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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
PowerGlo
♂ Member
Member # 34132
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well said Tred, well said.


Married 27 years...
DDay #1 11/11/11 - AFF profile with 10-15 boy toys.
DDay #2 1/13/2012 - still at it with the AFF boys.
1/17/2014 - Divorced
I knew the moment had arrived
For killing the past and coming back to life


Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NW Indiana
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question, what are your thoughts on the WW referring to the A as a "mistake"?

It tends to piss me off, which is why WW has only said that one time.

Adding two numbers and coming up with the wrong answer is a mistake. Driving to a hotel room or wherever to meet POS, taking off her clothes, getting into bed with him and committing adultery is purposely planned out. The least she can do is admit it!


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TC

I walked in on her the other day crying in our rented bedroom saying how hateful and mean I've become. She said she knew she deserved it and would have to find a way to deal with it.

When she is crying because you are not being mean to her instead of crying for what she has done will be a key moment.

When my W was like that I tended to remind her that I am being mean because her choices caused me to feel this way, to not respect her, to less tolerant of any of her behaviors. She choose to cheat and she has to live with the consequences. Feeling sorry for herself ? Yeah that isn't selfish (sarcasm)

Tred. Spot on man. It is a choice. Everything else are just details that confuse the original act.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When she is crying because you are not being mean to her instead of crying for what she has done will be a key moment.

When my W was like that I tended to remind her that I am being mean because her choices caused me to feel this way, to not respect her, to less tolerant of any of her behaviors. She choose to cheat and she has to live with the consequences. Feeling sorry for herself ? Yeah that isn't selfish (sarcasm)


My thoughts exactly and we had a very similar discussion last night. It was our anniversary and we actually had a decent discussion on the status of our M. She is making some progress. I don't think I've seen her cry more than a dozen times during our whole M so even allowing her emotions to surface is progress. She is finally taking blame. She acknowledges that I should be angry and my being less tolerant of her is part of her consequences. She still has a tinge of self-pity though and a very fragile self-esteem because she gets very little external validation from me as of late.

The problem for me continues to be a significant level of indifference. Her mother sent us both a long text congratulating us on our anniversary and all I could think was "So, it's just a date and the first one in two years that my WW hasn't been actively betraying me. I'm not sure what our M even means. How many years is it anyway? Does the time during her A count? Did we start over? Have we even committed to starting over yet?" There was no pride or loving feelings present in me yesterday and my wife knew it. I don't have complete apathy but I sure do have a whole lot of 'I don't really care at this point' rattling around in my head.

Question, what are your thoughts on the WW referring to the A as a "mistake"?

This is exactly how my WW likes to refer to her A. Pisses me off something fierce. In my mind her ONE MISTAKE is more like thousands upon thousands of really bad choices. Every minute she talked to him, every text, every e-mail, every kiss, every touch, every adulterous and disgusting act are all added together to form the substance of her MISTAKE. At any point she could have chosen differently. She could have ended it. She could have come clean. Instead she chose to continue her life of lies, deceit and infidelity over living as a loving, loyal and respectful wife. She has told me several times that she has only made ONE MISTAKE as if committing adultery nearly 100 times with ONE POSER is somehow better than having had multiple POSERs. It is downright evil when you think about. It was calculated and premeditated and in her case ongoing until she was caught.

I guess I would second that it...

My deepest, most innermost thoughts are that it pisses me off.


[This message edited by thinkingclear at 12:13 PM, July 22nd (Monday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
slater13
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Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My fWW does not use mistake either. She calls it a series of bad decisions or choices. I think i would call it a total breakdown in judgment. But whatever, semantics.

My fWW and I have made a material breakthrough in the past week. About a month ago I started seeing a male IC, who is the husband of our female MC. Our MC suggested I see him to deal with my issues. Also, I quit going to MC, telling my fWW to see our MC alone until she had a grip on her issues.

My IC has been great. Last week, when I went in, he said the problem is simple, I (the hurt party) have been the over- functioning one and she the under- functioning one. Meaning, I am doing all the work (reading books/ forums, whatever) to fix the marriage and she is doing very little. He said that has to change. I was like- "NO SHIT!". I have been saying this all along. She needs to lead this for it to work. He agreed and told his wife (wife's IC now) the same thing. That night my wife saw her IC and holy shit, I don't know what they said but my fWW is a different person. She has started reading on Wayward regularly. She sends me notes. But her overall demeanor has done a 180. I am not sure it will continue, but it really looks like she is starting t "get it". For the first time in awhile I am hopeful.

I am working on my part- need to stop reading and posting here as much to not trigger myself. Working on my internal dialog ( not calling her bad names to myself).

Just wanted to pass this along.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2013
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW's are great at lying by omission.
They did make a mistake
They got caught.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They did make a mistake
They got caught.

lol, lol, lol.

When my W was like that I tended to remind her that I am being mean because her choices caused me to feel this way, to not respect her, to less tolerant of any of her behaviors

TBH, I think I'm in agreement and I'm just having a wording problem.

her choices caused me to feel

Having a problem with the words here. Don't I get a choice in my reactions? Her choices engender my choices. Might be mad, might be sad, but isn't it my choice at the end of the day?

Very tough to see that in the aftermath of tidal wave bitchsuckedadick, but it's my choice of how to react, isn't it?

Strength

ETA Hasn't she already stripped me of enough of my choices?

[This message edited by 5454real at 3:06 PM, July 22nd (Monday)]


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I (the hurt party) have been the over- functioning one and she the under- functioning one. Meaning, I am doing all the work (reading books/ forums, whatever) to fix the marriage and she is doing very little.

right there with you bruv. read codependent no more. i've (finally!) started reading it and it speaks to me. i'd really like to know what your ww's IC said to her.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, July 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

slater, your W is gripping the wheel, she's starting to drive. That is an o so beautiful thing to me. Something I did not have.

It'd be a crying shame if menz triggered you and you stopped posting.
A man's wife who owns her own shit needs to be held up here.

We got crazy. Dysfunctional. All kinds of whacked out.

You? You maybe got a driver. Let her get the feel of the wheel.
It may be that sometime somewhere you'll tell your story of hope to someone who needed to hear it just then.

You'll always have you, won't you?

Either way, it's a win. You may have lost everything to gain yourself. That's a win.
Shee it!
Some of us don't ask me how I know,
HAVE lost everything but ourselves.
I won.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A little behind, sorry catching up...

Personally, I view an A as a choice - not a mistake

A mistake was responding to the first text. A mistake was not punching him in the dick the first time he leaned over and touched her. 4 years of hiding, is intentional. Leaving me home with the kids to get laid is a cold-blooded calculated choice. Mistake my ass!!! Once again insulting wayward rationalizations.

"So, it's just a date and the first one in two years that my WW hasn't been actively betraying me. I'm not sure what our M even means. How many years is it anyway? Does the time during her A count? Did we start over? Have we even committed to starting over yet?"

Ours is coming up in a few months, and I've have this impending sense of doom and dread when I think about it. All those question you just asked are exactly what's rattling around in my head. The PA part of her affair started a few months after our 10th. If that one didn't matter, why should any anniversaries matter to me going forward.

Here's the biggest question I have though...
What is an appropriate anniversary gift? I'm wondering can I just do nothing or if that would be too much for her fragile psyche. Is a card with nothing but my name to much of an insult?

For the first time in awhile I am hopeful.

Good news slater, hoping it sticks.

Don't I get a choice in my reactions?

I've told her such over and over when it comes to dealing with her oxygen-stealing mother. Her mother does everything she can to get her worked up, I tell her she can't control that her mother is crazy and doesn't know how to love her. The only thing she has control over in that relationship is her own reactions to the needling.

Now here I sit trying to tell myself the same thing. It's damn hard though. Feels like her selfish decisions are completely steering the boat when it comes to our marriage. The 180 allows a break for ourselves outside of the marriage, but what about inside the marriage? Seems like the A dictates and consumes all in that arena.

I (the hurt party) have been the over- functioning one and she the under- functioning one

Also right there with ya.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but it's my choice of how to react, isn't it?

It is. However sometimes the reaction feels less than voluntary. Her actions triggered some very bad feelings which were covering up my fears. While the black and white answer is yes it is a choice, we all know that until we learn to control it, and make those choices, it is somewhat automatic. That is what I was referring to.

At the end of the day it takes a lot of processing to be able to move from "She ruined my life," to "She ruined her own life, mine doesn't have to be permanently impacted by this."

At some point, with a remorseful W, being nice to them is much harder on them then being mean to them. Even though that is not the intent.

I have been radically honest with my W recently and it feels pretty good. I still have some fear, but if she tries to bait me into validating her, I don't play.

W: I don't deserve you.
H: You are right. It isn't about deserve, I didn't deserve what you did either. It is my life and I choose this.

While not 100% venom free (work in progress), it was a trap so I would respond with " No you deserve me." This sounds a little weird, but I do not want her to think that me staying is guarantee. Let's face it, there are none in real life. I had a "guarantee" before and it landed me here. With a bunch of solid guys, I might add.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is an appropriate anniversary gift? I'm wondering can I just do nothing or if that would be too much for her fragile psyche. Is a card with nothing but my name to much of an insult?

Not in my opinion, but I'm biased and more than a little angry lately. I got lucky this year because we were on vacation all last week and didn't get home until late on our actually anniversary. I got by without even as much as a card. We exchanged pleasantries and went out for some PF Chang's when we got home. I think it all depends on where your M is at currently. I'm in the 'Actively Not Being the Over-Functioning Partner" stage. She doesn't really remember what we did the last few years for our anniversary anyway so why bother.

She did ask me to tell her 5 things that I liked about her during our diner. I have not been 'mean' really, just distant and words of affirmation are kinda hard for me to stomach right now. I think she is feeling the need for some 'external validation' hits. I answered her question as honestly as I could (there are things that I still like about her) but countered with asking her to tell me 5 things that she liked about herself. She struggled with an answer but managed "not much right now".

It almost made me feel a little sorry for her. I do have compassion left in me, it is just buried for the moment. I did not pile on or add insult to injury, but I also didn't try to build her back up. She is going to have to learn to self-soothe a little. I did give her credit for trying to understand what lead her to her choices and that it was refreshing for her to empathize that my anger was justified.

I agree that it is my choice how I react to her behavior (both past and present). I guess for now I am choosing to be angry a little longer. At least angry keeps me in the game. Without anger I'm sure apathy would be next.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hm, mistake, I don't like that word either. It can be technically sound but, fuck technicalities. Technically zombies are people and since they are ambulatory their deceased status is in question, but THEY WANT TO EAT YOUR FUCKING BRAIN. Technicalities aside, you deal with the monster in your face first, then the possible monsters in the shadows, and after all that shit is done and the zombie apocalypse is several years behind because it was dealt with speedily by the military that *isn't* a gang of triple cock brained morons but instead the diligent and drilled gang of badasses they are, well, then you sit around and think Are Zombies Technically People and then Are They Really Zombies and the whole What Is Being Dead Really All About, because that's a good time for it. Not when a zombie is wandering around trying to eat your buddy, you don't get into an argument about Partially Animated Ambulatory Human In Varying State of Decay, you shout DUDE FUCKING ZOMBIE and you both run, or if they're slow you amble hurriedly around a corner.

Situational context aside, calling it a mistake doesn't work for me because there is the matter of intent. If I drink a bunch of paint thinner and try to add 4 + 3 and come up with Llama, that's a mistake, because I'm trying to get 7. Drinking paint thinner was stupid, set that aside. I just needed a relatively plausible delivery mechanism for the math problem, because who the fuck gets 4 + 3 wrong?

So llama is a mistake. You fucked that up, got it wrong, try again. Got to the test at the wrong time, meant to get there at the right time, that was a mistake. You thought it was at 11 but it's 10.

Mistakenly fucking someone else... who did you mistake him for? Me? My dick isn't that big so it should be obvious even in the dark, I mean, after that long I'd like to think my dick is unmistakable. Not, like, razor toothed or something, just an average dick, but after so long, you get it. Enough about my dick. I could go on forever about it but that's because I have issues.

There is no mistake there. Yeah, it was a wrong choice, shitty reasoning, bad judgement, even erroneous belief. There's all sorts of mental mechanisms involved there too, but there was an intent to go investigate alien dick. Maybe the reasons for doing so were mistaken - mistakenly believing I would never find out, or care, or bail long before shit came out, or any number of other things. Those were mistakes, but the choice to go engage both virtual and magical alien dick was a choice based on those mistakes.

My wife doesn't call her affair a mistake. If she talks about it, she refers to that as "The horrible fucked up shit I did" or "My affair" and all the painful connotations that comes with for both of us.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Without anger I'm sure apathy would be next.

I'd say that is fairly astute. I was so tired of getting angry over lies, TT, taking forever to answer questions, not believing the answers, that I just.quit.asking. Apathy. Now, I exist. She did something a couple of months that in the past I would of gone ballistic over. Instead, I just hurt...waited a couple of months to see if she would admit to it, then asked her simply last week to tell me the truth. I knew enough that she couldn't lie to me about it, only thing I don't know is her motivation. What's going on in her mind. And I'm done playing that guessing game. After 20 months, I'm just tired of it. I don't get that angry or that anything any more...if it hurts, it's just another wound on top of 1000 others - it's like getting flogged by a whip across your bare back. Eventually, what's one more crack of the whip? Your cut and bleeding, your nerves are raw, and the pain doesn't register like it used to. But the person wielding the whip keeps cracking it, and after a while you don't even flinch when they draw back their arm.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
wert
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Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That night my wife saw her IC and holy shit, I don't know what they said but my fWW is a different person. She has started reading on Wayward regularly. She sends me notes. But her overall demeanor has done a 180. I am not sure it will continue, but it really looks like she is starting t "get it". For the first time in awhile I am hopeful

That is great man. Transfer of vigilance. Let her take that weight for a while, perhaps forever. She was the one who bought it to the party anyway. Go have some you time.

take care....



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Here's the biggest question I have though...
What is an appropriate anniversary gift? I'm wondering can I just do nothing or if that would be too much for her fragile psyche. Is a card with nothing but my name to much of an insult?

Just a card. Nothing special. Most of those sappy things sing praises about how perfect and honest they are. It's pathetic when your in this spot walking down the card aisle knowing it is t true.
Just a plain card sufficed for me to remind her of that day years ago when vows were exchanged.
You can't be dishonest and praise would be.
As for their fragile psyche. So what. Do the crime pay the time.
It's you who needs to heal. I can't worry about her. If she ended up walking so what. She didn't have what it took to fix it.
IMHO the WW needs to worry about our psyche and what she needs to do reconcile and make herself better. Anything else is the same old story heading down the same old path.
For now I'm done with the big budget gifts. I've strayed from lavishing rewards on her. Look where it got me in the first place. Habits need to change. I'm not fixing anything anymore. Maybe in the future. Certainly my not now.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 2:39 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG- LOL!

FWIW- I started playing FO NV again with DLCs. It is a pretty good game . . .as long as it doesn't crash.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's pathetic when your in this spot walking down the card aisle

Does Hallmark make cards for this shit?

Front: "To the greatest lover in the world"
Inside: "Or at least that's what everyone tells me."

or

Front: "I don't know what I would do without you in my life...."
Inside: "But I'm sure I'd find something productive to do with the time I normally spend checking your cell phone bill."

or

Front: "I didn't know what to get you on this special day..."
Inside: "But your gift of the clap was especially thoughtful."

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 5:18 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Front: "I don't know what I would do without you in my life...."
Inside: "But I'm sure I'd find something productive to do with the time I normally spend checking your cell phone bill."

Ha! You, sir, win the Internetz for the day. Hurrah.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Those are pretty excellent^^^. Another card idea:

Mine's coming up soon, and since it's so close to me finding out I'm just gonna let this one pass by without any mention of the "special" day.

Appreciation for small things: my wife is sober, at least for now, and back home. Everything else still sucks (we're not talking about anything yet...my insistence until I can get a NC promise), but it's a tiny, tiny positive step. She's still deep in her fantasy world, but I am seeing things that indicate that she may be aware of the vast swath of destruction behind her.

Cheers.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
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