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User Topic: T/J from Recon forum about monogamy
HFSSC
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Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think sometimes men and their penis's realize they're going to die one day and in one part of their brain cannot imagine not being able to feel the highest sexual thrills again. All this even while being very happily married. It's evolutionary psychology they say: This is painful for me to wrap my head around (and of course in my own thread i'm now entering a different topic, sorry!!!).. but i've read over and over again, that many men and many women prefer variety if possible and find it hard to stay 100% monogamous EVEN if happily married just because new sex, different sex, is just . . . different and a lot of fun.

This quote came from the thread in Recon about a happily M woman who would not want to know if her H had strayed. And this bothers me. A lot.

Are we really saying that this is how we've "evolved"? That healthy adult (Mostly) men are such slaves to their sexual desires they can be "happily married" but cheat because the desire for some strange is overwhelming? I'm sorry, but that's bullshit of the highest order, IMO, and I'm very sorry for anyone who's been sold that bill of goods.

I am a recovering addict. I have almost 5 years of sobriety, and I still miss getting high. I miss that anticipation, the moment of using, and the rush when it hits. I didn't get high yesterday, and as long as I keep doing what I've been doing, I won't get high today. And if I keep doing what I've been doing, the chances are pretty good that I won't ever feel that anticipation and rush again.

And I am okay with that. Because I understand that if I use again, it will be at a cost that is unacceptable to me.

Unless both spouses are in a mutually agreed upon open M, one of the purposes of M is a monogamous sexual relationship. It is meant to be a conscious decision to "forsake all others". Both parties are making that decision, and both should understand that choosing the strange may come at an unacceptable cost.

These are not animals we're talking about here. We are human beings who, ostensibly, have evolved past being ruled by instincts and urges.

JMO... what do y'all think?

[This message edited by HFSSC at 10:31 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


Me, 47
Him, 40 (JMSSC)
married 17 years. In R. We are making it. The past does not define who we are today.

Posts: 2660 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: South Carolina
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly? I think it's complete bullshit.

It doesn't matter how humans evolved. It doesn't matter that variety is exciting.

I mean, more than one has made the argument that women do best, evolutionarily, if inseminated by many men. You know, for perpetuating the species and all.

So what?

Let's just say that societal expectations did evolve faster than the human body. Even if this is true (and it's debatable; there is ample evolutionary evidence that we are wired for coupling), it's irrelevant. Why? Because we have chosen to be married.

We all know what marriage is. We all know the expectations associated with it. And we all willingly made the decision to focus NOT on our "biological imperatives," but rather on a relationship with another human that by definition, included forsaking all others.

Certainly, couples can agree to involve others, sexually. For some, "forsaking all others" is not part of the marital landscape, by agreement of both parties. And I have no problem with choices like this, when it's consensual and there is no injury inflicted.

But I would argue that most marital infidelity has nothing to do with penises and vaginas. It has everything to do with the mind and ego.

And we're plenty evolved enough to grow the fuck up and tell ourselves NO.

It's what we promise to do when we agree to take a husband or wife.

Is marriage hard? Absolutely. And successfully navigating the difficult waters is part of what makes a successful marriage so rewarding. There is such a sweet beauty in having the sense that, "We've done it! We've really succeeded, despite the odds!"

Mature individuals don't fall back on infantile arguments about anatomy when we are far, far more than our genitals. They don't fall back on the "One can be happy in marriage and seek sex elsewhere" argument, either. Because, unless there is a contract with one's spouse to seek extramarital sex, it is wrong.

And if you're among the

many men and many women (who) prefer variety if possible and find it hard to stay 100% monogamous EVEN if happily married just because new sex, different sex, is just . . . different and a lot of fun,
then---because of the expectations of the society in which you find yourself--you do not belong in marriage. Your sexual acting out is not evolutionary. It's not revolutionary. It's CHEATING. And you don't have the right to indulge your petty wants at the expense of someone else's safety and security and peace of mind. We live in a world where indulging your sexual desires can kill your partner; if that's not an evolutionary message, I don't know what could possibly convince one to remain monogamous.

As an aside, what's "100% monogamous?" Either you are, or you're not.

[This message edited by solus sto at 8:54 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8339 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
jb3199
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Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These are not animals we're talking about here. We are human beings who, ostensibly, have evolved past being ruled by instincts and urges.

But we are animals---and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense.

Religion aside, and from a purely scientific viewpoint, we are just an evolving species on this planet. One of many. One, that on the overall timeline of this planet, is barely past its infancy stage(modern man). Yes, we are at the top of the intelligence world, but we are still animals by definition.

That aside, I don't believe that it is the urge that defines us, but how we act upon those urges...or don't act. The bottom line is that cheaters do so because they want to...not because they have to.

The moral character can work both ways when it comes to cheating--I used to always say that anyone can cheat, but it is staying loyal and resisting temptation that is the more difficult path to take. That is one way to look at it. But the other moral angle is that many people can't cheat, because it is not in their moral character to do so...even if they were to try.

As for myself, I will never know which reason would keep me from straying. I never put myself into position to be tempted, because I didn't want to. I wanted to be monogamous. But on the other hand, I don't think that I could go out and cheat...even if I pushed myself. It is not who I am.

But for every one of us, there are others who do cheat. Whether it is at a higher or lower percentage over the evolution of the human race will probably always be an unknown. Immorality is part of our species; poor boundaries and decisions are throughout the world--whether it be infidelity, crime, or any other poor judgement.

All I can do is shake my head.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 1998 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
painpaingoaway
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Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I realize that the male sex drive is incredibly strong, but it obviously is 'controllable' otherwise every male on earth would be fucking every hole they encountered.

I really do believe that the whole evolutionary 'excuse' is just that, an excuse for shitty behavior.

I have a super strong sex drive, and once I get fired up, I do find it difficult to stifle the desire if there is no release, but dang, I sure as hell don't go out looking for strange in order to satisfy the urge!

I hope some guys will weigh in on this.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7021 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hoo-boy, HFSSC, I wanted to say a lot about that statement, but didn't want to t/j.

There have been many who claim to do "research" and proclaim that it is just unnatural for "men" to be monogamous. That it is basically wrong for anyone to expect men to be monogamous because that just isn't the way they were made. Of course, I don't believe that.

You are a recovering addict, HFSSC. I went through a period of my life were I was a slut, an ethical slut, but a slut. (At least, when I asked at SI if the men here thought once you got to a certain number of partners is a women a slut. Many said "yes" I was, many others said I wasn't. ) An ethical slut meaning I never had sex with married men, or men in relationships. I just didn't have an arbitrary number of dates with a guy before I had sex. If we had a nice time, I liked him, and we both wanted to have sex, we did.

When my FWH asked me to marry him, I really had to consider what I was giving up. Like you with drugs, I totally enjoyed the anticipation of having sex with someone new, the actual sex , and all the butterfly's and electricity of all the firsts (kiss, touch, etc, etc, ) I loved sex, I loved sex with a variety of men. I seriously considered this before I said "yes". I was really making a sacrifice. However, the pros of getting married to FWH far outweighed the cons so I said "yes".

I feel it was actually harder for me to commit to monogamy than FWH. (Although, I never was having sex with two men during the same time period. Whilst dating FWH, I didn't have sex with anyone else.) You could count on one hand how many partners FWH had. You would need both hands, feet and more to count mine.

I made the conscious decision to "forsake all others". Have I been tempted? Certainly, a number of times. However, I stood by my vows and didn't give into my carnal desires. I have remained faithful throughout our 34 year marriage, 37 year relationship. I wouldn't have gotten married if I didn't think I could do this. We aren't animals, we do have control over ourselves, our urges, our desires, our impulses. To blame it on "evolutionary psychology" is bullshit.

I don't believe anyone can be "happily married" and just have a little strange on the side, too, and still claim to be happily married. If you go get a little strange you are not "happily married".


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9408 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
windowsnotwalls
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Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When sex becomes compulsive and to the point you can't help yourself but to have sex with others even if it wrecks your life and puts the person you love's life at risk, then you have a problem. Plain and simple, and it's time to seek help for addiction.

Anything else that counters that thought is total bullshit, and I just don't pay attention to the "freedom of speech" spewings of total morons. You know the saying, "opinions are like assholes".

Not sure about the rest of you, but we didn't write into our vows "I promise to forsake all others...... until I feel too horny and want to go spread my seed elsewhere because you know, we need variety."

Some folks agree to open relationships, and that's totally fine. I have no problems with that. I have a problem when someone who can't control their "urges" lies to their partner and promises fidelity just to totally crash their world with their lies, betrayals, and weakness.

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 9:16 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are we really saying that this is how we've "evolved"? That healthy adult (Mostly) men are such slaves to their sexual desires they can be "happily married" but cheat because the desire for some strange is overwhelming? I'm sorry, but that's bullshit of the highest order, IMO, and I'm very sorry for anyone who's been sold that bill of goods.

That's kind of like saying stars evolved to destroy planets IMO.

Sexual selection for promiscuity traits don't make sense to me, but a lot of that field - evolutionary psychology - is based on correlation rather than evidence. Even so, the field also discusses things like infanticide. To put it simply, a genetic predisposition to something is not an immediate conclusion to its status among the social constructs of Wrong or Right. Killing babies because they aren't male is something we consider wrong in our society.

Everything else aside, evolution does not yield optimal results. Even if promiscuity is a genetic predisposition it could be considered a handicap similar to an inability to make vitamin C. If we're talking about sexual selection as a social construct, it is baffling to me how the idea of promiscuity would be the argued-for trait in tribal structures when promiscuity generates conflict while monogamy generates cooperation.

Evolution is not to blame for people cheating on their partners any more than physics is to blame for people getting drunk and crashing their vehicles into telephone poles.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7368 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
JustWow
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Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

we like to look at pieces of the evolutionary equation, not the whole thing. Human young take 10-15 years to reach something close to physical maturity. Early humans had nothing to gain by simply spreading as much seed as possible.

Expanding one's gene pool involved seeing to it that one's offpring lived, was fed, was raised to an age where they could reproduce and further spread said genes. Given that human offspring take a tremendous period of raising, male would pick females who they beilieved up to the task and females chose males who could hunt for them and the offspring, protect, provide.

This effort took a lot of time. Having loads of freetime to go sow seed to create more and more and more offspring at once doesn't necessarily make evolutionary sense if none of your offspring live to maturity cuz nobody is providing for them.

[This message edited by JustWow at 10:48 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3586 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
selkiescot
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Member # 23777
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it's baloney. I have been married 35 years and there is not ONE man I have seen that might tempt me away from my husband. I hav way to much love and respect to hurt him like that. That's what it comes down to love and respect. My not hurting him means more than 5 minutes of pleasure.


The truth shall set you free or reveal the name of the OW!
ME 57
WH 64
DDAYs TOO MANY
daughter 27
You give me gifts! I don't want your gifts I want the truth. That's the greatest gift.

Posts: 1377 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: CT
BeyondBreaking
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Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister- I was the same way throughout my youth, but I disagree in one major way: being faithful, IMO, includes being faithful on a physical level AND on an emotional level.

I don't think that fanticizing about someone else is being faithful. Even if you never act on that fantasy. I suppose dreaming (as in asleep) is different because you can't completely control your dreams and they are not completely conscious. But you CAN control your thoughts as well as your actions.

I used to be a slut as well- same as you. Not with married men or men in relationships- but I was completely okay with being someone's booty call or having a one night stand after a good date. There have been periods of time in my life in which I enter a serious relationship and am monogamous. None of those times have I ever even really thought about being with someone else when I am happy.

I believe that if someone is in a relationship and tempted to sleep with someone else, they are probably unhappy about something- either in the relationship or with themselves personally.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BeyondBreaking ~ when I say I was tempted, meaning it was a brief moment. Seeing/meeting an attractive man and knowing that if I wanted to, I could have him, but not going there. That is what I mean by temptation. I am still a woman, and I ain't dead yet.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:41 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9408 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think dismissing without really looking is a mistake. I'm not saying I agree with it at all. I am saying that, according to some research, 80% of marriages are hit with infidelity and 100% of those here have been.

Apparently, there is an issue. Widespread. Prevalent. Pervasive. The simplistic broken people, cowards, entitled, asshole is a pretty weak overview. Especially when some have never displayed any of those traits before in their lives. I'm certainly not arguing all those traits can't be used when describing but broadbrushing it has always, to me, mocked the very deep pain and destruction these choices cause.

They also fail to explain as those traits are sprinkled rather freely throughout the population and owned by non-cheaters as well.

I think some focus should be the early training of how boundaries are built. What tools you have in your workshop to deal with things when you no longer care about another's feelings. Something in place that enables you to protect your values and integrity (if "you" have any) that shores up the holes another can punch.

People live longer. That's more time together. People can be careless with those they love and can be very...unlikeable (not sure that's a word) at times. Sometimes lots of times.

We've even seen here the desire to smack back when someone has been hurt. That's also a biological imperative. Fight or flight is about as core as it gets and does have a very necessary purpose.

Not talking about excuses. Honestly, frustrates me to feel the need to even say that but sometimes discussions that look at cause that don't involve "because they're selfish pieces of shit" devolve into "excuses, blameshifting, justification"...Followed by posts of "why is cheating everywhere?"


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
BeyondBreaking
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Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not at all dismissing the science of human beings. Yes, we ARE animals, and yes, on that level, we have natural urges and ways that we have evolved.

But I don't think that is the problem for the most part.

Regardless of what people are feeling, people cheat because they want to, not because it was an uncontrollable instinct.

I think the thing that needs to be considered more than animal instincts is why a good chunk of people think that the choice to cheat is okay. Some is nature, but unfortunately I believe a huge and bigger part of that choice has to do with nurture (the way we were raised, home life, and the way that society as a whole has glorified and accepted affairs widespread).

And sister- it's not that I don't notice attractive people, but i guess what I mean by "temptation" is desire. When I am happy in a relationship, I have no desire to cheat and in that way I am not tempted. I know I COULD get some strange (heck, of the ow can get a man, I could probably get Channing Tatum).


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
refuz2bavictim
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Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went quote mining on this topic and found a few gems to enjoy. Thank you!

I would argue that most marital infidelity has nothing to do with penises and vaginas. It has everything to do with the mind and ego.

Egos are so problematic. I wish they were detachable instead of inflatable.

Fortunately nature provides some sort of road map/insight. There are species of animals that mate with one partner for life.

Evolution is not to blame for people cheating on their partners any more than physics is to blame for people getting drunk and crashing their vehicles into telephone poles.

and well I just enjoy this one.

The "monogamy isn't natural" argument has seemed a bit like a red herring to me.



BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Evolution is not to blame for people cheating on their partners any more than physics is to blame for people getting drunk and crashing their vehicles into telephone poles.

Actually, physics very much explains cars crashing into telephone poles. In fact, it's the very demonstration of it. The driver's condition is absolutely a factor but the laws are in play every where in that example.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Death doesn't bother me, especially where sex is concerned.

What bothers me is the prospect of living without being able to experience sex.
**********************

I think this evolutionary psychology stuff is basically conjecture; the science behind it is very unconvincing.

I do believe some of us are probably wired to be monogamous by nature and some of us are not. My sense is that monogamous wiring is more prevalent than polygamous/polyandrous wiring, because it takes so long to create an adult - but this is just my opinion and guess.

I think that long term growth together has enabled W & me to have much better sex now than we did when we first started. It's the repeated activity that taught us, for example, this touch is a turn-on at this point, but a turn-off at that point.

And physical sex doesn't compare to physical and emotional sex.

New partners, especially on the side, are probably about conquest and power.

My bet has always been that, role-playing aside, an eager partner makes for much better sex than a conquered subject does, and good sex is a lot more attractive to me than power is.... YMMV

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:48 PM, June 16th (Sunday)]


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9773 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Getting to Happy
♀ Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

refuz2bavictim you had the same idea that I had! I think this is a great subject! So I could not resist.

...one of the purposes of M is a monogamous sexual relationship. It is meant to be a conscious decision to "forsake all others". Both parties are making that decision, and both should understand that choosing the strange may come at an unacceptable cost.

And physical sex doesn't compare to physical and emotional sex...New partners, especially on the side, are probably about conquest and power.

Both of these quotes resonate with me. Especially the second with regards to power and conquest. The AP wanted to control her superior with her VJ and for a while she perceived that she was in control.

...what it comes down to love and respect. My not hurting him means more than 5 minutes of pleasure.

Seems so logical doesn't it?!

Having loads of freetime to go sow seed to create more and more and more offspring at once doesn't necessarily make evolutionary sense if none of your offspring live to maturity cuz nobody is providing for them.

HELLO!!

"I promise to forsake all others...... until I feel too horny and want to go spread my seed elsewhere because you know, we need variety."

Wait... was that in our vows?!?

...I don't believe that it is the urge that defines us, but how we act upon those urges...or don't act. The bottom line is that cheaters do so because they want to...not because they have to.

OUCH! This is a painful truth for me.

And we're plenty evolved enough to grow the fuck up and tell ourselves NO.

AMEN

...Your sexual acting out is not evolutionary. It's not revolutionary. It's CHEATING.... We live in a world where indulging your sexual desires can kill your partner; if that's not an evolutionary message, I don't know what could possibly convince one to remain monogamous.

And how many of our WS did not use a condom?!?

I realize that the male sex drive is incredibly strong, but it obviously is 'controllable' otherwise every male on earth would be fucking every hole they encountered

PPGA you always crack me up!

...I was a slut, an ethical slut...

I love it!

I wanted to chime in but you all really covered the topic well.

Thanks for all the insight SI'ers!


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1138 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
20WrongsVs1
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Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It bothers me too, because even partially blaming anything/anyone other than the cheater's bad choices is enabling. Evolutionary psychology, social mores, mass media, OPs, FOO, CSA, NPD, SA, et al., ad nauseum. WSs use these reasons to justify As, and BSs perhaps employ them palliatively.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1046 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It bothers me too, because even partially blaming anything/anyone other than the cheater's bad choices is enabling. Evolutionary psychology, social mores, mass media, OPs, FOO, CSA, NPD, SA, et al., ad nauseum. WSs use these reasons to justify As, and BSs perhaps employ them palliatively.

I thought we already determined who was to blame for the choice to cheat.

How does looking at an epidemic to suss through common themes and identify weak areas assigning blame?

I can't imagine the CDC stating its the virus to blame for the deaths so nothing to see here. They study how it's spread, why some are vulnerable while others don't appear to be, why some recover and some don't.

It is possible to entertain both those processes simultaneously, right?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is possible to entertain both those processes simultaneously, right?

"NO! No further research for you!"~research nazi


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Topic Posts: 37
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