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My BH has asked me if I wanted to destroy my life and our marriage. He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior. NEVER throughout my A did I think "Yippee, when this comes out I'll lose my family, friends, and possibly him." Why would I have stayed in something that clearly could have only ended with mass chaos? Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

He keeps asking me the whys, however none of my reasons are good enough - inability to detach from people (male or female), neediness for love and attention especially from men, creating a fantasy family with my AP and family while projecting on to them what I thought I wanted in a marriage/family, trying to fill an empty hole within me that I've never been able to fill. Are these all surface reasons? I believe that whatever final reason(s) I come up with will never be acceptable, because it's never acceptable to cheat. For WS, what was your final reason? For BS, what reason did you finally accept from your WS?

I keep getting "i don't know," "I wasn't thinking," "I'm sorry."

She doesn't know, because it doesn't make sense to her now that she see's what she's done.

I'm guessing that she got complacent, feeling old, enjoyed the attention, probably felt like what I didn't know couldn't hurt me. Implicit in that is that she must not have thought she would get caught. I think after she did it once and got away with it, she figured she could do it more. after all, how could it cause more damage? She didn't think she would get caught and I'm guessing she was planning on stopping once she had enough fun. She definitely affaired down.

If I divorced her now she would never settle for someone like him. He was just there.

Now she's pretty much destroyed. Not by me, but by herself. Not a lot of fun at my house right now.

hope that helps.

He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior.

Gently as can be - he is right. Not thinking it out doesn't mean it's not true. I get the not understanding how deep the pain goes while you are in an A but you can't actually have believed it would help? You may have justified to yourself somehow that it would but deep down, assuming your moral code is affairs are bad - on some level - you KNEW. *THAT* is what he is talking about. You may not have understood the level of the destruction but you surely didn't think an A was a *GOOD* solution to your issues did you?

Saw a quote on a different forum something along the lines of "An affair to fix an unhappy marriage is like taking exlax when you are hungry." Sorry can't remember who's Mom said it.

He keeps asking me the whys, however none of my reasons are good enough

This makes me think you don't fully understand the concept of the why's or his needs for the why's. I hear frustration and defensiveness your post. If I am making you angry right now, maybe sit out a bit and see WHY? Keep digging. It's rough stuff but the rewards are huge.

He keeps asking me the whys, however none of my reasons are good enough

If he keeps asking why, and doesn't want to accept your answers and explanations (his right, obviously), that is possibly his way to keep from having to reinvest in your relationship...and hence put his heart on the line once again. I might be way off the mark there.

Perhaps instead of trying to find a reason he'll latch onto as valid enough, you could say "I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us".

Not sure if that would help any, but it's what came to mind. Good luck. I hope it will get better.

If he keeps asking why, and doesn't want to accept your answers and explanations (his right, obviously), that is possibly his way to keep from having to reinvest in your relationship...and hence put his heart on the line once again. I might be way off the mark there.

With all due respect for your opinion, from a BS perspective I think you are off the mark here. I sincerely wanted to know why, I guess in an attempt to make sense of the senseless destruction of my marriage by someone I trusted completely. By someone who I remained faithful to from the day I laid eyes on her.

The problem is that there really is no answer that will satisfy a BS in this situation, but a WS who wants to salvage the marriage has to field these questions as best he or she can and show their spouse that they're willing to work like hell to repair things.

"I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us".

Bingo. You nailed that one, JD.

I believe that whatever final reason(s) I come up with will never be acceptable, because it's never acceptable to cheat.

I think that is true.

As a BS, I believe his reasons for cheating/lying boils down to selfishness.

I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us

The trouble for me, as BS, is that if my WS said that to me (and he did say something similar), I don't know when he is the new person who is now going to heal himself etc. Trust is gone and it's hard to believe he will commit to the marriage now. And to me, it is a moot point after infidelity.

For WS, what was your final reason?

I think I got to a lot of whys, and my BW really only accepts one of them.

The one my BW accepts: Simply put, I did it cause I wanted to.

The reasons I have uncovered for me to work on and change myself for the better:

FOO, not knowing how to accept or express true love, not being able to fill that empty hole in my soul, so trying to fill it with outside validation, viewing myself through the eyes of other women, and the list goes on.

All of those reasons set the stage for my decisions leading up to my choice to have the A. All of them made me the selfish person who wanted to have an A instead of just being honest.

I am not sure about your BS, but I know my BW heard my whys as excuses - she understood them, knows that it is great that I understand them, but still felt like I was trying to avoid responsibility. My BW just wanted me to own my decisions and I can understand her logic.

ETA: not sure if this helps you or not.

[This message edited by badchoice at 11:58 PM, July 1st (Monday)]

BS here

I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us

^^^ This is something I am having a lot of trouble with at the moment.

I think it would be SO convenient and easy for all of us, BS and WS, if we could simply say that the WH was "another person" when he had the A. I have used that tool myself in the 10+ mths since D-Day... The thing is we have to be honest, my WH is the self-same person who had the A. Yup, it was HIM that did it, THAT man, not some other person, he is still THAT man who did THOSE things to THAT woman... I hate it, but it's true.

There comes a point where I have to accept that fact and reconcile in my head that the man he "was then" and the man he "is now" are in fact one and the same person - the BEHAVIOUR might be different (well I certainly hope so!) he is hopefully working on the issues and flaws that led to the A-behaviour, but he is the same man.

Bottom line is: I think that using the "the man I WAS and the man I AM" line smacks horribly of trying to shirk responsibility and blame-shift a little.

Don't mean to cause offence, but that's my take on it. YMMV.

As far as the Why....

My BH has asked me if I wanted to destroy my life and our marriage. He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior

^^^ I have asked my WH the same thing. I've wrestled with it. The answer is that at that time he couldn't possibly have valued me the way he should have... it's obvious... if he had valued me above all else, he couldn't have had the A, because lets be honest he knew that when I found out it would hurt me deeply. He valued his selfish desires above me. Fact. I needed to hear him say it.

Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

I don't think that was the reason why any WS started an A. Personally, I think the issue here is accepting responsibility for the consequences of your messed-up decisions more than working out why you did it.

I needed (still need!) to hear my WH take responsibility, instead of (what I perceived to be) him making excuses. I needed him to look me in the eye and say "I didn't value you the way I should have, I didn't protect our marriage the way I should have. I put my selfish needs and desires ahead of you, our children and our marriage. I never gave a thought to what I was throwing away, I never even took the time to consider that what I was doing had the potential to destroy our marriage and our lives. I was selfish, I behaved in a disgusting manner and I have no excuses."

Perhaps that is what your BS is actually after?

This is helpful to read through. Part of my trying to come to grips with and understand my behavior and how it affected my BS is hearing from other BS's. In many cases our "takes" differ. I am listening closely to those differences, discussing them with my BS, and it has been very helpful.

Anyone, WS or BS, who wants to disagree with any of my words or opinions, point out blind spots, suggest alternative ways for me to see, or call me on my bullshit...is helping me in my attempts to learn, change, and grow. I'm thankful for each and every opportunity, and I'm going to stumble and fall ALOT along the way. It just feels good to be trying.

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 6:28 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

See below.

NEVER throughout my A did I think "Yippee, when this comes out I'll lose my family, friends, and possibly him."

I did think that, before and during my A, nearly word-for-word (minus the "Yippee", though).

Why would I have stayed in something that clearly could have only ended with mass chaos?

I did, for 5 1/2 months, because I thought the OM was worth it. I knew that I would lose everything---but I thought that being with the OM would "make up for it."

For WS, what was your final reason?

Because I was selfish and I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it because I thought that the end would justify the means, and I thought I could pull it off without getting caught HAVING the A. I thought that I could leave my XH for the OM without anyone actually finding out that it was FOR the OM. Not my brightest thinking.

a little threadjack, and I'm sorry.

Heartbroken903, i'm curious. if that was your thinking, since your H divorced you almost immediately, why didn't you do what you wanted? Why didn't you go to the OM? You had your chance.

Again, sorry for the threadjack, but this may help pizzalover too.

Great question. I'll try to be as succinct as possible so as not to take over PL's thread. I tend to ramble.

I told myself I was being very realistic about the likely outcome and the consequences. I knew I'd likely get caught, even if I blustered that I could get away with it. I knew it would mean D. I knew I'd lose friends & his family; I knew mine would be shocked and horrified and disgusted. All of which, as it happened, did come to pass.

What I didn't factor in, and where the "fantasyland" aspect of my A came into play, was how I'd feel about it when it actually happened. I was devastated. Rocked to the core. I came here to SI 2 days after D-day a sniveling, self-pitying snot-nosed mess. It was gross. It all hit me at once: how low I had sunk. How little integrity I had. How little basic pride I had in myself, that I would basically have an affair pretty much out in the open, advertising myself basically as a slut while wearing a wedding ring and blatantly disrespecting the man who put it on my finger. How I was suddenly exposed to every single person in my life as a liar and an adulterer. How much I would actually miss the life I purported to care nothing about. That was all before confrontation (long story short, I found out that my XH knew about the A while I was at work, before we spoke about it).

And then, I saw what it had done to my XH. Going back to the fantasy affair narrative, I had constructed in my mind a completely different reaction that he would have when this all came to light. Oh, I knew he would be angry; furious even. But I hadn't predicted that he would be so hurt. I saw him cry for only the third time in our relationship; the other two being when his dog died and when his father died. Before (during the A), in my mind it was as if an abstract object---the affair---was causing him pain. All those times I ignored him to text OM, those times I lied to him about where I was, etc.? That was "the affair" that was doing it. It was a self-mind-fuck of a way to absolve myself of responsibility and to avoid blame. It wasn't ME...it was "the affair." Seeing his pain stopped me in my tracks, and I could no longer dodge, deflect, minimize, blameshift. It WAS ME. I had done this. TO HIM. There was nowhere else to look, to point to, to hide behind.

So. Following all that, I had a decision. My M was over; I would be a free woman, as it turned out, in exactly two months and 8 days from D-day (edited to correct the timeframe; apparently I can't add). I could continue with the OM, wrap myself up in the bubble, and see where it led. Or, I could choose differently. They say the definition of insanity is to continue the same behavior while expecting different results. I chose differently.

I didn't want to continue with the OM for 3 main reasons:

1.) I was humiliated and embarrassed at what I had done. I knew this humiliation and embarrassment would continue on, even if our affair became a relationship, because of how it started. I knew it would make a stain that could never be erased. The OM tried to convince me otherwise. "It goes away," he said. "It'll be OK." But I felt otherwise and just couldn't do it.

2.) It would further disrespect my XH and I was D-O-N-E doing that. Many if not most of my immediate post-D-day decisions such as how quickly I would move out, how amicable the D proceedings would be from my end, whom I would tell about why we were divorcing and how much detail I would give, etc. were all made with that in mind. Certainly I would not continue to rub salt in the wound by "riding off into the sunset" with the OM.

3.) I finally got it through my head that the OM was a liar and an interloper and was not and wouldn't be remorseful for it. His only sorrow was that I had been hurt in the whole deal and that was it. He didn't give a crap about my XH---he and our marriage were simply not his problem. I saw him as an opportunist who wanted what he wanted, anyone else be damned. And yes, I was exactly the same way---the difference was, I wanted to change; he did not. And what would happen if we DID embark on our grand love affair of the ages and he decided he wanted someone else? What would stop him from doing the same to me? Nothing, that I saw.

I fear I rambled again, but I hope that provides some insight.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 10:54 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]

thank you for that honest answer.

Speaking as a BS, I can see why your XH decided to reconcile with you.

[This message edited by mike7 at 2:36 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

Seeing his pain stopped me in my tracks, and I could no longer dodge, deflect, minimize, blameshift. It WAS ME. I had done this. TO HIM. There was nowhere else to look, to point to, to hide behind.

Not all WSs see this^^^.

Certainly not by WS.

I never got the "why" from my WS and, quite frankly, I don't know if it matters to me anymore.

BSs keep asking why to try and make sense of this mess we've been handed. IMO it will never make sense. Showing him that you are no longer a person capable of causing that destruction will help him reconcile in his own mind with the fact that it really doesn't make sense and never will.

Sorry pizzalover. I don't know if this helped at all.

[This message edited by disgust at 2:37 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

@heartbroken: You call it rambling. I call it just what the doctor ordered. Thank you for sharing.

Wow this thread blew up while I was busy today! Thanks for all of the feedback. I am going to try to respond as much as possible to the comments. This will be a long answer, I'm sure.

Mike7,

If I divorced her now she would never settle for someone like him. He was just there.

Now she's pretty much destroyed. Not by me, but by herself. Not a lot of fun at my house right now.

I would NEVER settle for someone like my AP. I failed to see, even though it should have been obvious, that if I was with him, he would have done the same thing to me that he did to his BW. He sold out his kids and her to "be with" me, although I am guilty of the same with my BH. I "affaired down" too, since my husband is 100x the man that my AP was. I absolutely destroyed myself and everyone around me. This is all me - there is no one else to blame

Sodamnlost,

Gently as can be - he is right. Not thinking it out doesn't mean it's not true. I get the not understanding how deep the pain goes while you are in an A but you can't actually have believed it would help? You may have justified to yourself somehow that it would but deep down, assuming your moral code is affairs are bad - on some level - you KNEW. *THAT* is what he is talking about. You may not have understood the level of the destruction but you surely didn't think an A was a *GOOD* solution to your issues did you?

I probably realized during the A that none of my problems would solved, but I latched on to a fantasy and I had so much trouble detaching from. When I though about stopping, I didn't know how. My BH says that I just stop letting my AP fuck me or tell my BH about it so he could stop it. I know that makes absolute sense now, but on some level, I probably wanted to continue with the fantasy. I also didn't want anyone to get hurt, which could have been the only result. Denial is a powerful thing. Iknew what I was doing was wrong, but that didn't stop me. Could I have valued us? I thought I valued us, but obviously not enough enough to stop my sick, twisted behavior.

I get that he needs to understand why I became this person who could rain destruction on so many people, especially him. I NEED to understand too. I wasn't trying to be defensive in my statement, sorry if it sounded that way, but I was more trying to say that after digging 5 months in and coming up with reasoning, he either says it's too simple of an explanation or that it doesn't address how I could have hurt my AP's BW since I developed such a dependent, creepy relationship with her and her kids which I equated as loving her. I drives me insane that I can't come up with a satisfactory reason(s) that takes her into account. Any thoughts?

JD,

Perhaps instead of trying to find a reason he'll latch onto as valid enough, you could say "I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us".

^^^^^ I love this statement.

Sal1995

With all due respect for your opinion, from a BS perspective I think you are off the mark here. I sincerely wanted to know why, I guess in an attempt to make sense of the senseless destruction of my marriage by someone I trusted completely. By someone who I remained faithful to from the day I laid eyes on her.

The problem is that there really is no answer that will satisfy a BS in this situation, but a WS who wants to salvage the marriage has to field these questions as best he or she can and show their spouse that they're willing to work like hell to repair things.

I am trying on a daily basis to field questions the best that I can. I know it frustrates my BH to no end when I say "I don't know". But I really don't know. If I knew the answer to something that he was asking, I would say it in a heartbeat. My I don't know's frustrate me a lot, because I was the one who did this so I should know the reasons. I am willing to work like hell to repair things. I genuinely love my BH and want to have a life with him. It hurts me to see the pain I've caused him.

Lemony,

As a BS, I believe his reasons for cheating/lying boils down to selfishness.

Do you think affairs are that simple? I believe I was extremely selfish in my actions, but there has to be more then just selfishness, IMHO.

The trouble for me, as BS, is that if my WS said that to me (and he did say something similar), I don't know when he is the new person who is now going to heal himself etc. Trust is gone and it's hard to believe he will commit to the marriage now. And to me, it is a moot point after infidelity.

Do you believe that reconciliation can't happen?

I need to pause now to do to MC. I will continue later.

t/j

heartbroken0903, I'm impressed. Your hard work shows. I'm not saying that like my opinion matters....if you know what I mean. Just wanted to say it. I wish all the best for you and your XH.

end t/j

[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 4:27 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

Y'all are welcome and thanks for the kind words. I just want to help others, and pay it forward as I've been helped here by others sharing their stories and work.

Sorry for the t/j, Pizzalover.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 4:52 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

Do you think affairs are that simple? I believe I was extremely selfish in my actions, but there has to be more then just selfishness, IMHO.

pizzalover, yes, from my experience, I think so. I think there are many factors but it boils down to selfishness.

Do you believe that reconciliation can't happen?

In my case, it can't because WH is not remorseful. He still blames me for everything. I don't have the experience of having a remorseful spouse who is willing to do the work to heal him/herself and then the marriage. However, I do believe reconciliation is possible if the wayward spouse is remorseful and the betrayed is willing to forgive. (I stuck around for so many years because I know I can forgive, but my WH doesn't want to do the work necessary)

This has been posted before, and you may have read it.

http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course047.php

It's long. Skip to "THEORY: The Three Types of Infidelity"

Mine was the "Anger/Revenge" type of affair. Delusionally (apparently not a word), I went in figuring I was "owed" an A, and that BH would be mad but surely forgive me. It's common for WSs to fail to consider that our actions will have consequences, as crazy as that sounds.

This may not be my "final" reason, but I'm a CSA survivor and my daughter is now the age (6) I was when that happened. She triggered my unresolved feelings of anger and resentment about the abuse. I dug back through my M to pile on several more (mostly exaggerated) wrongs by BH, and cast him as the source of my unhappiness.

I'm even closer to DDay than you, I think, and I think it's normal for our BSs to ask questions like yours did. And to be angry, and confused. BH asked me on Monday, if my life is so unfulfilling (ETA: that I pursued an escapist fantasy), why don't I leave and find a new one? The flaw in that plan is: wherever I go, I will still be there.

[This message edited by 20WrongsVs1 at 10:23 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]