I told him I'm getting sick of waiting on him to decide if he even cares enough to try, and that we're his family, not his backup plan. He said, very heatedly, that the kids are not and never will be a "backup plan" to him. I made it clear that I wasn't, either -- that I wasn't going to settle for crumbs, and that I want the whole cake or nothing.
We are both looking forward very much to hashing all this out with our MC. I also made an appointment for tomorrow with an IC that I saw a few months ago and liked (though I didn't continue seeing her, because the issue I was struggling with was resolved).
And yes, some of that stuff bugs me a lot as well, but we're doing as best we can to make it equitable in the meantime.
YOU'RE the one making all the concessions while your husband gets to run off scott-free, playing "single guy" and indulging in his so-called 'relationship' with his married OW, and playing part-time dad while YOU hold down the fort and sit home alone every night taking care of the kids, keeping the house in running order, and praying he'll come back.
What's HE spending his night? Letting his mother cook dinner for him and then laying on the couch all night texting his little girlfriend while not having to do ANYTHING responsible like he would have to at home?
Why is this OK with you?
Your FIRST order of business is to TELL THE OW'S HUSBAND!! He deserves to know the truth just as you deserved to know it. Not only that, but her husband will more than likely rain a shit-storm down on their little "romance" and burst their little affair bubble to smithereens. Who cares if she cries to your husband if you tell? Does that make the information any LESS important to the BH? You need to do the right thing by him - he's as innocent in this mess as YOU are.
Secondly, not telling the BH is keeping the secret for these two sneaks while they carry on their little friendship. You don't OWE them that. Why should YOU help them deceive her husband?
So tell the BH and you may find yourself with an ally in this mess. A little dose of reality usally DOES burst the affair bubble.
The bottom line is that as long as you're willing to sit at home and let him live his new single life over at his parent's house - and come home temporarily to the security of his wife and family every day - all you're doing is enabling him to have the best of both worlds. Why WOULD he suddenly realize what he's missing when he GETS IT EVERY DAY????
Secondly, your willingess to stay home and keep the home fires buring while happily allowing him his little visits every day simply tells himthat you're willing to settle for his measly crumbs.
There's no honor in that.
In order for him to realize what he's losing, he needs to LOSE it.
You may have to come to this realization on your own, but you CANNOT nice him back. The more loving and tolerant you are, the more he will string you along and emotionally abuse you.
He needs to feel the consequences of his shitty choices. Right now, he feels like you will always be there, so he can dither and fuck around all he likes, and you will be his soft place to fall.
Please, please, at least make him handle the kids on his own. It has to be killing you to play family only to have him leave at the end of the night, to go God knows where.
I don't really buy his story about not seeing the OW, especially if he feels this fantasy "love" for her. Go stealth on him and get the real story. Can you afford a private investigator?
I wish you the strength to put on those bitch boots. You are nobody's option--you are worthy of a loyal and devoted partner, not a manchild who can't decide if he likes his wife or OW more.
You need to be tested for STD's. They spent time alone together. They are adults who fancy themselves in luuuurrrrvvve. They had sex. You need to get tested so you can protect yourself.
You must tell OW's husband. I know..your WH told you that YOU wouldn't be the one to tell him..are you shitting me??? How dare he tell you what you can and can not do. How dare he tell you that you can not tell his girlfriend's husband they are having an affair. And OW flipped out when she found out you knew?? So..it's ok for her to fuck around with a married man..but it is not ok for his wife to know.
Tell her husband. You said they were texting alot..get those phone records. That is evidence. Call her husband and tell him. The best way to end an affair is to shine a big spotlight on it. Expose it. ALL of it. Affairs thrive in the dark. Most of the time,when confronted,the OW,or OM, will throw their affair partner under the bus.
Honey..he has already sided with the OW.
Tell. Do it today.
This woman has waged war on your family. She has inserted herself into your marriage. You need to act fast. The longer the A goes on,the deeper they get. Exposing the affair may not have the outcome you're hoping for,true. But keeping their secret for them isn't working either.
He is lying that he isn't seeing her..he knows you know..as does she..and remember..she flipped out when she found out you knew...so he is lying to protect her.
You need to stop being so nice. You can not nice him back into the marriage.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
I just wanted to give you some hugs. I know this isn't easy.
I'd be careful about going to MC together if he is still this unremorseful. Its likely that he will try to throw the whole mess at your feet, which is bull. This is his doing, his choice, his fucked-up behavior.
My husband is still staying at his parents' home. (And, for what it's worth, it's really NOT cushy -- his parents both work full time, and they're terrible housekeepers and worse cooks. When they DO cook. He's basically staying in their basement amidst a bunch of junk.)
When he comes over to see the kids, I leave and go to a friend's house or do some shopping, so we're not playing family. In fact, after the fireworks outing on July 4 (in which he ignored me completely), I told him that if he wants to do family activities, he can come home and be a family, but that I will not be play-acting in the meantime. My rule is, "If we wouldn't do it if we're divorced, we're not going to do it now." (For example, we'll both go to our daughter's second birthday party today. But not take them to the park together.)
We've declared a moratorium on any relationship talk until our MC gets back next week. We weren't breaking any new ground, and it was just tense and painful for both of us.
From numerous things he's said, I believe that he's deeply depressed and probably has been for some time. (He also has a strong family history of depression.) He has agreed to see a psychiatrist, and his dad will be pushing him to make sure he really goes. I don't want to make any huge decisions until we either rule that out or get it treated. (I've suffered from crippling depression before, which was a contributing factor in me cheating in previous relationships. Though those cases involved college boyfriends, not a spouse.)
I'm doing OK. This morning was rough, but once I pulled myself out of bed and began taking care of the kids and the house, things started to look a lot brighter. Our baby girl turns 2 today, so that's exciting. She's been such a little ray of sunshine for me lately.
I'm concerned about your sense of self-worth. Why do you want to continue a relationship with a man you can say this about:
he's so deeply infatuated with A right now that he's terrified he'll never feel that "love" again if he lets her go.
You deserve so, SO much better. We all do.
Rock bottom became the solid foundation on which I rebuilt my life. ~ JK Rowling
I see you making a lot of excuses for him and being willing to allow him to continue in his fantasy life. Many people are depressed and don't betray their spouses so that explanation doesn't hold a lot of water.
This is a fantastic site that has helped so many people but you have to want the help and with that goes not always being told what you want to hear. Anyway, I hope you will reconsider and will use this site to its full potential.If not then at least remember that you are not a rug to be walked on, that you can't love or nag him back to you, that he needs to put in the lion's share of the effort to fix this and that you don't have to put up with any crap which is all this man is giving you right now. Find your bitch boots.
[This message edited by sg2008 at 10:13 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]
[This message edited by Violetta at 10:38 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]
It is of course, your choice to walk away from this site for now (or forever).
The reason it seems like there is only one way to handle things, is because most affairs follow the exact same playbook, the same cliches, the same phases. The details differ, but the cheater's handbook contains the same script. We are only trying to spare you the pain of a lengthy period of cake eating and trickle truth.
No one here will judge you for not following the advice you are getting--its enough just to hear it and to absorb it and to know that you have options.
I spent months on the floor attached to WH's ankles while everyone here told me to hefty bag his shit and throw him out. I had to reach my own breaking point before I took the advice of the veterans here.
Please keep reading, even if you don't post your story. I feel strongly from your posts that you are doing a good job of masking your pain, even from yourself. Please don't let it eat you alive.
We are here for you always.
I am sorry you find yourself in this horrible position.
While you have been getting lots of similar advice, I think you need to know that there are lots of people here that have succesfully reconcilled after an affair. It is a long road that takes a lot of hard work, but it is very possible.
The key to this is that both parties have to be committed to reconcillation. I know where you are coming from, no one wants to lose their marriage and their family. It is hard and painful.
The reason you are getting smilar advice is that most of us have been there and we don't want you to make the same mistakes we did. We have all learned the hard way that you have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it.
You need to make a list of what you require to make your marriage work. Do you need a no contact letter for the other woman, Mc and/or IC? Transprancy? What do you need him to do to prove that he is committed to making your marriage work?
THere is no right way to handle this horrible situation, and you have to do what works for you. Most of us are just concerned because we are in the 'have been there and done that' boat and recognize some of the behavior and outcomes that come from it.
Advice is just that, just remember that everyone here has been where you currently are. It doesn't mean you have to do what we suggest, I only hope that it just gives you the information you need.
You can't nice him back, you can't hope he will see the light. You need to arm yourself with knowledge. That means seeing a lawyer (no you don't have to divorce him, just know where you stand). It is usually when they realize that you are playing for keeps that they start to get a little more serious about the marriage.
I hope it all works out for you Violetta, and know we are here only for support.
My DDay was in late 2007, and my husband lied and ate cake for three months until I finally learned to pay attention to his actions, not his words. We are now happily reconciled.
I understand that you believe your husband, and of course you are used to relying on him. I think you are showing remarkable strength so early on.
During this time, please compare what your husband is saying, and what he is doing. I can guarantee you that at this point he is lying to you about several things.
He said he had felt this way for a very long time – even before we had kids – which flabbergasted me (and which, in retrospect, I think is dubious however true it seems to him right now). I asked if he had feelings for someone else – in particular, A, a female co-worker of his, who I’d also considered a friend of mine (I had long suspected he’d had a crush on her). He’d denied it in the past, and he vigorously denied it after the ILYB talk as well.
Two weeks after he’d told me that he wasn’t in love with me, he told HER how he felt, and she said she felt the same way, but they both agreed they would try to work on their own marriages.
He swears that it was emotional only, though they did kiss once (when he told her he loved her).
He told me that he had wanted to work on things and thought that telling me would just hurt me and make it harder to fix our marriage.
He says he is not in contact with her right now.
My husband acted this same way--counseling, caring, etc etc. We had good talks too. But he was still buttering up her too.
It helped me in retrospect to think of him as a drug addict. Not the upstanding man I married, but someone who would sacrifice everything and hurt me repeatedly for another "fix" of the high of the affair.
Take care of yourself and kids first. It sounds like you are working on that. Trust yourself first.
I'm so sorry, this is a horrible gutpunch.
Last night, he told me he wanted a divorce. Well, he didn't say that -- he said he wanted to talk to our therapist, then talk with me this weekend. I guessed where this was going and asked him, because I didn't really want to be in suspense for two days. So, I asked, and he said yes.
It has become increasingly clear that this "long-term unhappiness" bullshit he was feeding me was just that -- bullshit -- and that this is far more about her than I suspected it was.
I told him I would be calling the OW's husband. He told me that I'd said I wouldn't -- I said, "Oh, I'm SORRY -- did I break a PROMISE to you?!"
Her husband had already moved out, as I mentioned, but he had suspected there was someone else (though not who), which she'd denied. He was very glad I called and told him.
I also told my husband I would be contacting a lawyer (I have an appointment already). He said he'd hoped to use mediation. I said I'd look into it.
I told him I want the house, my car (the one that's paid off), the dog, and at LEAST 50 percent custody of the kids. I will probably go for more.
I then sat him down and told him my thoughts on exactly what his odds were with this woman (I'm VERY sure he's rushing things so quickly because he knows she won't stick around long if he doesn't), and how not ONE single person in our lives thinks he is making the right decision. I think he was truly rattled to find out how furious his father was with him. (I didn't realize FIL had been a lot more diplomatic with WH than I'd thought.)
At one point, he was sitting there with his head in his hands. I asked how he felt. He said, "Afraid." I told him I'd been afraid before, but I wasn't now -- and that I knew it was because I had done my best at every turn. I suggested that if he was feeling afraid, perhaps he should re-examine his plans.
He apparently did go home and have a long conversation with him. His dad told him exactly how he felt -- which is incredibly angry and disappointed -- and said that WH was quite shaken by that. He doesn't feel that it will probably make a difference, though.
I would still like to R, if WH ever comes to his senses, but I am in no way, shape or form expecting that to happen. The 180 is in full effect. I have an appointment with an attorney. I have a party planned for our 10th anniversary (an "un-anniversary party" with girlfriends). I have ordered pretty new bedding for MY bedroom, and have begun doing the yardwork myself.
I've also told him that he needs to take the kids elsewhere on his nights. If he wants to be a single parent, he can have the full single-parent experience, not reap the benefits of me caring for the house and doing the laundry and keeping up the yard.
Keep those boots on. Sometimes a little dose of reality hits the WH/WW and they suddenly want to get to the "Negotiation" portion of the evening. Sometimes they talk about "needing closure" from the AP, sometimes it's that they just "need time" to figure out what they really want, etc. DON'T NEGOTIATE.
You were clear. You were fair. YOU WERE RIGHT. He can measure up or not, but that's up to him.
I hope your WH take a big clear look around himself and sees the devastation he's throwing around and gets back to reality.
[This message edited by Reality at 2:42 PM, July 19th (Friday)]
What you have here is a massive amount of people with (some of us) decades worth of experience of seeing the same stories unfold over and over.
I'm glad you have your bitch boots are on. It's your best chance to save your M, and even if it doesn't, at least you are no longer in the painful limbo of sharing your WH and wondering what the future is like.
Think of him as a crippled man. You know how when we're in pain, we might snap at people more? That's him. He's being a jerk because of whatever is wrong with him. Maybe he is depressed- I did some research and some shrinks do believe As are a symptom of depression in some men. That doesn't give him a get out of jail free card. I've gone through depression and stop myself from suicide, knowing the harm it would cause my kids. Even when I cut, a part of me knows I shouldn't...you know right from wrong and he knows cheating is wrong. It's one thing to hurt yourself, IMO. Another to hurt your BW and kids as he has.
Whatever it is that's crippling him, he's using you and the OW to keep himself upright. By pulling yourself put of the equation, his balance is off and suddenly Little Miss OW isn't all rosy and perfect. She's not meeting his needs...because his needs are more than what one person can handle. He either has to begin facing his issues...and all that he has caused...or he'll turn to some other way of coping. Either way, you have removed yourself from harms way as much as possible.
And theeeeeeeeeeeenn ... OW texted him and he said, "Really? You called her husband" And gave me this disgusted look. I said, "I told you I would. And you might be interested to know that when he asked her if she knew why I might be calling, she had 'no idea.'"
He started to walk out to his car and I said, "By the way, he was glad to know. And I only wish someone had been as honest with me." He drove away.
I should have dropped it there, but I texted him and said: "Let me be clear: I do not owe her anything. I am not going to hid her dirty little secrets for her."
And then I REALLY should have dropped it, but I followed it up saying, "Let me also be clear that I didn't do this out of vindictiveness, and if I had, I would've done it a month ago. I said it was because it was the right thing to do, and because keeping WH and OW's secrets didn't outweigh her husband's right to know.
I am sure it doesn't necessarily feel great, but you truly are one strong woman.
Kudos, and hugs.
[This message edited by JustWow at 9:25 AM, July 20th (Saturday)]
edited for typos (I always have to!)
But since right now this is the road you all are most likely taking I highly encourage you to check out the Divorce subsection of this forum. Those women and men are walking, talking, legal textbooks when it comes to going through the process of divorce. Just about every situation you throw out they will know the answer (followed by a cautionary consult your attorney, of course )
I understand at one point you and your IC felt that this site was not good for you... but I hope you stay and learn. And keep those boots on!!
And funny: For such an amazing love and connection that your spouse and this OW have, she can't own up and admit to her betrayed husband she is messing around with someone else? Sounds like your husband found a real winner!
[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 11:13 PM, July 19th (Friday)]