all be natural one day and I will not examine each minute detail so much but vigilance makes me realize where I still need changes.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2760 | Registered: Oct 2012
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Breaks down like this: (10 points to whoever gets what movie that's from )

broevil

Pulp fiction..do i get 10 points???


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2533 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
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