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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How much of your marriage was dysfunctional because of bad marital patterns and how much was dysfunctional due to addiction issues?

The fact that your wife has been to detox twice already and doesn't have what appears to be even base-level addiction recovery concepts rumbling around in her brain tells me that insight into herself isn't one of her strong points. It also tells me that it's likely she's spun herself a narrative that one of the big reasons she drinks is to cope with how shitty you are to her. (That's like #2 on the big list of addiction rationalizations behind "I drink because my parents were shitty to me.")

Blameshifting is a core addiction issue that happens to also be a WW issue. So you need to be alert until she gets some insight. Don't carry water for shit that isn't yours.

At the same time, it probably wouldn't kill you to start looking into co-dependency literature. It's hard to survive being married to an addict without either being an addict yourself or developing co-dependent mechanisms to protect yourself from harm.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's hard to survive being married to an addict without either being an addict yourself or developing co-dependent mechanisms to protect yourself from harm.
That's for damned sure. It's really hard when you throw kids in the mix as well...the whole "let them be responsible for themselves/clean up their own mess" idea is hard to implement when you have kids that you're trying to shield. There was no way I was going to leave beer bottles laying around, or leave my wife asleep on the couch with a wine glass in her hand and wine spilled down her front and just let my 5-year old find her like that in the morning. No way.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men Only-Timeline for Gaining Respect for FWW

I don't think I ever saw that. Got a link?

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it's about 5 down on the I can relate page right now.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome to the club Whiskey River. I'm going to have a very specific image of you in my mind due to the fact I used to go to a bar by that name.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife is not fond of that thread. It's one of the first things she ever encountered with my posts at SI.

Trial by fire, anyone?


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thus explaining why an angryWAL resides there?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Most of my posts in there are unlikely to elicit calls from Hallmark's Wedding&Anniversary division.

Holy Schnikes, batman.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How much of your marriage was dysfunctional because of bad marital patterns and how much was dysfunctional due to addiction issues?

You know, it's really hard to say. Chicken and egg thing...

She became a dysfunctional alcoholic about 3-4 years ago. We had both always been drinkers, but after I got out of a bad personal period of heavy drinking, I realized that I just couldn't be hungover anymore. At some point after that, her drinking just took over her life, and that's really when all the lying started, long before the A. I started finding hidden empty bottles all over the place: wine, vodka, whatever. Lying to other friends, coworkers, family.

After her first detox, I thought she really was sober. I obviously stopped drinking altogether during that period, and things were...good? Yeah, they were pretty good. But then I found out that she started drinking the first day out of detox, and hid it really, really well. I never smelled it, she lost a ton of weight, seemed to be pretty happy. I was too. But, basically, as soon as I found out she'd been lying, it all fell apart. Things went from bad to much worse, and I think this is when the A started. Just like the drinking, it was another escape method. I'm going to refrain from talking about any specifics regarding the OM, as I know it doesn't matter. But he was something that allowed her to leave her real life for a night at a time.

But, yeah, I've been to a couple of al anon meetings, which have been kind of helpful. I understand the philosophy there, i.e. treating it as a sickness over which you have no control. But now that she's gone to another extreme, outside the marriage, it's become impossible for me to provide a supportive environment.

I want to think that she's ready this time, but I honestly just don't know. I do know that this is her issue, and I do know that the A is her issue. I'm just trying to sort things out in my head so I don't make bad decisions.

Cheers.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It also tells me that it's likely she's spun herself a narrative that one of the big reasons she drinks is to cope with how shitty you are to her. (That's like #2 on the big list of addiction rationalizations behind "I drink because my parents were shitty to me.")

And, yeah, 1000% yes.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And your wife is so concerned about how much it hurts you that she is still consoling the POSER? That's fucked up. Not exactly the behavior that screams "I'm sorry for hurting you". You don't have to file for D, but I would at least visit a lawyer. The worst thing that can happen isn't that you get divorced, it's that you stay in a marriage where you are getting sloppy seconds. Sometimes filing for D is the only wakeup call that works to save the M; it's often said here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. And the one who cares the least hurts the least. So detaching might be one of the strategies you look into.

Sorry you are here mate. I'm sorry we all are.

More great advice. I'm glad I finally stopped lurking and posted here.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

didn't know how much it would hurt me

talk about Standard Operating Procedure. There has to be an instructional video on how to have an affair. Gets passed around from one adulterer to another. I imagine it's stuck in a VHS player right now. Has a label "Zac and Miri Have a Secret Relationship"
Anybody find it, smash it, save some future smuck from having to find us here just to maintain some semblance of sanity.

WR until NC you have two things to do: 1) Detach 2) look out for numero uno. Without sobriety and NC there's nothing to work with but shadows.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so let's
talk about Standard Operating Procedure...

The first year was an EA that was, believe it or not, enabled by my WW's IC at the time. Her IC would tell her (that since OM lived 2000 miles away) that it was "good to have a friend" and "nice to have someone to try out ideas with or take risks with." Meanwhile OM was inviting her to meet him so they could have some 'fun'. My wife declined the first 3 offers. The whole time the OM's mantra was that what people don't know will not hurt them and that he didn't want to have anything that would 'hurt the marriage'.

So my WW was getting help arriving at that bull-crap notion that she didn't know how 'hurtful it would be'. What a dumb bitch really. And that IC - she was a WW herself - figures.

to me,

Blameshifting is a core addiction issue that happens to also be a WW issue. So you need to be alert until she gets some insight.

^^^ kinda ground zero

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 3:48 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay so the first place to look....the waiting rooms of shitty ICs. Must be a mail order form laying around somewhere. Or check the VHS part on that crappy VHS/DVD combo TV they have sitting there.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 3:51 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

damn guys, mine has been sober 5+ yrs, lost her job yesterday & told me she felt like drinking. She hasn't yet tho...


Shit never ends. Why didn't I stay single? Anyone know?


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Standard Operating Procedure

It's just deja vu all over again.

When her soon-to-be AP was hitting on my FWW she told him she

didn't want to have anything that would 'hurt the marriage'
.
Being the stand up guy he was, he assured her that an A would "make her marriage better". So, she went straight to the WW Playbook to see if this was true.

Never occurred to her ask me, her loving, loyal, faithful husband if I thought so too.

You really can't make this shit up.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 4:03 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crap. Sorry,64. I had started to hope that with a decade under her belt of not being a drunken slut, your wife might start to get a clue.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

me too, WAL. So far so good though. At least she told me, the old her would have hidden it...


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know what? That's a good point, 64.

And it's an even better point that you saw an opportunity to value something your wife did right and redirected my snark.

If I didn't know better, I might start to think that sounds a bit like hope, like peace, and maybe even a little affection.

I want that for you, man.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being the stand up guy he was, he assured her that an A would "make her marriage better".

And of course, you can completely trust a man who knowingly pursues another man's wife, right?

See, that's the difference between me and the OM. He is willing to accept someone else's leftovers and sloppy seconds. I prefer my sex to be exclusive. Different standards, I guess.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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