I want to say cancel the trip, but that's more money than I've seen in a long time. The thing is, vacays like that are sortof antithetical to the whole 180 thing.
Perhaps you can go on your own? Get some space and time? I know it's not the greatest idea considering you don't know what she would do behind your back, but spending time with her is encouraging her to cake-eat. If she doesn't experience consequences of her actions she's less likely to stop.
In regards to her recent behavior, it sounds like she is in some kind of compliance with rules you have laid down. Is she expressing remorse? Is she seeking help for her behavior? The fact that this isn't her first rodeo seems to indicate that unless she does some life-altering work on herself you're never truly free from the possibility that this will happen again.
Keep posting. We're here to help you through this.
For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot
WS so often minimize their affair by saying they weren't sexually attracted to the person - or they didn't have sex. They are adults. They spent time ALONE together. If they wanted to have sex, they had sex.
Do you have access to her phone records? Not just her phone - because how would you know texts were deleted or what calls were made if you couldn't follow up on it?
Is she in IC? Because she needs to figure out why she was seeking something outside your marriage.
At first, the couple counselor we went to said, I need to see my wife's point of view, and I can't make demands. This was hard when I had demanded that she send a message to OM that I knew and it was over. She refused because it could jeopardize her work reputation if the message got in the wrong hands.
My wife knows I COULD do forensics on the phone, which helps with trust. My psychologist says don't do forensics on the phone (I believe because he wants WS to give info to me)
She has ageed to go to counselling. My only other big demand right now is her work email - will ask again tonight.
I had a great healthy day today. Exercised, made myself look and feel good. Didn't tell wife I loved her or phone her every 10 minutes. This drove my wife bonkers. She furiously called me at lunch to say she was too busy to see me. Then called back later to apologize for her tone it was just she was having a rough day.
You are right about the trip, it is just a rather big trip to cancel. If I go without her, I will miss my children too much and they really need me right now as they are worried about mom and dad's relationship.
Maybe taking the $5000 hit will go a long way to show her you mean business? I didn't factor the kids in, though... they may be looking forward to this too much.
Ugh - not an easy place to be in. You're doing well to keep putting one foot in front of the other and make the best decision for you and your kids. Very strong and selfless - keep reminding yourself that you deserve the same.
You can NOT make her do anything she doesn't want to do. This includes being forthright and honest. What you can do is make it perfectly clear that you will NOT tolerate her dishonesty and poor boundaries with clear consequences.
Do you feel you have the truth or do you have doubts? I get the sense you feel there is more. If that's the case then you DO NEED TO DO MORE SPY WORK. You will never truly have peace until you can verify her statements. Cheaters lie. Blind trust from this point is not protecting yourself. Get some spyware on her phone and computer. Put a VAR in her car. Let the OM's spouse know what's going on. I am willin to bet that the conferred and got their stories straight prior to you confronting. Many do.
As far a the trip goes if she is really sorry and working toward fixin herself and healing your M then it may be healing to spend time together. If not then I'm not sure its such a hot idea can you delay it 30 days?
Get an STD check. Both you and your wife.
Oh yes, do this, right now, and make sure that you have full disclosure of her results and that your doctor gives you advice on what she should have done, so she can't go see her doctor, tell him that she didn't do anything, and he then tells her she doesn't need any testing or does less than enough testing.
I can't make demands
Sure you can. You just can't enforce them, but you can enforce limits on yourself and your involvement in any relationship where your expectations (also known as "demands") are not met by the other party.
Take the kids on the trip. Make sure they enjoy it. Why? Because it may be the last family trip you make. If that is the case, then they will always remember it that way, but it is better than a memory of a trip that was canceled and the collapse of the family in addition to it. Do your best to manage to keep it civil while on the trip, and think of the kids.
But get that STD test before you do anything else.
I guess I'm confused. She has confessed and is trying correct? Why the 180?
I have read it but feel it is useful for a small percentage of people, mainly BS who cannot accept what happened, often with a WS who is actively blaming the BS for the A, and shows no remorse, little or no desire to fix the M.
I think that for couples who both know they want R, the 180 is not the answer. Good communication and rebuilding closeness can be part of the answer, but you have to find ways to know if the WS is sincere or still playing you.
But even with all that, I do understand you are in the stage where you have to find out more, and find out just how much she has minimized this, and most certainly, if you find out she is still involved with the OM, still in contact, then you might want to consider the 180.
I never did the 180 in either M. I suppose I had my own more natural version of it, where both my H's knew I would not be the one to fight for our M after they cheated. The burden was on them. My first H failed at that and my current H succeeded.
Doing the 180 is driving my WS bonkers. She snapped at me for not constantly calling her, she also is hurt that I am not saying I love you.
She has agreed to meet all my demands. NC - this one she said she had already started before I found out. One of the reasons she was upset a few weeks ago. Cell phone promises not to delete any texts. Email has agreed to let me know the password.
Happy that I am not really finding anything new. One odd one was that when she re-explained a time they went out for coffee, it was a little different. Originally he came to pick her up and they drove about 2 miles to a coffee shop to pick up a coffee and head back to work. The new story is they drove around for a little, stopped at this coffee shop and drank some of the coffee, then came back to work.
Also weird that yesterday she came home with a new pair of crotchless panties. She said a very close co-worker received them as a present yesterday didn't want them and gave them to my wife. Big part of me believes this as she knows I know the co-worker well and will likely ask for verification and I also know co-worker has been getting some erotic gifts lately. I must and WILL verify this with her co-worker today.
I am feeling very positive about my self/ego and relationship with my children. I know I can do this. I am not sure the 180 is right for me as I am not being honest with myself and my spouse, and this wigs her out and I almost could see her wanting to do mind-games on me if she thinks I am doing them on her.
This emotional affair she is showing remorse, 12 years ago with her nasty affair, I didn't see the remorse. I take that as a big positive. I am going to get STD tested today. She does not want to as she say "WHAT, did you not hear what I have been telling you. I had not interest sexually what so ever that way" Truly I have no evidence that this was anything but an EA.
Who gives crotchless panties to their friend and co-worker if they got them as a gift and didn't want them? Throw those things out. They sound like they could be an affair trinket.
What your wife is doing by changing her story is called Trickle Truth. She is changing her story, adding more information, so the first story wasn't true when you thought she was telling the whole truth.
Go see your doctor please. You might be surprised to find out it was much more than what she is letting on.
Edited to add: The 180 is not 'mind games'. It is a way for you to detach, not trick your spouse into anything. The 180 is to help YOU be more of YOU and trust in YOU. It has nothing to do with your spouse other than possibly breaking some habits of depending on them too greatly.
[This message edited by brokenblackbird at 12:23 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)]