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User Topic: Drunk Talk
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As we are moving country in a few days, we have been going out a lot for goodbye dinners etc. It's been really nice to spend time with my H and it feel's like we are starting a new life, which in essence we are.

Things have been good. He's more responsive. I'm not as reactive. Both mindful of what we say and how we behave. This is very different for us. For so long, we have had certain roles within the marriage. I complain, he withdraws. I often wonder if it's a compatibility things. I'm such a thinker and an over-analyser. He thinks I'm too deep and I think he's not deep enough. Although, I read something recently that stated that actually compatibility is more about having shared values and similar goals, which we have, so maybe it's a personality clash? Who knows. All I can say is lately we've been getting along and we're "happy".

The warm fuzzy feeling is fleeting. I can feel the love from him but feel undeserving and so don't allow myself to absorb it. There's still a slight disconnect from my side where I'm irritable and not as affectionate as I could be. I'm trying to be authentic. I think mostly it's to do with guilt which is being rugswept as we don't talk about my A.

Which brings me nicely to Friday night. A fun night out with friends, dancing etc. My H and I rarely drink or go to nightclubs. We used to enjoy this but haven't done it for quite a while. Anyway, some friends hosted a leaving party for us and we decided to make it a good night. My H got uncharacteristically drunk and I guess had the confidence/urge/need, whatever you want to call it, to mention the A. His exact words were "You've cheated on me once, make sure there's never a 2nd time otherwise I'm out the door. The problem is I love you too much and can't leave you"

This is after a significant amount of alcohol (I was fine) and in a very very loud room. I responded with "I'm sorry" and we got disturbed by our friends and it wasn't talked about after that. We came home that night and he crashed. He was hungover the next day so was quiet. We've been busy since then and haven't had a chance to talk.

He seems lighter after that night. I don't know what to make of it. I'm happy he said something as he hasn't said a word about the affair for months. I know he's hurting. I just wish he's talk about it. Anyway, I don't think I should bring it up. He will obviously talk about it when the time/environment/intoxication level ( ) is right for him.

Any thoughts welcome.

Will the warm ,fuzzy attachment feeling come back? It's 5.5 months since NC. I'm the most indifferent I've been towards xAP but I find myself not really living in the here and now.

I've been described as a "restless soul" on so many occasions and lately have found myself being existential. Questions such as "what is my purpose in life" and "why am I here" etc. I've always been a deep thinker but I'm feeling I'm not really truly living in the present.

I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone who can relate.


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
JustDesserts
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Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've always been a deep thinker but I'm feeling I'm not really truly living in the present.

I can relate, big time, to this part of your post. It is one of the things I've needed to work on as it relates to my recovery from alcoholism. And now my affair recovery and reconciliation. And I wish I could say getting to the point of "living in the present" is something that I've found and kept. Far from it.

For me it's more like I am able to find momentarily, here and there, that elusive state of being present and in the moment. It does feel peaceful when I do. Then at some point my deep thinker's mind (and my deep feeler's emotional wiring) tug me into anxiousness about the future (which I can't control, but want to)...and/or...anger, hurt, resentments, fantasizing, and delusions regarding the past. Anywhere BUT the present. It is frustrating because I can't seem to keep being in the moment pinned down when I do get there. And I haven't been able to identify a reliable path that I can replicate that gets me there when I'm stuck in the future or past.

I'm fairly sure that letting go and acceptance lie somewhere at the center of finding and creating that elusive "in the moment" state. But I intellectualize those, too, and so perpetuate the cycle of being there, then not being there.

As a deep thinker, personally, I can remember many more times when my deep thinking has gotten me into trouble, or caused negative things in my life. I can remember precious few times when my deep thinking has been a catalyst for positive things in my life. And my deep thinking feeds wonderfully into my darker, and more obsessive and compulsive, thinking patterns.

Perhaps this helps you a bit. And, good luck with that deep thinker's brain.

With regard to the rest of your post, I'm sure some of the vastly more experienced members here can give you some good feedback.

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 6:33 AM, June 30th (Sunday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
mike7
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Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i have a tendency to not be in the "here and now." I believe it has caused me to be unhappy. I've missed too much of the enjoyment of things I was doing because i wasn't "present."

Because of this realization, I've consciously tried to live in the "now." studied Buddhism, etc.

I really think that living in the past or future too much or being "absent" because of constant introspection can detract from your happiness.

If you find this to be true in your case, I'd recommend doing something about it. I did and I'm happier.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a deep thinker, personally, I can remember many more times when my deep thinking has gotten me into trouble, or caused negative things in my life. I can remember precious few times when my deep thinking has been a catalyst for positive things in my life. And my deep thinking feeds wonderfully into my darker, and more obsessive and compulsive, thinking patterns.

Ditto. My deep thinking has also created a space for over intellectualising and rationalising. My H always tells me "you think too much". I always retaliate with "you don't think enough!". There's obviously some defensiveness on my part in order for me to snap back like that.

I realise I tend to lose people sometimes when I talk during dinner parties or whatever. I take it beyond small talk banter and digress into something deeper and I can see people get bored and start to look through me!! It just shows my need to widen my social circle which I can't wait to do!

i have a tendency to not be in the "here and now." I believe it has caused me to be unhappy. I've missed too much of the enjoyment of things I was doing because i wasn't "present."
Because of this realization, I've consciously tried to live in the "now." studied Buddhism, etc.

I really think that living in the past or future too much or being "absent" because of constant introspection can detract from your happiness.

If you find this to be true in your case, I'd recommend doing something about it. I did and I'm happier.

Any suggestions on where to start?

It's funny, but when it comes to special moments with my kids I tend to be far more present and in the moment than when I'm with my H.


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
20WrongsVs1
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Member # 39000
Happy  Posted: 11:20 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying, I'm sensing a lot of optimism and hope in this post, which is a real departure from what you were writing a couple months back.

I can feel the love from him but feel undeserving and so don't allow myself to absorb it. There's still a slight disconnect from my side where I'm irritable and not as affectionate as I could be. I'm trying to be authentic. I think mostly it's to do with guilt which is being rugswept as we don't talk about my A.

FWIW, I'm going through a real guilt and self-flagellation phase right now, and (in contrast to you) BH and I have talked about my As exhaustively.

For so long, we have had certain roles within the marriage. I complain, he withdraws. I often wonder if it's a compatibility thing.

Or, you are complementary. You're perhaps attracted to each other because you "complete" one another. That's how BH and I are; we are opposites in many ways, but we each bring skills and talents to the M that the other lacks.

Have you read The Five Love Languages yet? I call it "the care and feeding of your spouse," but it could be called "ILYBINILWY: how it happens." It explains how spouses can each think they're communicating adequately, but in fact they're speaking different languages.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1230 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Trying33
♀ Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi 20,
I've read bits of it and did the test to identify the love languages.

Right now, I'm frustrated because I can't FEEL the love. I just feel numb. My senses tell me there's love there. I can see, hear and touch it but I don't seem to be connected.

Does that make sense?

I do feel guilty, but it's more a disappointment in myself for degrading me, my H and my vows. I feel angry I stooped so low and gave so much power to xAP when he's not a touch compared to H.

That's not remorse though right?


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
♀ Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

According to my H, one must just accept that after 10 years of marriage there isn't going to be fireworks and mills and boon style romance.

I'm not quite sure tbh but I've lost perspective on what's reasonable vs not. Am I just in a constant fantasy world chasing something that is unrealistic?

He tells me my expectations are too high. Again, isn't this a very subjective thing? Who gets to decide what's too high vs what's acceptable?

Is it negotiated? Is it a compromise?


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think he probably feels better after saying that because it is something he has been holding back for a long time. It is just a harsh truth that is really difficult to say in his position. Saying it at the wrong time or in the wrong circumstances risks everything he is working for, but it is something he has to be sure you understand.

The warm fuzzy feeling is fleeting. I can feel the love from him but feel undeserving and so don't allow myself to absorb it.
The warm fuzzy feeling is always fleeting. It is how we still remain functional when we are in love. The people who felt that all the time went extinct because they were not capable of feeding their children consistently.

He tells me my expectations are too high. Again, isn't this a very subjective thing? Who gets to decide what's too high vs what's acceptable?

Is it negotiated? Is it a compromise?

Reality is the final judge on that. If reality disagrees with your expectations, you will be disappointed every time, and quite unhappy.

The human brain is actually wired to time limit all those romantic feelings anyway, long neurochemical explanation for this that I won't bother with, but it is the reason we have a word like limerance, and why we have to develop mature love. From a practical point of view, being expected to be always on with regards to romantic stuff would be fatally exhausting. Even worse than if every night in bed you were expected to have wild monkey sex with elaborate costumes. It may happen from time to time when everything has calmed down and you are on vacation, but just doesn't work when the credit card bills come in for more than is in the chequing account, or the basement has flooded.

Most of those warm fuzzy feelings happen when we first meet, all of the conversations are interesting as we are learning more about the person , their values, checking off the little boxes in our mental scorecard, the excitement that they have passed another one of our dealbreaker tests so things can continue. After 10 years of marriage you should be well passed that stage of the relationship. Most of your conversations are going to be about practical matters related to survival, logistics, and dealing with other people. In the first episode of Sherlock, Holmes complains to Watson about the smoking bans, and states "breathing is boring". It in fact is quite boring, but absolutely essential to your long term survival.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sweetie, I'm not qualified to define remorse, any more than I'm qualified to define love :) What do you think? Do you think you're feeling remorse, or are you still stuck in regret?

According to my H, one must just accept that after 10 years of marriage there isn't going to be fireworks and mills and boon style romance.

This is really what Chapman explains in 5LL, which is one reason I'm enjoying it so much. He says the "in love" phase lasts on average two years. After that you have to work on developing "true love." It's why so many WS say to their BS, ILYBINILWY. It's so common, it's a damn acronym! We fall "in love" with the AP--which is probably not genuinely love, but infatuation, spark, dopamine--because that is what typically happens in new relationships! And it typically lasts two years, Chapman says.

Am I just in a constant fantasy world chasing something that is unrealistic?

I was. Am. Working on not needing that escapist fantasy anymore, working on being satisfied and fulfilled in my life, my M. My C identified in the first 10 minutes of my first session, why I escaped to A fantasy-land. It was incredibly helpful.

Good luck with the move. I'm sorry you're still feeling conflicted, but honestly I have seen a big change in you and I hope it's not corny to say I'm proud of you! Keep up the good work.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1230 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
grains
♂ Member
Member # 32590
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BS got me a wonderful book - "Fear - Essential Wisdom For Getting Through the Storm" by Thich Nhat Hanh. It is very helpful. It came at the right moment for me. I am studying meditation with a monk that is from the same tradition as the author of the book. It helps one understand the ideas in Buddhism. Please try meditation. The meditation this tradition uses is focused on breathing. It is called Vipassana ("insight"). There is no thinking just observing. You try to have a quiet space with yourself daily or as often as you can just for 10 minutes. Be well.


WH 60
BS 50
No Children
Together 17 years
Married 7/21/2001
D-day 03/01/2011

Posts: 313 | Registered: Jun 2011
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, June 30th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@20Wrongs:

We fall "in love" with the AP--which is probably not genuinely love, but infatuation, spark, dopamine--because that is what typically happens in new relationships!

Working on not needing that escapist fantasy anymore, working on being satisfied and fulfilled in my life.

I've been manually scouring and reading the WS threads for practical advice here. I'm ashamed to admit how far down the rabbit hole of delusion I traveled. One of these days I'll learn to do SOMETHING in moderation in my life...


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really believe that in life, it's human nature to compare and contrast. This provides us with some perspective and helps us to understand feelings and behaviours. It also helps us to figure out what is "normal" and what is a deviation from normal. We can then choose what we'd like to do about it.

In the absence of opportunities to be able to compare and contrast, it's difficult to set expectations. Questions such as is it ok and reasonable to expect H to do certain things. This obviously depends on cultural upbringing as well as what ones frame of reference has been whilst growing up.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear.

I guess what I'm saying is I have no idea what other marriages are like behind closed doors as such. I talk to friends and family and what my H does seems pretty typical but then I just think my girl friends are different to me and not as emotionally demanding.

When I talk to women who are content and happy with their monotonous lives (not judging but they would say this themselves) I often wonder why. I usually conclude that their ability to accept real life and be tolerant with issues is better than me. I would rationalise that maybe I just want more from life and that's ok and would carry on being demanding and difficult.

I'm starting to realise, that maybe these very women are just in the here and now. Don't take things for granted and aren't always searching for something. They seem firmly planted in reality; bills, nappies, cleaning etc. I do all these things and I do them well but always feel what now? This is boring, now what can I do? This is not enough. It's not fulfilling blah blah blah. As my H would say when he's angry with me "you're never f'ing happy"


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
heartbroken0903
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Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Will the warm ,fuzzy attachment feeling come back?

Possibly not. I don't feel them anymore. I have accepted that I won't feel them again, because to do so would require either a.) leaving XH and finding someone new to date, or b.) cheating again---neither of which I'm interested in doing.

According to my H, one must just accept that after 10 years of marriage there isn't going to be fireworks and mills and boon style romance.

I've never been married 10 years, but I can tell you that I agree with this having only been married for TWO AND A HALF. From my understanding, it goes away in most relationships...it just does.

I think aesir's post was excellent.

I'm starting to realise, that maybe these very women are just in the here and now. Don't take things for granted and aren't always searching for something.

I had this realization too, after D-day. It was for me very profound and a way to begin changing some stuff. Before D-day, I was like you. I could have written your posts, years ago.

This is boring, now what can I do? This is not enough. It's not fulfilling blah blah blah.

Yep, used to be me.

As my H would say when he's angry with me "you're never f'ing happy"

Yep, used to be me also.

I had a real hard time (and still do, in some ways; I'm working on it!---with comparisons, and envy, and seeing what others have and either assuming THAT is the status quo and what *I* have is lacking, or wanting it regardless of whether or not it was reasonable or attainable.

Example: some couples friends of XH and I have a beautiful house. They bought it last year and it's modest but very nice (anything seems nicer than my 1-bedroom apartment ) with a huge backyard, on a quiet street, with woods and a field in the background. They have all the suburban family stuff---kiddie pool for their little girl, gas grill and firepit on the patio, two-car garage, the whole nine yards. It's easy for a personality like mine to feel envious, because that's what I want. But under the surface, I know that they have trouble paying their bills, including their mortgage, and that they are struggling to keep it all afloat. So my rational mind has learned to weigh the two: would I rather have all that "stuff," as an example, but not be able to pay for it? Or would I rather have less, for now, and be content with it until I'm able to have more?

And what if there IS no "more"? No, there isn't a lot of passion or butterfly-in-the-stomach feelings or can't-live-without-him/her feelings in XH's and my relationship. We had that at the beginning. I had never, ever been so happy as during the early stages of our dating 7 years ago. It went away then, and I panicked. I thought, "Something's wrong. It should always be there!" But *I* was the one who was wrong. It goes away, and that's okay. We have now what I consider to be something better, because it's something that can endure.

I rambled there and I hope I didn't get too far off track, but I just wanted to jump in and say that I understand what you're saying, but it really does require an adjustment in thinking or you'll find yourself continuing to be disappointed, as aesir said:

If reality disagrees with your expectations, you will be disappointed every time, and quite unhappy.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Remarried.


Posts: 2226 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Alex CR
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Member # 27968
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Married just over 30 years and together 40 next year, for me the fireworks ended years ago. In fact besides admitting he was just selfish, my H said it was his anticipation and the excitement of a new person and new sex that fueled the A. I can only imagine what that would be like with someone new, but I have never forgotten what it was like with my H forty years ago.

Just recently a niece told me she can't think at work because of the new guy in her life. She said she feels like she's not in control because she's thinking of him constantly.

I'm glad we don't live our lives in that constant state. Raising children, working, there are so many things for us to tend to that those feelings would interfere with us living real lives.

There is also our inner life that can't be ignored. It's hard to find the time to tend to that when busy with all our responsibilities and for me, adults put their families needs first so it was a constant struggle.

Over time, the fireworks left, we got buried in the day to day monotony of living and now we are in our 60's and in spite of H's betrayal, I find much satisfaction when I look back at my life. I am proud of the family I raised and the job I did helping others.

Listening to our kids today recollect their favorite memories and it is the day to day stuff, the cookies after school, pizza every Friday, Sunday dinners with family and friends around the table. All the things I thought were boring and mundane, and they are things the kids remember with so much happiness.

My only regret is I was so busy doing it all and feeling like 'is this all there is' that I didn't really take pleasure in those moments while I was living them. I was busy making them happen, but not 'feeling' them. I wish I could go back and really participate in those times rather than just orchestrate them.

I now have much more time to reflect, read, write and time to think. (Of course getting rid of television has helped with the free time category tremendously.) I try to treasure each moment taking the time to stop and look. I try to focus on my H and what we have today, together. I want to suck every moment I have left dry because I've come to the conclusion 'this is all there is' and it is entirely up to me how and whether I live it.

I don't know if my rambling makes much sense. I also wanted to mention I found wine helped me a few times say things to my H I didn't have the courage to say when sober and I did feel like my load was lighter afterwards. It may have been false courage, but for that moment, it was all I had and it worked for me.


BS Me 61
WS Him 62
Married 33
Together 40
DD 11/16/09
The future looks good....

Posts: 1713 | Registered: Mar 2010
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reality is the final judge on that. If reality disagrees with your expectations, you will be disappointed every time, and quite unhappy.

So, what my H does to fulfil my expectations is what is deemed reality? I guess if he chooses to or cannot reach them, that is also reality. My reality.

And what if there IS no "more"? No, there isn't a lot of passion or butterfly-in-the-stomach feelings or can't-live-without-him/her feelings in XH's and my relationship. We had that at the beginning. I had never, ever been so happy as during the early stages of our dating 7 years ago. It went away then, and I panicked. I thought, "Something's wrong. It should always be there!" But *I* was the one who was wrong. It goes away, and that's okay. We have now what I consider to be something better, because it's something that can endure.

Heartbroken, I'm scared that I'll forever be trying to find that "buzz" in one way or another. I am able to look at what H and I have as a family and as a couple but I'm always searching for something. Trying to attain. Looking for my next challenge.

Study, Husband, Marriage, Kids, Home, living abroad etc. I've ticked an awful lot of boxes in a short amount of time. I feel like I'm always looking for more boxes to tick. I have been thinking of doing a doctorate or having another baby.

When will I stop trying to tick boxes? What is wrong with me? Why can't I just sit still and enjoy what I have? Why do I always want more?

Alex CR, thanks for sharing your experience. It really hit home. I should take your regrets on board and sort out my shit now before I look back and wonder where all the years went.

The A had nothing to do with my M. I'm starting to realise this more and more.


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
Topic Posts: 15

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