If i start at the very begining of our relationship, it maybe easier to understand. We met online 13 years ago, been married for 7 years and as far as i was aware, we were happy.
He was born with a condition called Bladder Extrophy, it has left him unable to have penatrative sex with anyone. He is able to ejaculate so we have our own way of touching each other etc. I am the only woman he has trusted with his body and he had never had a girlfriend for longer than 4 weeks due to the fact he would have had to tell them about his condition.
We got married and had 4 cycles of IVF treatment as we longed for a child - i became pregnant but sadly at 8 weeks i lost our baby. We then went donw the route of adoption, and were in the process of being matched with a child when i found out about his online affair.
I call it an affair because thats what everyone on here calls it. My husband used to go onto a chat room, and have cybersex with different women. He had a secret yahoo account and used to email women from that, when i found out, he deleated everything off these accounts bit i found sent messages that he had forgotten to delete. There was nothing weird about the messages, the usual hiya, great chatting to u last night, do u have a yahoo account i can add u to, here is mine etc .. there was one woman in particular who he added to his yahoo chat (there was only this one woman on his friends list) and she used to go on her webcam and touch herself while he watched! I KNOW that he didnt go on his webcam, 1: it wasnt working and 2: he would NEVER show his body to someone else. I beleive that he didnt show himself to her. He did send her a picture of himself (a normal one) and he showed me the one he used. Again i beleive him. But this is beside the point. The fact of the matter is, he did this with this woman, who was also married. He would log on to talk to her, and the chat would get flirty, and she would eventually strip naked and touch herself! When i found out he came up with the usual excuses, i dont know what its like to be with another woman - im stressed at work, bla bla ... but the one that really got to me was ... that he wanted to know what it was like to be able to have penatrative sex with someone!!! he said that with the cybersex, he could be who he wanted to be, he could do what he wanted to do. he felt he couldnt do those things with me because in reality he physically couldnt. I DO understand that need ... BUT i still feel betrayed, i feel hurt, im still devastated 6 mths on.
He was remorsful, he was sorry, he was devastated at the way i reacted. He begged me to forgive him, told me that i was the only one who understood him (almost made me feel that he is only with me cos i accepted him for who he is) he said he didnt think he was having an affair, because there was no physical touch etc. We went to marriage guidence and she told him 'YOU HAD AN AFFAIR' it shocked him, and me too if im honest. he also used a different name in the chat room, and lied about his age. Said he was single and 20 yrs younger etc ... created a whole new life! like he was a different person. During this time (about 6mths) i had noticed his usage on the internet, but it never entered my head that he could that to me.
I dont even know why i am here today. I still find it difficult to come to terms with. Im jealous that he went to a chat room to get what i have always wanted to give him.
Since then, we have talked and talked about everything, about our fantasies, about what we want, what we like (i guess i used to say just touch and no penatration was ok, when really it wasnt, i had needs too but i shut down for fear of hurting his feelings)
Anyway, the thing is, i cant stop looking for this woman online and on facebook etc. I know her real name and her user name on the chat room they used, but there are so many same names on facebook, that i really wouldnt know where to start. i know she lived across the water from us, so no way of meeting up, and that ties up with the times he was online etc. But i still cant stop myself, 6 mths on i type her name into google and look for her! When will it end, does this ever get better ...
I'm so sorry about what has happened. You are definitely not alone here. It DOES get better, but it takes a long time.
Is your H open to any type of counseling? Obviously his medical condition has had a big effect on his outlook regarding sex, and I'm really sorry that after all your love and compassion he couldn't keep it together to be faithful to you.
I truly hope that he shows real remorse and works to help heal your heart and show you that he can be faithful moving forward. You deserve so much more.
For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot
You do realize that if you did manage to touch base with this woman she would most likely lie, deny, or be hurtful to you. You would not gain any insight, or real peace from it. It is normal to search for her, and to want to contact her. My H's AP was from another city, and I never met her, and I never talked to her, and I really really really wanted to for quite some time. I found it helpful to write the horrible nasty things I thought of her in letters to her, and then burn them or shred them, it was cathartic, it allowed me to get my anger out, but didn't create any new drama. It took me long enough to get he to leave my H alone, the last thing I needed was to open that door.
It takes time to heal. IT sounds like you two are working together to get through it, and working towards making your relationship more open, and honest. Communication is key. He needs to know that he can share all his fantasies with you. You should be able to do the same as well.
Keep coming, reading and posting.
Thank you for your replies. We did go to counselling together but to be honest, I think the woman who counselled us was a bit loopy herself! He is very sorry for what he did. Im not sticking up for him, but he has shown me time and time again, he lets me talk about it when I want to, lets me rant about it and answers all my questions Ö sometimes too honestly, I asked the usual questions, what does she look like, is she pretty, was she thinner than me etc etc Ö I didnít really like what I heard, and he knew he was hurting me by telling me, but I needed to know. Iíve cried lots of times since, and he has cried with me. He hates what he has done to our marriage, and I believe him. But im still hurting, why is this so Ö
I did confront this woman Ö but never got a response from her. I told her who I was, that my husband wasnít who she thought he was, and that I knew what had been going on between them (altho admittedly at the time I didnít) I never got a chance to tell her I knew that she stripped naked for him, because as soon as I sent her the first message, she deleted her email account so I couldnít contact her again! In all fairness (an I hate saying this) she didnít know he was married, he lied about that too. So not only did he lie to me, he lied to her too.
I asked him if he felt guilty for lying to her, and he replied Ďyesí so must mean he had some sort of feelings for her, otherwise he wouldnít have given a shit would he!!!He told me it was all about sex and that they didnít talk much about normal things. She never spoke about her husband or her family life. I saw one conversation on his yahoo chat, and it was normal things, she was going to pics, he was going out with boys that evening, he was having salmon an garlic mushrooms for dinner Ö not even kisses when they logged off, just said Ö maybe catch u later! He said thatís what they relationship was like .. if they saw each other in the chat room, they would chat, if not they didnít go looking for each other! I think he was more addicted to the chat room if im honest. He would talk to other women in there about sex and stuff. Hurts like hell that he couldnít talk to me about it tho and im jealous about that. Is that normal, to be jealous? I dunno?? I donít know whats normal anymore.
Our sex life now is so much better than before! We have enhanced it by using different toys etc Ö I wont go into detail but its helped us both a lot. I do love him, so so much. But I wont stay if im second best! Ive been married before to a man who preferred using his fists on me, and I was a punchbag for 10 years and along my now husband who was wonderful. I just cant believe he did this to me. Im so sad that our marriage isnít what I thought it was Ö im so disappointed that everything I thought we had is gone. We are rebuilding and he knows when I get moments like im having today, he lets me talk Ö even tho heís prob heard it a thousand times now, I need to keep talking. Is 6 mths a long time, should I be over this now, I donít know whats right or wrong Ö
You need to know that the woman he chose he chose not because of how she looks, but rather the positive ego strokes he got when he was with her. It's all about how they the wayward feels that gets them into trouble. It's not because you aren't pretty or any of that. Do NOT compare yourself. She is a very broken person. You are a loving wife who has offered the greatest gift possible to her spouse.
You are right, what you thought you had is gone, but that does not mean it can't be better than it was before. You have the right to mourn what you have lost, but you also need to see the positive things that are going on now. His willingness to be open and share with you, his real remorse, his willingness to hear you grieve, and help you through.
My R was what I felt pretty fast tracked, and I can say I didn't feel that I was really truly R'd, and healed for a full 2 years. It's ok, It takes time. Keep focusing on the good stuff, work on the stuff that isn't great, and rebuild it from there.
I know it is hard not to track the OW down, it will only make you miserable. While she didn't know he was married, she also stooped to a low level by striping for him and touching herself for him. She doesn't care if he is married or not...it is her own kink. You will only make yourself crazy.
The increase in sex is called hysterical bonding (HB). It is very normal. Unfortunately, it also tends to end later as the reality of the A comes crashing down. Right now, it is still a shock for you both.
I would also recommend finding another counselor for marriage counseling (MC) and you and your husband may need an individual counselor (IC). I would imagine he has issues he needs to resolve, as you do too. This is a very long road if you chose to reconcile (R). For a couple committed and a wayward spouse (WS) that is remorseful it is possible to R. If the WS is not remorseful it is incredibly difficult.
Demand transparency in all of his electronic devices. You would be surprised how creative a WS can be. Talk openly and honestly.
Hugs to you. Take care of yourself through this all.
She reckoned that my husband needed to find some things to do by himself and suggested a walking holiday for him, and for me, to concentrate on my business that I had recently started up! She said that as I was busy with starting up my business, I neglected my husband and that he felt he needed to turn to chat rooms, which then led to the other!!!! Oh and something else she also said too Ö we had spoken about my miscarriage, and my husband always felt that maybe I miscarried because the baby had the same condition as him, so kind of blamed himself. She said that in most cases of miscarriage, itís the womanís fault because itís her body rejecting the child! Great, I felt wonderful after that!!! Why we kept going back god only knows!!!! Even my husband said she was crap and that it wasnít my fault.
My husband had always been very supportive of my business (which I run from home) and still is. My husband has never once said any of this was my fault, has never said, well u was busy and I felt neglected etc. He is totally ashamed of his actions, and knows it was his entire fault that our marriage isnít going to be the same as it was. I do grieve for my marriage. I grieve for the man I thought I married. I look back at pictures and memories we had taken during this A, and I feel sick, because we both look so happy, but I know we werenít (if that makes sense) ive told him how I feel about looking back over the past 10 mths and he denies that he was unhappy with me Ö but he must have been to do what he did.
There are days when I donít think about the A, but on the days I do, I end up looking for her on the internet, driving myself crazy. On days when I am completely glued to the internet looking for her, I donít get nothing done at home, and sit on my lap top most of the day! Ive been into the chat room and given out her name and her user name so people would know what she is doing, most of them came back and thanked me for the heads up, they would look out for her when they want a bit of fun Ö Iíve probably given her lots of new fans! Thatís the type of chat room it was! When I come across this site. I couldnít believe the amount of people on here, the amount of people this happens to, and the amount of people who actually do this sort of thing (cyber affairs etc)
The day I found out that he was chatting in these rooms my world fell apart. I had teased him about the length of time he would spend online, but never in my wildest dreams did I think he was doing what he was doing. I used to go to bed before him and leave him downstairs, surfing!! I actually loved going to bed by myself, I could read in peace, fall asleep in peace Ö I guess looking back I donít suppose I did help my marriage and we got into a rut (Iím not taking any of the blame, I know this is his fault, he chose to go into a chat room, he chose to have cybersex with this woman time and time again) But I thought my marriage was happy. He showed no signs of having an A. He was his usual loving self to me, to our family etc. But the fact that as soon as he got a chance, he logged on!! Duh! How thick was I !!!
Anyway, the day I found out, I happened to get out from the bath and came down the stairs and into the living room where his laptop was open, and on the screen was the chat room, and also a yahoo chat box! I knew straight away what was going on and he didnít deny it. There was no point, I could see he was talking to a woman, so I took the lap top from him, and spoke to her. I told her who I was and what was going on with her and my husband. She never replied, went off line and when I tried to contact her again, her email address was non-existent. She had deleted it. Iíve tried (many times) emailing the address via different accounts in case she had just blocked my husbandís yahoo account, but she has deleted the whole thing. I KNOW she didnít know he was married, but I believe it wouldnít have mattered to her. I cant believe how stupid she was to strip naked in front of a computer screen to (what she thought) was a 24 yr old single guy (she was 46 and married!!). She had no proof who he was, no webcam of him, all he showed her once was a picture of himself (face) and that was it!! I cant believe this woman was so bloody stupid!!! He could have been anyone! Hell he was anyone. He was a 24 yr old single guy with no ties Ö. Only he wasnít in real life. In real life he was my 44 yr old loving husband Ė the sad b*****d who thought he could get away with watching her touch herself for fun!!
As for his electronic devices Ö ermmm - he has no lap top anymore. When I found out what he had done, I threw it at him! Not just once, but until it was in pieces on the floor! I also slapped his face at least 6 times. I threw a cup of tea at him, I punched and kicked him!! Im not proud of it before anyone tells me I have issues, but it made me feel a whole lot better at the time! Now when I look back, I cant believe the jealous rage I had and never believed I could such a thing. I also took our framed pictures off the wall and smashed them into pieces. I told the MC this and she said, I donít blame you, get it out of your system! Letís all be honest, she was shite at her job lol!
I have a lap top, but it is password protected, and he never goes on it, if he needs anything, he will ask me to look for him. His phone is a work phone; he doesnít have a private one. I see his bank statements, his pay slips etc. Thatís not because Iím looking for things, but because we have a joint account and his payslips are kept in his drawer beside the bed. Talking about beds, I even asked him where she used to strip for him, in her bedroom, in the living room etc Ö sometimes the conversation started in the living room, patio/decking and she would lift her lap top and walk into her bedroom, place the lap top down and strip!!! Then turn the laptop out of his view to get dressed again! Then make an excuse that she always had things to do, and log off!!
And again, this is how stupid this has affected me, the night I found out, I had read a conversation they were having, and my husband had told her he was having garlic mushrooms for dinner (which was the truth lol) with salmon. Now every time I cook mushrooms, I canít Ė just CANT bring myself to put garlic in them, because it reminds me of HER!!!!! How stupid and sad is that??? I love garlic mushrooms, but so did she, so I now hate them, they make my stomach turn. I feel so childish even typing that!!!!
Anyhow, I donít know how many of you picked up on my first post about looking into adoption, but 3 mths after the A, we adopted a little boy and his little sister. We had waited for this for three years and I thought long and hard about it before deciding to go ahead with the placement. My husband is a different man! He adores the children, and he adores me. He doesnít spoil me with flowers, or gifts, I think I would suspect if he did Ö he adores me by the way he is with me. I know he loves me, and I know he will be eternally sorry and remorseful for what he has done. Yes I still grieve for a marriage I have lost, but I still have the man I love who is doing everything in his power to help me gain his trust again, to show me how much I mean to him. Our sex life has completely taken off since the A. we have been more open with each other about his condition, Im not saying that everything is perfect and itís a garden of roses, I wouldnít be here if it was Ö I have good days, and I have bad days, Iím just hoping that the good days outweigh the bad ones!
My marriage will work, I know that Ö I just need to vent now and again, and there is no one else I can turn to (I did tell my best friend, but all she tells me now is he is a good man, he made a mistake yeah yeah Ö she doenst get it, sheís not walked in my shoes Ė most people here have and im grateful to have found this site, only wish I had looked 6 mths ago!)
Thanks for reading x
Sorry that you have to be here but glad you found us. I have read all your words and there's one section in your last post that I felt I wanted to address:
I do grieve for my marriage. I grieve for the man I thought I married. I look back at pictures and memories we had taken during this A, and I feel sick, because we both look so happy, but I know we werenít (if that makes sense) ive told him how I feel about looking back over the past 10 mths and he denies that he was unhappy with me Ö but he must have been to do what he did.
This is the way it is and I've totally BTDT (been there done that). I used to have a screen saver on my computer which showed random photos from over several years and I would have to stop them from coming up because I was categorising them into 'before the A' and 'after the A' and I used to get so sad looking particularly at the 'before' ones because that was the life I loved and that is the life that I have grieved/am still grieving for. Anyhow, I changed my screensaver to nothing - maybe I'll change it back in time, maybe not I think I still have some grieving to do which has to be tempered with looking forward to the new life we are creating. And, for you, with your lovely new little family, this is your chance to look forward to something new especially as your WH is showing remorse.
The second part of that quote:
he denies that he was unhappy with me Ö but he must have been to do what he did.
No - absolutely not. I also believed this and beat myself up constantly thinking if I had fulfilled him completely this wouldn't have happened but it is NOT the case for me or for you - please, don't think this, don't go down this path. Through IC (individual counselling) that my WH is having he is unearthing some startling facts about how broken he is and how his childhood coping mechanisms have been carried into his adult life in an unhealthy way. Your WH will also have issues that have affected the choice he made in being unfaithful. You could never have had any bearing on that aspect.
Sending you positive thoughts x
Expect the triggers. I am sorry you are having them. The simplest of thing can make you trigger that makes no sense until you start thinking about it and digging down. The mushrooms are a perfect example...it might be the salmon next time. It might be a location you had a picture taken in that had great memories, now you realize he was having an A during that time, and the memory is no longer as good. Things along that way might result in triggers. It is normal and expected. When you have the triggers, talk with your husband. Explain it too him and talk it through. It takes a while to resolve them, but they can be better with time.
I would encourage you to find another counselor. One that is better than your first! Unfortunately, they are not always easy to find. We had 2 MC counselors and neither were great. Our IC counselors ended up being the best for both of us.
In some ways, an A makes a marriage start over from the beginning. As we discover we do not "know" are partner like we thought we did. It is expected and understandable. Once again, it takes time. Time to get to know them and time to rebuild trust. That rebuilding of trust is dependent upon the WS and the efforts put forth to help the betrayed spouse (BS) heal.
Be patient with yourself. I realized that was one of my biggest mistakes. I was not patient with my own healing time line. Once I realized I could not rush it, I started feeling better about myself. The hurt will not go away like a flip of a light switch. Depending on how bad things got, love can not be just turned back on. For us, my love for him as a husband was destroyed. It is still redeveloping and he knows it.
Take care of yourself and him. Personally, I think if your WS is remorseful, the healing is a two way street. I have worked hard to also help my WS heal. He is remorseful and 90% of the time I believe he would never do this again...but like any human having gone through this, I have significant doubts at other times.
Hugs to you.
NONE of what he did is your fault. Know this.
From what you have described you both seem to be on a good road to recovery, and healing. He needs to have a good understanding of why he chose to do what he did, and fix that. You alluded that he seems to be getting it.
It is completely normal to have triggers, and if you can't make garlic mushrooms ever again, so be it. There is a particular city that even still when I hear it's name I cringe. I know it's silly, but it's a trigger even still.
Congrats on the Adoptions. Make sure that with all the newness of having kids, and all that comes with it, that you two are still taking time to focus on each other and your relationship.
((((and strength to you both))))