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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Help, I’m seeing his IC this afternoon - Sanity Check!
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick recap, after just over a year of model R, I found his porn stash in a unused closet which was a dealbreaker. I left him for three days and gave him the option of that and the Playboys going out of the house, or he and them would leave when I returned and we would be formally separated via me going to my already picked lawyer. He, as much as I can verify, shredded and dumped all materials including high school letters that had his “secret AFF” name on them an old nickname from (irony) church camp.

One of my demands upon returning was that I needed to see his IC with him to make sure that he was actually telling his IC the truth about what was going on. I gave him one visit (already done) to come completely clean with the IC and the next one (tonight) I am going with him. Brainstorm with me, dear friends.

This is what I came up with, in order of importance, knowing that we only have an hour.

1. IC, have you been told to tell me anything that I ask you?
a. If not, then ask FWH to state that to IC. If refused, walk out and see lawyer
2. Has FWH told you about any other affairs, infidelity, or inappropriate behavior?
3. What has FWH told you about choosing his “Stuff” over me (stuff being what he calls his possessions he has a real hangup about ANY of his stuff being touched, moved, etc)
4. FWH keeps telling me about “fighting his demons.” What are they?
5. Do YOU think that I’m being unreasonable in not trusting FWH (if he says yes, I will ask why. 98% chance that no matter his answer, I will walk out but in case there is a legitimate point he wants to make, I’m willing to hear it)
6. What do you think of FWH having someone IRL to talk to about all of this other than you? (I would like to see him confide in someone)
7. What do you need to tell me that I haven’t asked you about?

Also, FWH has asked me to write down a list of my “expectations” for him. What actions/behaviors that I expect him to do. I am of two minds about this. Mind #1 says, what part about not screwing other people, being completely honest and open with me, not being alone with any woman, and calling me when you are late and/or are on your way home is difficult? Is this a test so you can claim that you’re doing everything that you were told to do? Mind #2 says maybe both of us listing what our expectations are of each other is a good thing and will lead to more sharing about those expectations that you bring into a marriage that don’t necessarily jibe with the other person’s expectations. Like one person expecting that the man will be the primary wage earner while the woman stays at home, while the other person expects that both people will work and split all tasks at home with each other.

Help!


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4935 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If refused, walk out and see lawyer


98% chance that no matter his answer, I will walk out

IC is not the problem. Your intention to "walk out" doesn't sound like you're approaching this with an open heart & mind.


FWH has asked me to write down a list of my “expectations” for him. What actions/behaviors that I expect him to do. ... Mind #2 says maybe both of us listing what our expectations are of each other is a good thing and will lead to more sharing about those expectations that you bring into a marriage that don’t necessarily jibe with the other person’s expectations.

Exactly. R is a two-way street. If you can't define success, how will you know when you've reached it?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ladies_first, I think that you miss-read the quotes that you pulled up.

1. IC, have you been told to tell me anything that I ask you?
a. If not, then ask FWH to state that to IC. If refused, walk out and see lawyer

Yeah, if he lied to me by telling me that he told his IC to be utterly truthful to me, and the IC confirms that he lied to me again, you bet I'm going to walk out of the meeting and see a lawyer. Why in the heck would I stay in a meeting that is being convened to establish if he's told the truth when he's told his IC to not talk to me?

5. Do YOU think that I’m being unreasonable in not trusting FWH (if he says yes, I will ask why. 98% chance that no matter his answer, I will walk out but in case there is a legitimate point he wants to make, I’m willing to hear it)

If he's going to an IC that thinks that I should just "get over it," and that I'm being unreasonable, then hell yes, I'm going to walk. There is no point in putting myself through agony with an IC that thinks that I am being unreasonable in wanting FWH to actually prove that he's trustworthy. The 2% variance is that IC might, just might, have something to say that I need to think about that legitimate point that he wants to make.

And thanks for the opinion about Mind 1 and Mind 2 on the list of expectations. I worry that I am being either too trusting or too skeptical.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4935 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Wonderingwhy11
♀ Member
Member # 34782
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are only going to MC so I am not sure how IC works when the other spouse attends to ask questions. I know my SIL did this and was frustrated. I think that is because is IC is for him not for the marriage.

I would tell his IC what your concerns are and what you are need seeing as improvement for you trust him and forgive him. An hour is not much time to discuss all the things you want to.
What I would want to know from his IC is:
1. What is he working on in IC?
2. What is the progress?

I don’t think your WH should be asking you to write down your expectations of him. I think WS should tell us what they realized about themselves and what they are doing to make us feel we can trust them. My WH will ask me what is he doing wrong or what do I need to do. The problem I have is I feel this is shifting the responsibility to identify his problems and tell him what he needs to do to me. How is this a two way discussion that leads to a mutual agreement that helps move forward and build trust? If WS is not an active participant in this discussion then I feel WS is agreeing to placate the BS and lies to hide they are not doing what they agreed to. Finding the porn after you thought it was mutually agreed for him not look at porn causes you to question if he is lying about anything else. Then the whole cycle of distrust starts over. When you find out they are not doing what you thought you agreed to then the distrust and anger starts up again. This is something to discuss in MC but if WS has not dealt with why to agree to something and then lie to cover up they are not following what they agree to then this is something they need to work on in IC as well. WS needs to understand why they do this. I hope this make sense.


Me BW - 46
Him WH - 53
Together 23 yrs, Married 18
DDay August 2011
2 kids - 13 and 15

Gotta love the life that we livin'


Posts: 376 | Registered: Feb 2012
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you get your questions answered satisfactorily by IC?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Ladyogilvy
♀ Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After WH's A, he started trying to get sober and seeing an IC who specialized in alcoholism. After a year of his IC making it clear he didn't expect our marriage to make it and he didn't care as long as WH stayed sober, I'd had it. WH got drunk one night and the next day I told him he wasn't welcome home until he got a new recovery plan in place that did not include the IC he had at the time. An IC who is not a friend to the marriage is not acceptable.

[This message edited by Ladyogilvy at 9:40 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1536 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 10:46 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, it didn't start well. I got there 20 minutes early only to find the entire building pretty much locked up. The office that I was supposed to meet them in was locked no one there. Every other door on that floor was locked and had no lights on. Rest of the building the same. I sat in my truck in the parking lot (had forgotten my phone at home) sobbing because I didn't know if things were cancelled due to a problem at the building (they are remodeling), or worse case scenario, a cruel joke had been played on me. FWH drove up about 6 minutes before the meeting, assured me that it wasn't a joke, and we found that due to the AC being flaky, he was having meetings elsewhere in the building. So it didn't start well.

However, since I was now a beet-red mess with tear and snot tracks on my face, and had nothing else to loose, we had one hell of a deeply involved and highly personal talk. FWHs IC confirmed that he was getting the basic info flow, that FWH and he were working on his issues, and that FWH was deeply in love with me but absolutely baffled by his stupid choices. I was able to give IC some very specific wordings that FWH had used to me, and I explained to FWH in great detail exactly what he had lost when he made the decision to lie to me and continue to lie to me my trust, my budding hopes for the future, my vision of us renewing our vows, my ability to trust my judgment everything. And IC validated my statement and feelings.

So, the IC and I now know each other. FWH will continue to work with him, with a real, live face being put to "the spouse." I will continue to work with our former MC, now my IC. And we will see what we will see. All in all I am very satisfied with the visit, but still at a loss as to exactly how one regains trust that was lost, regained, and then thrown away again.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4935 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Skan)))) Sounds like it was a rough start, but I'm glad that things went better from there. Take it easy on yourself - this stuff can really take it out of you.


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25744 | Registered: Aug 2011
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that 'nothing to lose so let it all hang out' attitude is a great one for discussions like this. I'm just very sorry you had to go through the 20 minutes of hell before the meeting.

The trust rebuild takes a very long time, but trust this: as long as your H keeps showing he's trustworthy, your trust level is growing. The growth is often imperceptible, but it's there.

(For me, trust is a big obstacle to declaring I'm R'ed - but if I compare how much I trust her now to how I felt a year and a half ago (well, as much as I remember), it's a lot more.)

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:09 AM, June 29th (Saturday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10375 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skan,

I am so sorry to see you going through so much with your H. It is really hard when they lie yet again. Over such stupid shit. It becomes mind boggling at times. And then it starts to produce real anxiety in you as to what can be trusted and what can't. I know, BTDT.

Here is the thing, You cannot drive this R. Only he can right now. When Hlessons screwed up again, I was done and I sat back and detached. And he knew that I was completely detached from the process of our M. I was watching all actions and determining if I was going to stay.

You writing down a list of expectations put this M back in the parent/child dynamic and that is not healthy. He has to start driving this train of R at some point, and I think you are going to have to detach and start working on your own healing if that is going to happen. He has to stop being worried about pleasing you and become more concerned with fixing his shit.

Big hugs, I know this is hard.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5071 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Wonderingwhy11
♀ Member
Member # 34782
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Sisoon and tried girl comments. Rebuilding trust takes time. Trust is rebuilt when you find they are trustworthy. It takes time.

I am still working on this myself and DDay was almost 2 years ago.


Me BW - 46
Him WH - 53
Together 23 yrs, Married 18
DDay August 2011
2 kids - 13 and 15

Gotta love the life that we livin'


Posts: 376 | Registered: Feb 2012
HFSSC
♀ Member
Member # 33338
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skan, you joined just when I was living my nightmare.

JM and I were S for 5 months, then went thru a 3 month false R and S again. When we S for the second time, my pain was unimaginable and VERY evident. He seemed to be finally broken and willing to do the work. He quit drinking, was in IC. When I let him come home and we renewed our vows, I KNEW he could not hurt me like that again. Little things happened, but he could always explain them away. I suspected broken NC but couldn't prove it, so I pushed the suspicions away. I told him that the only deal breaker I had was broken NC. And he lied to me over and over.

When I discovered the broken NC on May 29th last year I was eviscerated. I simply could not fathom how he could have see my pain and inflicted more on me. We had a session with our MC that was very similar to the one you described. But our MC opened up a twelve pack of whoop-ass on JM. I almost felt sorry for him. But on that day, my H finally became willing to do all of the hard work and repair our M. And he has done it. I realized a few days ago that I trust him now more than I ever have in our M. Because even before I knew he was a cheater, he was a liar. He lied about everything. It became a joke in my mind when he would start talking because I knew he was full of crap. Today, he is a man of integrity, who tells the truth in love, even when it's ugly.

I don't know exactly how we got here but I am glad I stayed.


Me, 47
Him, 40 (JMSSC)
married 17 years. In R. We are making it. The past does not define who we are today.

Posts: 2781 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: South Carolina
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks HFSSC and everyone else. For right now, I'm staying. I've let him know that I don't have the slightest clue about how to begin trusting again, so it's all up to him to come up with some way to show me actions. About everything. And I'm doing a lot of thinking about exactly what I want and what I don't want. In a way, I feel free, because I have seen a new life without him in it, and I know that I will be good, I will be better than OK, and I can fly. All by myself. So he's got to show me a new life-with-two that's better than the new life-with-one that I can see. I really hope we make it. I still have faith that we can, but damned if I know how, exactly.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4935 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Topic Posts: 13

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