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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Trusting your gut or even self after dday...
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a hard concept for me to explain. After being lied to by an expert (WH) for years, the kind of guy who knows how to say all the right things, who knows just how to twist his words to manipulate me, himself and anyone else to get what he wants - how do I trust myself or him? I know I have to go by his actions but I find myself feeling "uneasy" for lack of a better word by things he says lately. Lately he has been making comments that just don't sit well with me. I have no idea if it's me (I am in a BAD, BAD place) or him. What do you do when this happens? It's not comments I *KNOW* are blatantly "bad" like "we should be over the A by now" and it's not even something I can pin down. It is A related stuff(not asking about details, just general talk about A) but it's not outright blameshifting or gaslighting but the answers just make my belly churn with uneasiness. I need to know how to stop feeling crazy and paranoid. Do I sort of files these away and wait for actions to prove what he is doing? Any tricks to sort out the craziness that is the A fallout? Any suggestions?


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think this is pretty normal after dday. it sucks when you can't trust your partner, but it's crazy making when you feel like you can't trust your own judgement or gut.

it's impossible to say whether this is red flag material or not. filing it, close to the top, would be good. observe, document and maybe when you're more comfortable with your own gut, take another look at it.

can you ask him "what did you mean by that?" or "what you just said/did made me uncomfortable and I don't know why.." do you think that you'd get comfort from him or manipulation?



ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14838 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it's impossible to say whether this is red flag material or not.

I'm not thinking it is red flag as in he is doing anything now A related, I don't think he is. Just kinda feels like another layer of him "not getting it" and having no clue that he isn't. Feels like he knows the "right" things to say and they are shallow. I don't know.

Sometimes I wonder if it's an issue of I want specific asshole actions addressed or acknowledged and he goes broad with his words and apologies. Maybe this is me being - hell - I don't even know. It just feels like he should be looking at and acknowledging the specific things that are bothering me and he doesn't, it's just a generic sorry I had an affair (but he is more eloquent and I do believe him when he says that). Being an ACOA - I have NO concept of "normal" - do other BS want/need specific actions acknowledged?

Like todays incident was I asked him what password he used for his email and google voice during his A - it was our normal password, the same one we use on everything - computers, phones, itunes etc. I have no idea why this sends my panties in a wad but it does. A sideways wad that has been rolled in glass, oatmeal and sand after being dipped in tar. I told him how this felt like he didn't feel the "need" to hide his A from me. He could lie and cheat in plain sight I trusted him so much. He knew how much I trusted him, that made his A easy (I *NEVER* checked his phone or computer), he took that trust and made it EASY for himself to cheat - like he couldn't even use a new password. I mean he did lie and hide it but then he didn't in some ways. His phone was never locked. It feels almost like he was rubbing it in. His responses were (not all at once, but during this conversation)- "I'm sorry I ever talked to her and I'm sorry I have created such a trigger for you with this password. I'm sorry - I never meant to rub it in - I never should have turned to anyone else in the first place. So sorry I made you have to go through this. I would do anything to change it." I seriously feel like I should know if this should bug me. I don't.

Honestly, I am just so back to the point of wondering if he can't please me and that means this was just a dealbreaker for me. Or are his words being twisted in my head for a reason? GOD I HATE FEELING INSANE!!!!


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

do other BS want/need specific actions acknowledged?

doesn't matter what anyone else needs, if you need this, then you need it. it's not wrong to need it in any way.

from what you said he responded with, it sounds like he's trying. yes, some blanket apologies were there too, but it sounds like he addressed the password thing too.

can you talk with him and explain that you view things in pieces, while you feel he's reacting to the whole? make sense? it can be difficult as sometimes the bs is working with tweezers while the ws has arms wide open trying to catch it all at once.

learning together that your trust, not just in him, but in yourself has been destroyed and it's going to take a lot of time and effort to get both back helps. good, healthy, constructive communication will go a long way too.

is he patient with these things? does it seem to you he's open to exploring things as they come up (and sometimes repetitively) and making the effort to address each thing as a piece and not just a part of the whole?


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14838 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

is he patient with these things? does it seem to you he's open to exploring things as they come up (and sometimes repetitively) and making the effort to address each thing as a piece and not just a part of the whole?

Yes to all questions but the last ones. It feels like he can't even SEE the parts. Maybe he can't yet. I don't know. Maybe when he sees this thread it will shed some light to him? Or maybe if I ponder this more it will for me?


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No idea if this will help but I am writing out the responses that would have made me feel better and will show WH later. Maybe between the two of us we can figure out the missing ingredient?


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
Losttransport
♀ Member
Member # 39409
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand what you mean about not checking his phone. My husband had his secret email account set up ON his iPhone! Texted and emailed her right in front of me at times (I found out when I checked phone records) but I trusted him so much, and he knew it, I never looked. So I get what you're saying. I'm so sorry you're feeling so upset.


Me: BS-42
Hubby: FWS-42
OW: former friend of mine
EA from ? to 3-15-12
3 DD, 1 DS
Time heals all wounds-I do not agree.

Posts: 93 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Texas
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told him how this felt like he didn't feel the "need" to hide his A from me. He could lie and cheat in plain sight I trusted him so much. He knew how much I trusted him, that made his A easy (I *NEVER* checked his phone or computer), he took that trust and made it EASY for himself to cheat - like he couldn't even use a new password. I mean he did lie and hide it but then he didn't in some ways

Sigh....yup, I get it.

I was working tons of hours and I encouraged the friendship between ow and him...she was my friend, he was my H. It was a win win

Didnt have to hide anything...hell all of us used to go out.

I think you will find, or I did, that recovering from what I felt was my own stupidity was almost as difficult as surviving the A.

Trust my gut...ya, my gut turned into a crazy making machine. I went from oblivious to fucking hyper-vigilant. I checked everything, doubted all...his words his actions, the tiniest bit of attention from him. I didn't have a gut anymore because everything was off.

He would tell me he loved me or I looked pretty and my stomach would flip. Who is this man...where did he come from....and who the hell was I.....

It was awful.

The only thing that helped me was consistent, unwaivering actions and about 5 years, really. After year 5 maybe a few months after it seemed like a weight lifted and suddenly I was ok, I was really ok.

I did a lot of work on me and he on himself and finally trudging through the snow became a sunny walk in the park.....we just had to walk through the storm.

Not sure if this is what it is for you....but it really was it for me....walking through it.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 3:59 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3793 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's normal for a BS not to trust him-/herself after D-Day. After all, we've all just learned we had completely misread a critical part of our world.

I hope you're impressed with yourself. You've recognized a problem. You're asking for help. In planning to share what you'd like to hear, you're changing your behavior. All in all, you're doing everything I can think of to ensure a different outcome. I wish I did that more often.

In addition to using, 'What did you mean by that?' (and waiting for him to answer), something that's been useful for us over the years has been to ask one of the following as a genuine question (no irony or sarcasm),

'What's he positive outcome of saying that?' and
'What response do you expect me to make to that?'

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:17 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9991 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for the responses. I did end up writing out what WOULD have made me feel better and I showed WH. He seemed to understand and his one apology since that chat was better, felt more real. I also took the test online for apology language and showed him my top two.

Anyways, wanted to say thanks - I no longer feel AS crazy.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
musiclovingmom
♀ Member
Member # 38207
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have struggled with my H giving generic apologies too. Something that very recently helped us - I wrote him a letter that stated many of the reasons I was angry at him. He wrote back an apology letter (it included apologies for things I wrote in the letter and things I had mentioned before). I shared the apology he wrote in a thread a week or so ago. Maybe he just needs a list of things you want him to apologize for. Sometimes things that are crystal clear to us are not to them until we spell it out very clearly.

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Jan 2013
Ladyogilvy
♀ Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can relate. WH is such a great liar, it's only after a year of MC I think our MC is seeing it for what it is. WH is so sincere in MC about loving me and wanting to make thing work, I look crazy for not trusting him. But then MC gets taken by surprise by another lie surfacing.

When they have such a talent for lying, how can we believe anything they say? Especially when what they are saying sounds less sincere than the many lies we've been told before. How can they know how to be completely manipulative but not know how to be truly comforting? Is it just more manipulation or are they really that emotionally backward?

Sorry, I have more question than answers.


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1512 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
ptsdrecon
♂ Member
Member # 36031
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Part of what hurts is that you go back and find yourself looking at the "tells" that your instincts felt and you chose to ignore. This is where you condemn yourself. You are left punishing yourself for not seeing "signs". Hindsight is 20/20. Forgive yourself for this first. Loving someone involves trust. While this has been damaged and perhaps broken, you are in control of what you trust your partner with. Faith first, then trust. Blind faith was what you may have gone with before, and therefore it hurts. A lot. Knowing that innocence is forever lost truly is painful.

Now, as you reconcile the past with the present, recognize the times when you ignored those little "signs" and forgive yourself for ignoring your own GOOD instincts. You made a CHOICE to ignore your instincts in favor of the one you loved and chose to trust them more than yourself. You now know you CAN trust yourself. This should help you fell better and more confident about yourself, but you have to recognize it first.

Strength to you!


Me BH (48)
Her FWW (39 + 1/2)
Married 12+
2 Angels 8 10
D-Day Feb 1 2012
6 month EA PA

Posts: 159 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Topic Posts: 13

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