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A question about an argument we had tonight...

We are almost 36 months after Dday. (Dday was in early July). fWW had 4 month EA and 1-weekend PA in 2010 with xBF from college who she hadn't seen or heard a peep from in 30 years. Dday occurred in our living room. More is in my profile.

R has been an up and down road. FWW has taken many actions to have good R (NC established early on, near full transparency (but I can't view her work communications... mail/work phone...everything else I have access to), she has been accountable for where she is (almost all the time), went to MC, she apologized a number of times for the A and my pain, & has tried to make amends).

BUT when it comes to talking about the A, she gets very defensive, partly due to shame and partly (I think) due to frustration (at this point) that I'm not over it yet.

Tonight, she was out at a work function that was supposed to have her back at 1030pm. She returned at 1130pm. In that 1 hour, I had a massive trigger meltdown.

When she got home, I asked her where she was and why she was late. Explanation was: out with co-workers for a drink after the work event. In pre-A days, this would be totally acceptable to me. But because of the A, I was triggering badly at the late arrival. FWW didn't call to tell me she would be late, because her cell phone battery was dead (...but she couldn't borrow a colleague's phone to call and say "I'm at (this place) with (these people) and I'll be home by (this time)???"

I told FWW I was triggering badly, and she lost it. Her response was: "Well you know that trip we were going to take this weekend to pick up our DD at camp?....you can go alone."

Then the floodgates opened: "I already told you I"m sorry...how many times do I have to tell you...you're never going to trust me again...nothing I do will ever make a difference...I'll always be a cheater in your eyes...this will never get better."

When I trigger, I want her to say this, delivered softly and sincerely: "I am so sorry I did something that caused you pain. I understand that showing up late, and not contacting you to tell you I would be late caused you to feel pain. I am SO SORRY my actions caused you that pain. Look at me, I will never have an affair and hurt you like that ever again. Please accept my apology for not calling you tonight." ...But instead of that I get the "pushback".

In many ways we've healed a lot, and I know there won't ever be 100% trust again, but I don't think we've gotten to the point where I can feel safe when things like this come up (especially when I get THAT reaction), and I'm not at the point where I can forgive. Sometimes, I tell her when I trigger badly like this. The triggers (large and small) happen often, but my sharing about it happens rarely.

With us 3 years out from D-day with multiple apologies already given, am I expecting too much in terms of WW showing caring and remorse when I trigger and tell her about it?

Is she right that she's "done enough already" and I should get over it?

Should I be better at managing the fear on my own, and not share it with fWW? I know at 0/12/24 months, the answer would be "NO!!! It's on the WS to work with you carefully and compassionately." But at 36 months? BS and WS comments welcome. Thanks!

Tonight, she was out at a work function that was supposed to have her back at 1030pm. She returned at 1130pm. In that 1 hour, I had a massive trigger meltdown.

Pre A I would have been pissed about a lack of a call. That would just be common courtesy.

I told FWW I was triggering badly, and she lost it. Her response was: "Well you know that trip we were going to take this weekend to pick up our DD at camp?....you can go alone."

Your response, "OK". Back to the 180. She doesn't get it.

You are being *punished* for a reaction to her mistake? Wow, that's stone cold brother. I'm only 15 months out, but I can definitely say that a response from my FWW like that at even 5 years out would bring a massive reaction. Her behaviors are mimicking those of a wayward. She is putting herself first with a lack of regard for you.

The triggers (large and small) happen often, but my sharing about it happens rarely.

Why not? A truly remorseful SO would want to help you deal with them, not wish you to cover them up. Don't let her silence you!

With us 3 years out from D-day with multiple apologies already given, am I expecting too much in terms of WW showing caring and remorse when I trigger and tell her about it?

In what healthy relationship do you hide emotions and problems from each other? You are absolutely NOT expecting too much. Rather, she is demanding too much. You will heal on your own timeline and no amount of pressure from her will speed that. In fact, if anything, her actions are delaying/thwarting any progress you are making.

Is she right that she's "done enough already" and I should get over it?

Absolutely she has done enough. However, with an attitude like hers, rather than getting over it, you should begin getting over her. IMHO

I'm sorry brother, I'm not seeing remorse here. I'm seeing regret.

180 and N/C at this point brother. She doesn't get it.

Strength

I'm not sure there can ever be a timeline saying that you should be over this by now.

First off, I'm a bit jaded but do we ever really get over this? We learn to handle it better. We grow and learn perspective, sure. Time applies a thicker and thicker callus but its a long road.

I've taken the shorter road a lot of times...the one where you simplify everything in your mind ridiculously, remove everything you considered special about it and rugsweep all the rest. It looks good for awhile. Maybe even a year or three but then...? Well, in my case, my spouse would just get up to antics again because we never dealt with anything...like...ever. He didnt see his actions as wrong.

And the pain from me...it was like a huge shit sandwich that's so big it was splitting the corners of my mouth plus I'm allergic to bread. I've had a crap day...sorry for the gross analogy but not sorry enough to change it.

Your wife isn't getting that you and she aren't in the same place. She isn't getting what she's done to you. She's completely broken both your legs and is asking you to run a marathon.

Even if she asked you to run the marathon 36 months out...it's likely you couldn't. You'd still hurt...maybe even have a permanent limp, need a cane, and/or have arthritis.

I totally agree with 5454real...180 her and start to shine.

Is she right that she's "done enough already" and I should get over it?

No.

I am 32mo out and I am not "over it" ~ I will never be over it...I have learned to accept it. My WH understands this and has never once let those words pass over his lips.

My WH started the R journey committed to spending the rest of his life making it up to me. His actions over the past 2.5+yrs support this.

I never made it easy for him:

-I never held back, when I was angry he knew it.

-When I was furious, he dealt with it.

-There was no brain to mouth editing. If I thought it, I said it...with little regard for his feelings.

-There were endless hours of discussions and repeated questioning.

Through it all he remained patient, understanding, accountable, remorseful, and persistent in his effort to right his wrong.

Having an affair is a very selfish act, my WH understands that. He is doing everything not to be the selfish person he was. He told me very early on that he wakes up every morning thinking, "What can I do to make Riding's life easier today?" and then sets out to accomplish that.

It would be helpful it your fWW could put your needs first...always. If she did, she would have made that phone call, she would not get defensive when talking about her A, when you trigger she would speak those words you so want to hear.

When I trigger, I want her to say this, delivered softly and sincerely:,,,

Have you told her this ^^^?

with multiple apologies already given

I would remind her that it is not what one says, it is what one does that truly matters.

R is a process. You have made it 3 years, and you have done quite a bit of healing but there should not be a time limit.

A remorseful WS should want to work with you carefully and compassionately for as long as it takes...even if it takes forever.