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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome here WR)))
I'd like to point out that you carried on the fine tradition of virtually all men who are new to the suck -

There's always a;
"I could've been a better husband" acknowledgement...a taking of responsibility for the state of the (old, dead)M.

Since wal pointed it out so long ago, I'd be interested in why it seems to be a pattern of men.

Not that women don't do it. It's just that it occurs with striking regularity with men.
It is another consistent theme.

I suspect the deeper reasons for it are related to our broken pickers.
Hardwiring gone awry?
IDK yet, I'm still putting it together in the *things that are true* bin. (apologies to aesir, it hasn't passed yet)

In myself, I've learned that it was about my own low self-esteem, fixing fixer-uppers made me valuable.

That was a beautiful exchange back there btwn wal & 64. Thanks wal & 64. Made a piece of my heart happy.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanted to share something gents. Our MC also gives my wife and I individual sessions from time to time. During my last IC session, she told me that she feels without reservation that my wife will never stray again. That her indiscretions were the result of a toxic mix of FOO issues, mid life changes, a marriage that had become stale and child-centric, a highly stressful event that occurred less than a year earlier (involving one of our children - she's fine now), and meeting up with someone from her youthful past who was very skilled at pushing the right buttons. Sort of a perfect infidelity storm.

She told me that she often counsels couples in situations where it's all she can do to avoid telling the BS to run and never look back because the WS is so toxic and almost certain to inflict further pain. She said that's definitely not the case with my wife and thinks that we have the potential to be very happy together for many years. And this MC has had no problem being brutally honest when called for. 5 minutes into our first session she told my wife that she didn't just betray me, she betrayed our four children.

I have to admit, the affair does seem completely out of character for my wife. The few people who know besides me were generally flabbergasted by the news. Other than TT about some really shameful and embarrassing stuff, my wife has been pretty close to a model recovering wayward, if there is such a thing.

And our MC/IC is not some hack - she has a great rep in our community and came highly recommended.

Yet despite all of that, my wife is still the same person who engaged in really bad behavior for 10 months. So I now know what's she capable of, the MC's confidence in her notwithstanding.

So it seems that I married a woman who wasn't all that likely to betray me, but did so anyway. Many times over a significant period of time. Lucky me.

Like I said in wert's post in the Reconciliation thread, this stuff is crazymaking.

Any takes on this are welcomed, as always.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 6:37 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd like to point out that you carried on the fine tradition of virtually all men who are new to the suck -

Holy shit JJ that is a great description of the menz section!
Welcome to the suck


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will say that I've come a long way from my initial response, which was crushing guilt and a feeling of responsibility for the A itself. Now it's just a tacit acknowledgement of the fact that, while I know I wasn't perfect (and far from it), this was not my doing. It ain't much, but it's a step toward relieving myself of that awful guilt.

I had the misfortune to see this play out about a year ago in a male friend who went through this, and all I kept telling him was that it wasn't his fault. He couldn't absorb that data at the time, and now I understand the mechanisms behind that inability to absolve oneself of the blame. It's a heavy, persistent feeling that I guess is natural in this situation.

BTW, that friend has become an invaluable resource to me during this trauma. His WW just straight up left him, but he's way happier now than he was in that marriage. I'm obviously not sure if that's the road I'll end up taking, but it helps to find some real empathy, whether here or through a friend.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sort of a perfect infidelity storm.

Our MC told me that to at one of our IC sessions. I wonder if that is a stock phrase?

Of course my MC did also point out my wife's lack of boundaries, need for validation, conflict avoidance, and a bunch of other shit too.

There's always a;
"I could've been a better husband" acknowledgement...a taking of responsibility for the state of the (old, dead)M

Ain't that a mother fucker? Pretty sure my wife could have been a tiny bit better of a wife...I'm not asking for a lot, just try not to suck other dude's dicks...you know, simple things.

I think we all say that early on, in part, because we tend to buy into some of the marital history re-write that our wives create. I did it too, and what I have come to recognize is that not only am I a fucking awesome husband, I am a fucking awesome person. I think my greatest asset is probably my humility.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


jj<<<glad he wasn't drinking just then.
Stay humble wonderboy. Stay humble.

444, sometimes the suck is in inverse proportion to:
His WW just straight up left him, but he's way happier now than he was in that marriage

WR - me too
I will say that I've come a long way from my initial response.
Oh.
Hell.
Yes.

Keep poking at it guys. There's something there we need to see I think.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think my greatest asset is probably my humility.

Either that or your rugged good looks

MoreWould,
Man, does this bring back some bad memories:

an A would "make her marriage better"

My wife's tagline on Ashley Madison was "Every marriage needs an affair to add spice". Her username was spicyfun. How great is that? So, if I go out and get indecent with some woman, our marriage will be twice as good. Fucking magic.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fucking magic.

Best laugh I've had all day!


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife's tagline on Ashley Madison was "Every marriage needs an affair to add spice". Her username was spicyfun
.

Fuck Tred, that sucks.

I gave it some thoughts, and I think I agree with you, my rugged good looks are probably one of the greatest things about me, followed closely by my humility.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need more work on the humility wonderboy.
I avoid mirrors.

Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh. and wonderboy. You made the quote thread.
Don't worry.
tred's in there for a dick joke.
It can't be that bad.

Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I rank my qualities in the following order: 1. Humility 2. Looks 3. Intelligence.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm about a 10 in the humility category, but only a 9.5 in the other two.

I'm also great with kids, senior citizens, and pets, but hate to brag about that.

Tred, was she trying to spice up your marriage, or someone else's?

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 8:36 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's always a;
"I could've been a better husband" acknowledgement...a taking of responsibility for the state of the (old, dead)M

My initial response of responsibility is shaped by the marriage dynamics prior to discovery of the A. At least in mine I knew that things weren't perfect. I was already working on making the marriage better. Compromising here, doing extra there, paying more attention to her here, trying to make life easier for her there. And on and on with the little things I was doing in order to improve the imperfect.
Meanwhile her approach to improving the marriage was filling those perceived deficiencies with another mans penis. In the process ignoring her own shortcomings, and instead placing all the blame on what I wasn't doing. Therefore all prior conversation had a tendency to focus on what I needed to fix.
So now we hit D-day, I'm still in that frame of mind....what can I do better to make the marriage better. Similar to why on D-day and after we still love them, we loved them the day before, it can be hard to turn that feeling off in an instant.
Initially we are still trying to make a better life and marriage for ourselves.

Amazing how much this shit blows back up in their face. Now I realize all those extra things I was doing prior to the A amounted to shit. 99% of the problems in the marriage, weren't problems with me, they were problems with those selfish deficiencies running around in that dusty cobweb of neurons she calls her brain.
Now I'm smarter, I understand how faulty my perceptions were. At D-day I viewed things as 50-50 split for who created issues in the marriage. Now fuck that! She gets no benefit of the doubt, she can take credit for 99% of the shit in our marriage. For 4 years she bailed on it. She wasn't trying to fix shit, she was only worried about keeping her secret friend a secret.

***ETA
In short...old habits die hard. Unfortunately I was in the habit on thinking our marriage mattered to both of us. I no longer feel any need to take responsibility. I (like wonderboy) was a good fucking husband (pun intended)! She can recognize or walk. I know plenty who see how good of a man I am, she thinks poser is better than me, she has an open invitation to have him. So far she's still here.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 10:23 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

great posts all around, sorry youre here WR))) <---- THAT is a jedi side hug

I will say that I've come a long way from my initial response, which was crushing guilt and a feeling of responsibility for the A itself.

EXACTLY where I started and languished for a few months. FTN (fuck that noise). The A is ALL on HER and on top of that I second

At D-day I viewed things as 50-50 split for who created issues in the marriage. Now fuck that! She gets no benefit of the doubt, she can take credit for 99% of the shit in our marriage. For 4 years she bailed on it. She wasn't trying to fix shit, she was only worried about keeping her secret friend a secret.

the 50/50 stuff is bullshit - mine carried out her A's (or hid them) for the majority of our M, which makes the shitty M HER issue, not mine..


She said that's definitely not the case with my wife and thinks that we have the potential to be very happy together for many years.

you sure this MC doesnt just say this to every couple she sees? dont want to be a downer bro, but better to be on your guard.

At least in mine I knew that things weren't perfect. I was already working on making the marriage better. Compromising here, doing extra there, paying more attention to her here, trying to make life easier for her there. ..... In the process ignoring her own shortcomings, and instead placing all the blame on what I wasn't doing. Therefore all prior conversation had a tendency to focus on what I needed to fix.....what can I do better to make the marriage better.

amen to all of this brother, seems like there is a BMenz script out there too...

not only am I a fucking awesome husband, I am a fucking awesome person. I think my greatest asset is probably my humility.


i am humbled by your humility and good looks.

Men Only-Timeline for Gaining Respect for FWW

whaaaa....????? Oh Shiatzu, I NEVER seen this one... "meeting your teacher at the grocery" indeed. Time for some catch up

angryWAL, I be your new best friend.... woohoo


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DR, thanks for your narrative. It describes how I have been feeling over the last few weeks.

Jack


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC
We find strength in each other!

Quite a revelation though huh. Here we are trying to be better husbands and come to find out our ww has been stacking the deck against us the whole time.

Not sure how much time you guys have spent in vegas, but I used to go all the time with my boys. Its the only way not to lose your shirt at the blackjack tables. Fill all the seats with people having the same strategy, nothing illegal. Just keeps some cigar smoking jackass drinking whiskey sours and money to burn from continually hitting and taking the dealers bust cards. Anyway somewhere along the way the casino figures out we know each other and sends in what we called "the ringer". They call in a dealer change, two deals in you know things aren't looking good, third deal you know your fucked. Get up, walk away, you'll be lucky to win 2 out of 10 hands. The point to my story.....
My own fucking wife was "the ringer" for my marriage. I'd tell her she looked nice, she pulls an ace. I clean the house top to bottom on my days off so she can come home and relax, she deals me a queen on my 12. The game was rigged. She countered every positive with a negative, she was actively sabotaging it all. If I had known I wouldn't have been playing. I would have been at the sportsbook betting some something that wasn't rigged...like NBA games


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:56 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The infidelity storm, I thought you wouldn't hurt this much, I thought you didn't care, we are just friends, etc.

Seriously, someone (I vote WAL) should write a tongue-in-cheek tragicomic WW Textbook. A chapter for gaslighting, another one for TT, one for blameshifting and so on. Add a special section in the appendix for jealousy immediately after the XBH dates for the first time. You get the idea.

One could say that WWs could actually use it as a textbook. Don't worry, they know it by heart.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1160 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning Sal,

During my last IC session, she told me that she feels without reservation that my wife will never stray again.

This statement sounds more like "What are the odds of rolling all fours again?" than having any substance.

Life is stressful, there are people skilled at manipulating, and there are more changes in life than just mid-life. What has the MC/IC and your FWW done to address her toxic FOO issues? What has your FWW done to develop and practice defending boundaries? To better self-soothe and deal with stress?

Less than 5 months does not seem to be a lot of time to have identified and addressed FOO issues. My FWW has been working on this for 2.5 years now, and while better she still struggles with reverting back to form, especially in times of stress.

Our MC/IC has indicated that FWW is doing much better in many areas and given me examples. He has asked what fears or issues I have that cause me to still be on the fence about D or not. We talk about these things, but I cannot envision him stamping FWW "CURED" and sending us on our way.

You may be on a steeper curve to R than we were. It took about 6 months for the TT to end with us, and a year for FWW to chase down the path I was on and declare she wanted our M to work. I am comfortable that with the behaviors I currently see from FWW and the relationship I have now with her that she is not going to be involved in an A in the short-term. I am a long way from ever feeling that long-term this would never happen again.

the 50/50 stuff is bullshit

Agreed, FWW handed nearly all of them to me after dday. She said a couple of times that my having to forgive her for her As made it easier for her to forgive me for being a crappy husband. The couple of times that she gave specific examples, I was able to explain my thought process and intention, and it was her miss-perceptions that created the problem. Today, she owns that nearly all the problems were based in her behaviors and miss-perceptions, and those that were not directly of her creation were out of my response to a dysfunctional relationship.

I was very willing to take on the blame because I knew that I could fix me. Relying on FWW to make things right in the M was a scary proposition given my M history.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That was a beautiful exchange back there btwn wal & 64. Thanks wal & 64. Made a piece of my heart happy.

Me too. I would just add to what WAL said. 64 has earned my respect through many a great post and most of all perseverance. I want good things for you too 64. And trying to not be too sappy - for all of you.

take care..



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
Long Gone
♂ Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lol.....the suck.....

I havent heard that for years.....

Its funny....the first time I heard that I was at Camp Darby at Benning.....the last time I heard that was my inner voice on DDay telling me...."welcome to the suck my friend"


D-Day 11/26/10

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