Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: saltairnc (45082)

General Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long talk with fWH - feeling lost
featherweight
♀ Member
Member # 22690
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, this one is long.

Had a long talk with WH on Saturday. Started because an old "friend" (was a friend with benefits before we met, now lives 900 miles away & he hasn't seen in 3 years) texted him pictures of her new hairdo. I just happened to check his phone & intercepted them before he saw the texts, so I asked why she was sending these pics & how often do they communicate. He admitted that it was about 1-2x month but he deletes the calls so I won't get mad. He says they are just surface level friends, she's just like that - tells him what's going on in her life. We agreed she was (always has been) inappropriate and clueless about how her actions affect others.

After a couple hours of talking about feelings, acceptable vs. not acceptable friendships, rehashing events over the past couple of years, debating whether or not we have made progress since deciding to R, he tells me that he feels we have made little to no progress.

He says he thought we'd be in a better place by now, but seeing that I check his email multiple times in one day makes him feel we're no better. He told me that he can check the sign-in log of his (yahoo) email account to see when/where the last logins were - which he did & saw that I was checking while he's at work.

Then he admits that he has known (and foiled) just about every step I've ever taken to watch his activity - keyloggers, phone tracking, etc. and he would uninstall software after I took measures to monitor. I thought the software just wasn't working properly. Didn't know he was one step ahead each time.

I was left feeling so empty. We have both been dishonest and my attempts to get the truth were thwarted at every turn. I've felt so awful about lying and going behind his back, and it was useless. Learning that he was fighting me silently made me feel like I had lost the final battle.

He says he has nothing to hide - only deleted the programs because it compromises security (work phone) and drained his battery superfast, making the phone useless. He promised to not delete any calls/texts so I can see everything.

I don't know if I am married to a master manipulator, or if he's genuinely trying and frustrated that his efforts aren't enough? I believe him when he says he is not physically involved with anyone, wants this marriage to work, loves me and doesn't want to lose his family. Beyond that, I feel helpless, like I may not know the truth unless/until he decides to tell me, or it becomes something he can't hide again.

Feels like he has all the power, which is really hard for me. He hasn't done the work to become truly remorseful, though he says he is. Counseling was a waste of time for us - we tried several and got nowhere. Feels like I'm in this fight (for truth) alone.



Me:BS 41, WH 40 Married almost 10yrs
our precious little DD is almost 5.
WH had EMA with CoWorker for 2+yrs. D-day 12/08, separated 18mos.
R started 2010, decided to live together again after 18mo, very hard to trust again. Still trying.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: FL
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((featherweight)))

Really??? He has a 2 year A and you are suppose to be just magically trusting of him. He doesn't feel you are anywhere better?? Oh sorry I don't angry often but I am steaming....

Every family is different every family heals differently. But really???
I don't like his statements at all. Sounds cold and manipulative.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
itainteasy
♀ Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then he admits that he has known (and foiled) just about every step I've ever taken to watch his activity - keyloggers, phone tracking, etc. and he would uninstall software after I took measures to monitor. I thought the software just wasn't working properly. Didn't know he was one step ahead each time.

That is BULLSHIT to me. HE cheated, he gave you no recourse BUT to "trust, but verify". That's how you do it. It's not sneaking behind his back. He destroyed your trust. How are you supposed to just BELIEVE that he won't delete texts or calls? He was deleting the texts/calls from the former booty call!

He thought you'd be further along???? Well tuff fucking shit, buddy. YOU don't get to decide how far along in the healing process you are! Especially when he's purposefully removed any method of tracking him you tried to use.

This has me really angry for you.


Posts: 3398 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
featherweight
♀ Member
Member # 22690
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told him that I wasn't sure I'd ever be 100% "past this" - that he has no idea how devastating it was to go through those times. I told him I trusted him COMPLETELY even when "friendly girl" created tension in our early days of marriage - never thought he would actually cross the line with anyone.

I told him that I'm shocked myself at how often I feel fearful of being hurt again. That checking was my means of knowing the truth he wasn't willing to share. I reminded him of the things I was able to discover - new hurts after reconciliation. He apologized again, said he was doing everything he could to prove to me that he's not going to hurt me again.

I told him I wasn't sure I would ever be able to trust 100%, him or anyone else if we didn't work out. Sad but true, I need honesty and transparency and it might not be fun or comfortable to reassure your spouse but it's what I need because of all I've been through. He pointed out ways he tries to be transparent - giving me his phone to use despite having my own, so I can see he's not hiding anything. Handing me his (work issued) iPad so I feel free to poke around. He said he does that knowing there's nothing to hide. So why am I feeling crazy again? Is this more gaslighting?


Me:BS 41, WH 40 Married almost 10yrs
our precious little DD is almost 5.
WH had EMA with CoWorker for 2+yrs. D-day 12/08, separated 18mos.
R started 2010, decided to live together again after 18mo, very hard to trust again. Still trying.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: FL
itainteasy
♀ Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing about when a liar is telling the truth:

They are the ONLY ones who know it.

Everyone else has lived with their lying for so long that nothing they say has the ring of truth.

Are you being gaslighted again? I don't know.

I'm glad he's doing some things for transparency, but if that's not enough for you, and you need more, then you need more, and that's that. He should be willing to do what you need.

It's nice that he gives you his phone. He could have a secret phone. It's great that he gives you the work issued IPad, but he could wipe it clean before he leaves work.

He might be truthful! He might NOT have a secret phone/be cleaning the IPad/have secret emails/ etc, but YOU DON'T KNOW.

And the fact that, as you said, he's been fighting you silently all along doesn't make him appear honest or truthful.

YOU didn't cheat. HE did.
So even if you have been dishonest about the keyloggers, etc, it's only because you're trying to protect yourself, AND you're trying to verify for YOURSELF that he's the man he says he is.

You wouldn't need that extra reassurance had he been faithful.


What do you know for certain? Liars lie.

He's a proven liar.

He has a long way to go to prove himself otherwise.

((((((((((featherweight)))))))))))))


Posts: 3398 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

said he was doing everything he could to prove to me that he's not going to hurt me again.

He admitted that it was about 1-2x month but he deletes the calls so I won't get mad.

So he thinks deceiving you and deleting calls is the way to prove to you that he won't hurt you again? Do you see the contradiction here? Focus on his actions. His words mean nothing, but his actions tell you everything you need to know.


Choices, Chances, Changes.....You must make a Choice to take a Chance or your life will never Change.

Posts: 13772 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So he tells you his way of being transparent is to let you use his phone,and let you look at his Ipad...yet he admits he deletes things he doesn't want you to know about..so his "attempt" at being transparent is a big failure. He knows when he hands you his phone that it is clean..he's already deleted the shit he doesn't want you to see...same with his Ipad.

He's been lying to you about contact with the former FWB. He has told you her texts are harmless...but he deletes them..and he is a liar..so why would you believe him?

And since he has foiled all of your attempts at surveillance,and he JUST admitted this..he has been lying to you for years now. He could have told you he found the keyloogers,etc. But no. He deleted them..knowing you were desperate to know you could trust him. He chose to take that from you.

He had a 2 year affair. Trust isn't rebuilt because he shows you his cell phone that he has already deleted shit from.

Watching him without him knowing isn't dishonest..it is self protection.

Um..Im guessing the reason you've made no progress is because he hasn't done shit to move the two of you forward. He is lying..about many,many things..one being contact with a former sex partner who tried to cause problems between the two of you years ago...he gives you HIS version of transparency(which isn't transparency at all)...wow..the reason you've made no progress is because he is still wayward..you don't have to cheat to be a wayward..he still has all the same thought processes..oh..and the FWB? Yeah..there's more to their texts that "here,look at my hair."

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:01 AM, July 8th (Monday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7503 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
featherweight
♀ Member
Member # 22690
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the responses. I know he's lied so many times that I can't trust what he says. I may want to believe in him, but my heart isn't capable of blind trust anymore. I now take everything at face value, recognizing that it may or may not be truth.

His actions do speak to me, much more than his words. Knowing that he repeatedly took the software off without saying anything really bothers me. It makes me wonder how much he is willing to do "silently behind the scenes" and put on a pleasant face. Obviously I'm guilty of doing the same (and I struggle with this because he calls me a hypocrite for this reason) but I wouldn't check ANYTHING if he hadn't cheated & I hadn't found all my information that way.

To think of how many 4am nights I spent with his phone, nervous/shaking/nauseous over what I was doing to simply know what he's really doing when he thinks I'm not watching... only for him to discover & delete... so many times I struggled to talk with support people thinking there was a problem with the software. It was exhausting. Knowing I was actually fighting my own WH in those instances really bothers me.

He is a model husband/father on the surface. Caring, helpful, thoughtful, calls, texts, checks in, buys flowers, cooks dinner, cleans house, projects, cares about my interests, etc. etc. etc. Just really feels like he's not the same person when he's away from me. Double life material. Has 100 reasons for what he does, but the bottom line is that he can't/won't be transparent. I have to trust him to have a future with him.

FWB girl is an annoyance.. he says he'll stop talking to her if that is what I want (not that he's ok with it) but he will have to let her know.. he can't just "stop talking" without an explanation like he did to his guy friends when we were separated. Why he has to be there for women is beyond me. Why he can't see that it's a problem is even more perplexing.


Me:BS 41, WH 40 Married almost 10yrs
our precious little DD is almost 5.
WH had EMA with CoWorker for 2+yrs. D-day 12/08, separated 18mos.
R started 2010, decided to live together again after 18mo, very hard to trust again. Still trying.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: FL
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know he's lied so many times that I can't trust what he says. I may want to believe in him, but my heart isn't capable of blind trust anymore. I now take everything at face value, recognizing that it may or may not be truth.

Really I can't see how things can be any different especially with a false R and I have experienced that too. False R almost guarantees little trust, maybe permanently.

FWB girl is an annoyance.. he says he'll stop talking to her if that is what I want (not that he's ok with it) but he will have to let her know.

Yep he needs to let her know. If my WH were talking to an ol' FWB pal she would have to be removed so fast or my WH's stuff would be out on the lawn. I have no more room for idiocy in my M. I'm at a point where it is my way or the highway and I mean it


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
redrock
♀ Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((featherweight)))

Why does he HAVE to tell her when he LIED to you?

She deserves honesty and fair treatment? Yet he decides what you need against your wishes?

Do you see that her approval, opinion and ego kibbles are more important that your feelings. Your boundaries.

he tells me that he feels we have made little to no progress.

Per haps this is the case because he still lies.

He still chooses being in control over being transparent.

He engaged in the silent battle rather than have empathy for your need to build trust and have transparency.

Why not ask you about it?

He says he has nothing to hide

People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

He is still hiding. I would want to know why.

I don't get the impression that he is cheating again.

But I do get the feeling that he is not willing to do what you ask for. What you say that you need is up for his critical analysis and if he doesn't agree, then he can dismiss it.

He can say the words but not put the effort in. See it for what it is.

What had he done in R that has moved your progress forward? Going NC, and ending the affair are the first steps, no the only ones.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3156 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
featherweight
♀ Member
Member # 22690
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CrazyBlindsided -
He uses that phrase all the time and it sounds like a bad thing to me - he will say "it's your way or the highway, right??" I think I struggle with how his words make me feel about myself. His tone makes me feel like I'm being unreasonable and bitchy. He said he will go along with what I need, though he doesn't agree with it. I hear "you're needy and pathetic, I guess I have to do what you say even though it's rediculous"

Redrock- I agree, the reason we haven't made much progress is because he continues to lie and I keep finding small indicators that I don't know what's going on.

I asked him why the silent battle, why not talk about it. He said he wasn't sure I was putting it there, and since I promised I wouldn't he didn't want to accuse me of lying and doing something wrong.

Ultimately he wants to avoid the fight (he says) so he doesn't bring things up. I told him rugsweeping is going to lead us to Divorce because one day we'll trip over the whole pile and neither of us will have the energy to deal with it all at once.

I told him I'm tired of us walking on eggshells. Time for TRUTH.

What has he done for R? He has agreed to not form new relationships (friendships) with women. He has agreed to not go to lunch with women unless he knows it will be a large, mixed group. No contact with OW. I can look at his phone anytime. All passwords shared. I know where he is and who he's with at all times. He communicates frequently to confirm that I'm on his mind and he's always reachable.

He faught me on almost all of it, presenting hypothetical situations where it might not be possible. Now he appears to be holding up his end of the deal, though I have no way of verifying anything work related. No way to see his phone records (corporate account) and major security at his office building (no surprise visits). I feel like he has the control.


Me:BS 41, WH 40 Married almost 10yrs
our precious little DD is almost 5.
WH had EMA with CoWorker for 2+yrs. D-day 12/08, separated 18mos.
R started 2010, decided to live together again after 18mo, very hard to trust again. Still trying.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: FL
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, he's a Dry Adulterer. The fact that he's fought you on all this points, and tried to figure out situations where your "rules" would be unreasonable, is a clear sign of that. He doesn't get it. The rules are external and coming from you -- he doesn't really understand why they are necessary. That's why he objects to them. He's complying.

You haven't mentioned any therapy. I'm assuming he refused? You need to get him to the table, somehow. Maybe 180?

So sorry you're going through this. It must hurt.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2012
featherweight
♀ Member
Member # 22690
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It does hurt. He thinks therapy is useless. We tried with a few different counselors. He liked one - she was a straight shooter- but we live in another state now. (Maybe that's why he chooses to say that one was good?)
Dry aldulterer is a very good analogy. He doesn't see my pov, doesn't feel it and does comply (with resistance of course) but not the same as feeling empathy and true remorse.


Me:BS 41, WH 40 Married almost 10yrs
our precious little DD is almost 5.
WH had EMA with CoWorker for 2+yrs. D-day 12/08, separated 18mos.
R started 2010, decided to live together again after 18mo, very hard to trust again. Still trying.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: FL
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gently, what keeps you in a relationship with a guy who is out for himself, a guy who doesn't sound like understands partnership?

You list requirements for R that are all about his relationships with other women. Did you also require honesty, transparency, IC, MC? If you did, he's failed in honesty and, as you say, transparency. If you don't impose your consequences, you will give all your power to him.

If you still want to stay with him, and your original reqs didn't include honesty, transparency, IC, MC, have you considered negotiating a new M/R with those reqs?

That way, both of you will know if he meets your requirements or not - but you still have to impose the consequences when he fails.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this guy.

[This message edited by sisoon at 9:36 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Topic Posts: 14

Return to Forum: General Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.