In a smaller test, of which I know nothing except the results, 1% of women admitted cheating in interviews. when the same sample filled out a questionnaire, 6% admitted cheating. Same sample.
It's very possible the GSS under-reports the frequency of cheating.
[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 8:06 PM, July 4th (Thursday)]
She acted like a woman who wanted to fight for someone. That wanted to win somebody. And todayore of the same. I love you, I need you, and repeated texts.
I wanted her to see that I was ready to go and what she would see when I was gone.
Congrats, sounds like you finally reached her and that maybe she finally gets it. So does this give you hope that R is possible? You sounded done in earlier posts.
Happy 4th of July to my BM brethren.
She kept saying she was sorry.
You know what her words are worth. Actions brother, and I don't mean the porn star stuff, the real deep down shit. Stuff that really brings about change. How much of this was just because she wanted to show you the magic of her vay-jay? It's all she's got til she makes those changes. That enough to satisfy you?
She acted like a woman who wanted to fight for someone. That wanted to win somebody. And today more of the same. I love you, I need you, and repeated texts.
Great first step, what's the follow through? Stepping up with IC? Reading books? How is she changing herself, rather than just doing what it takes to get you to take your eyes off the prize? Flanking maneuver?
What are your expectations of her? How many has she fulfilled? Was it enough to get you to postpone filing? What's your next step?
No 2 X 4's here, just want you to truly survey the terrain. Question every damn thing til you are satisfied. Wasn't that long ago she broke your toothbrush.
If you're going to D, you need to detach. Trying to make her jealous isn't detaching. Letting yourself get seduced is the opposite of detachment.
It almost sounds like your goal is to humiliate your W and thereby bring her to R (by which I mean: do the work of R). I can understand that, but if that's what you want, the sooner you acknowledge it, the better, for your own benefit.
Why are you messing with the 19 year old woman? It sounds like you're not being honest with her. If that's the case, that doesn't help you at all. In fact, if she as any self-respect, you've probably cost yourself points with her.
Detach from your W. D. Then have fun, with honesty and integrity, and no voices saying you're playing unpleasant games that could end up with you in even more pain than you are now.
The way I read your last few posts, you’re still playing your WW’s games. You’re just trying to change the rules so that you win. The thing is when these types of games are played nobody wins. Nobody gets healthy. You just end up fighting for power and control, so that each of you can ‘come out on top’ and ultimately end up hurting each other and others. The only way to win is to stop playing.
Warning pretty big 2x4 coming:
As far as the 19 yr old, you used her to make your WW jealous (even admitting that she was nothing more than a tool to you). You talk about using her to help yourself feel better (why does your SELF esteem rely on others?). You lied to your WW about her. Not only are you playing games in your own life, but your stepping out and influencing young women. With people doing this to young girls no wonder this doesn’t last for many women:
in addition they don't hate men yet
She had sex with OM to manipulate him and to keep his attention, now she had sex with you to do the same. Not that she sounds like she needs any lessons, but you are teaching her how to manipulate you.
Picking a fight with your WW to have an "excuse" to leave and then deciding which woman you will be with based on sex (porn star versus young PT enthusiast) sounds like approaching wayward thinking.
Who are you trying to remind that you have balls and self-esteem; the WW you are D-ing, the WW you still hope to R with, or yourself?
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:00 AM, July 5th (Friday)]
Applications for Head Marble Collector are now being accepted. Must possess esoteric wit, a fondness for beer and chess, have a sense of humor, and an aversion to drinks that women label as "yummy".
I do wonder what this will do to his membership in the NO MA'AM club though. If I remember correctly, NB pretty much demands everything is YES MA'AM for a while.
good luck jj, safe traveling.
Please take a moment to reassess your REaction to your WWs crazymaking. Don't play that game, the slippery slope is insidious and hard to detect. One of the reasons I lurk a lot at the wayward threads. You can learn a lot there.
Your playing the 19 yr old is borderline EA. if that's what you want to do, file first. Integrity above all.
Enough on the "not a date" hang out.
As for your WW, yes, it's all words. FTN, as our recently lost jj would say. Whatever you do, if its R you seek, more hurt will only complicate matters. Her crying and loving you and sex will mean nothing in a few days time if you see her still being unhealthy. ACTIONS she takes and is consistent in are all that matter. Trying to manipulate an outcome will eventually only make you feel more hurt. I've been there. Instead of one spouse being manipulative, you'll have 2 who are in a spiral of sickness, don't play by those rules.
I know it's a booyah moment for you, but be careful that the cost is not something you cannot bear. Ultimatums eventually act against you, if you say the M has ended, mean it. File. Even if she's taking the right steps, file anyway. You're in the process of detachment for your own health, not her reaction. You'll have time after that to decide the outcome, so will she. A person does not unlearn a lifetime of unhealthy coping over 2 or 3 weeks and its not even been that since the last 'incident' with your WW. Hope paralyses, stop hoping that you'll win her back. She needs to come to that realisation herself. Healthy=chance at salvaging a workable M. Unhealthy=continual cycle of the mistakes of the past. It's your choice eventually.
If you're not filing stop saying that you're done/the M is ended, unless you want a new dynamic of an open M or whatever. If you keep saying that you're done and she sees she can successfully rope you in/win an extension, you've suddenly given her the realisation that she's can still manipulate you with little to no effort on her part (crying, saying I love you's and circus sex do not count as much effort anyway). BTDT, it's all surfacy and leads to no change.
Change comes from drive. Fighting to keep you is only a temporary driver. Jealousy itself is even more temporal. You're not winning this way. Read uncertainones recent post in wayward to see what I mean.
Strength brothers, lets be better men for ourselves and our kids.
Jj, say it isn't so... These rumours are false, I'll be in denial till you respond.
I'm late to the party but I can say I don't disagree with any of the advice you've been given. I know how incredibly hard it is to resist being dragged back into the fray. The expectation to 'just' have a faithful wife didn't seem to be that high, but yet here we are. You have to hold yourself above all of this. You know that and you cannot allow yourself to fall because of her shortcomings.
Revenge will get you nowhere. I've had those same thoughts myself, but I know in the end it will only bring on more pain and give you more pieces to put back together in end. It will delay an eventual return to a 'normal' life. You are playing with fire. 19?!? Regardless of age, you shouldn't be anywhere near these women who are lining up. You know you don't need the ego boost. You'll do fine on the open market if it comes to that, but for now you are still married. I may be prudish and I don't know the laws in NY, but I'd say keep them waiting until the divorce is final. Separated still means you're legally married. Divorced means your not and free to do as you wish. You never know, it is possible you could chose to R during the divorce process. Nothing is final until the judge signs the divorce decree. You don't want that on your conscience, do you? I know I have enough to wear my heart down than to add that to the list.
Stay honorable. She has taken so much away from you, deny her that privilege.
Do you know what you want? Is she capable of giving you the effort you need to R? These are the things that you need to be working on.
One of the things that I've been struggling with myself is do I REALLY want this M. My WW has given me a glimpse of true remorse. My question has been even if she turns around and is the most remorseful WW ever known, will it be enough for me. I'm been so consumed with getting to a point to be able to really work on the M, I'm not sure that I've spent enough time determining if I even truly want the M. There are really good reasons to do my best for the benefit of the kids, but besides that, do I really want her back?
Best of luck to you. Stay strong.
[This message edited by thinkingclear at 2:59 PM, July 5th (Friday)]
It can be tough to be honorable when you are down. Recognizing where we went wrong and fixing that is the honorable thing to do. I’m glad for you that you did not take it too far.
She said she never loved her OM. I said that is horrible. I can understand if it was love but if she threw us away for a fling that makes it worse.
IDK but few things came to mind when I read that. First different people react differently. Some people would be quite happy that it was “only a fling”. Second is for me I know that I really don’t know how I will react until I’ve been down a road. I know how I think I would react, but I would have never thought my reactions to this crap would be what they have been so far. Third is for me often my reaction when I am in pain tend to be defensive. When I’ve digested the pain a bit that initial reaction often was an indicator but not necessarily spot on. Last was “be careful what you ask for”.
I’ve not been around much so I just read your last poem. I’ve got to say it was beautiful AND deep. The first read I only made it through the first stanza and I was off to the races with an insight into what makes me tick. Thanks and good luck with the NB. Let the fly shine free man.
Nothing seems to get through to our WW's.
Did your actions really get through to her? Not the superficial shit, but the deep stuff. It's why it's preached so much here, change has to be something that comes from within her.
I was just being an asshole. I wanted to rub it in. Nothing was going to happen. I selfishly wanted her to feel a bit of what I have felt.
Absolutely, positively BTDT. Wasn't blaming you for that at all. 19 yo was questionable, but don't think you were gonna let it get out of hand, but that's playing with fire brother.
What's up with the M? You've got time to decide bro.
Fuck it ain't fair.
ETA: Never mind. Someone told me.
[This message edited by FacePunched at 4:18 PM, July 5th (Friday)]