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User Topic: Leaving the past in the past
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

unfoundling15 plays baseball (bear with me here). when he doesn't do well, or loses a game he gets down, mad, disappointed.

I don't get it. oh, I understand the emotion and why he gets upset, but *I* don't feel that. I've lost competitions.. I feel bad, then move on. with him, he lingers on it.

but even though *I* don't understand it, or think it's necessary to linger on it past a certain point, to talk about the specific plays, errors, replay a missed catch, an over throw etc.. he does. and since I can empathize with him, and know that he has to work through it in his own time, I can help him through it by allowing him to process it in his own way, and not laying my way/time frame on it.

now if a month later he's still mulling over it, I know that's not healthy.

same thing here. if you can't empathize with your wife, then her need to keep rehashing events seems like she's not leaving the past in the past.

2-5 years. yup. and that's just the average. it's not unhealthy, and it's not a stretch.

her being willing to bring it up to you is her showing her vulnerable side to you, which is a gift. maybe she wants you to feel bad, maybe she just wants some emotion, any emotion from you. maybe she's looking for reassurance, an apology, comfort....only she knows (and sometimes a bs doesn't even really know at the time). the more she talks about it, processes it, analyzes it with you, the less, over time, she will need to. the ACT happened in the past, but it is and will be a part of her present and future..in what capacity, will be determined on how she's able to process it, come to terms with it and how (if you're attempting R) you help her though it.

I can't say if you're remorseful or have done the deep down hard work to resolve whatever made you make the decisions you did.. but I can say that until you empathetic-ally accept that this is part of HER processing, she will probably either continue to need to talk about this, or internalize it. the later is not healthy for her or ultimately the M. it may make YOU feel better not hearing it, but how can knowing that those thoughts are still running around her head make you feel better?

it takes as long as it takes. humbly understanding and accepting this is only one part of it. your own processing and understanding of yourself is another.


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14852 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
whatnow999
♂ Member
Member # 35494
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm asking this (and not to be clever or flippant) but how did you just get rid of the part of you that WAS unfaithful? What work did you do on that part of you that DID cheat, and how are you so confident a "healthy, affair-proof" part is now firmly in its place?

I obviously don't know you except from this one thread, and I am sincerely curious as to your reply.

I completely understand the skepticism. Of course it must sound hard to believe for me to essentially say what seems like, "don't worry, it won't happen again".

As to answering your question, I just feel like I had control over my infidelity. If that makes sense? The actual PAs were not accidents... before (long, long ago) I didn't see our relationship as serious, and I justified it to myself. Last year, there was some sort of revenge element and the decision to cheat was a completely sober one. There is no motivation now for me to be anywhere near unfaithful. I already feel like I don't deserve my BW... I'm not going to do anything to make myself less worthy.

I've actually been very good about not cheating, and not blurring lines in the past. I'll try to say this in the most modest way possible, but there were plenty of opportunities to cheat prior to last year. And I never really faltered. So in my mind, it isn't hard to get back to that place. I know I'm capable of it, and I know I don't want to cheat, so I do not see why there would be any affairs.

She may. But like EF said ask her.

I would hazard a guess that She's not trying to ruin good moments, but She's in pain and expressing that to you.

We've made these choices that have blown our bss' world to bits.

Now being in R we have to face our past and current decisions. If being in R means going over every gory detail again and again, because it helps our BS heal, than so be it.

If it means "ruining" good moments with things from the past, than so be it.

Thanks for the comments. I am not saying that my BW is bringing up the affairs to intentionally hurt us, or bring me down. I'm sure it comes from a place of pain, and I'll work on being more understanding to that pain. And yes, her healing should be the first priority.

It is just the As are the one part of my life that I am not happy with. And I (understandably) hate having it brought up, but her healing is important and I will be more conscious of that.

Did you ever tell yourself, after any of the ONS, that you would never do it again? What steps have you taken to ensure those thought processes, or lack thereof, won't come creeping back?

No, I didn't tell myself that it would never happen again. And some of the ONS were when we were separated and a divorce was in the works, so I didn't even feel guilty. Maybe I should have, but I didn't. Again, maybe I'm an atypical WS?

her being willing to bring it up to you is her showing her vulnerable side to you, which is a gift. maybe she wants you to feel bad, maybe she just wants some emotion, any emotion from you. maybe she's looking for reassurance, an apology, comfort....only she knows (and sometimes a bs doesn't even really know at the time). the more she talks about it, processes it, analyzes it with you, the less, over time, she will need to. the ACT happened in the past, but it is and will be a part of her present and future..in what capacity, will be determined on how she's able to process it, come to terms with it and how (if you're attempting R) you help her though it.

We are in R, and I do want to help her through it. I think the perspective you suggest, taking it as a positive is a good one. I should probably know better and realize that it isn't easy or fun for her to bring it up either, but she is in pain. I'll fully admit that sometimes I'm not as sensitive as I should be. I'll work on it, and like some of you said, I'll talk to her and ask her in the future when it comes up.


Me, 30, Husband
Her, 29, Wife
One Daughter, One Son

Posts: 232 | Registered: May 2012
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just feel like I had control over my infidelity.

Of course you do. Everyone does. We might claim to be swept away with emotion and "it just happens" but like everything in life, infidelity is composed of choices and decisions.

I believe you when you say it won't happen again. I believe that it won't happen with my husband, again. Unless either of you decide differently. And, that doesn't scare me, nor it is the reason for my detachment.

You stated earlier that you did what you did because you were selfish and didn't care enough. I accept that it was that simple. The problem with all of that is because you didn't care enough you betrayed your wife on many levels and repeatedly and that damage is in the present, and future, of your relationship. Think of it like this; the nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshim and Nagasaki are in the past and most likely will not be dropped, ever again. However, the damage from those bombs is still in the DNA of those that experienced them. There is still scorched earth and evidence of significant damage there. Ignoring the physical and emotional damage doesn't make it go away and certainly makes the Japanese feel disenfranchised.

I certainly wouldn't want that level of detachment.

Then you and your wife must arrive at a mutually agreed on compromise that permits her to heal.

Maybe not talking leads to a M not being genuine.

It certainly sounds like that is true for your wife. If she needs to share her wounds and anguish, with you, in order to heal then you might need to assist her with that in order for the two of you to truly engage.

As to why she brings these things up while you are enjoying good times, I can't say. However, for me, while we were enjoying good times I was beginning to feel safe enough to share my pain, only to receive the attitude from my husband that he wanted to move on.

Who would truly want to spoil a good time? (I accept there are some that are just that passive-aggressive that they might do it on purpose, but in general, most wouldn't.) It just might be that she begins to feel safe with you, during those times and is looking for the comfort and reassurance from you that SHE needs to move on. Ask her. It might just be a compliment to the two of you that she's feeling safe again.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
solus sto
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Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You say that you are certain that cheating is no longer something you want. But what are you doing to gather the tools necessary to ensure that you are a safe partner, should your resolve be tested? Cheating has been your method of self-soothing for a very long time. What coping mechanisms have you learned, to swap out for it?


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8729 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

 No, I didn't tell myself that it would never happen again. And some of the ONS were when we were separated and a divorce was in the works, so I didn't even feel guilty. Maybe I should have, but I didn't. Again, maybe I'm an atypical WS?

Again, it depends on your value system. Yours. Do you feel cheating is wrong? If you have situational provisions than guilt would be avoidable. That's what I meant when I responded to you. I've always gotten the feeling you felt justification for your actions. They were deliberate and premeditated, as were mine. 

I felt my honesty protected my integrity. I found it did not. I was not in an open marriage and had not filed. My choices violated my belief system. My SOP's, so to speak. 

When you joined, just over a year ago, you were outraged. Now you aren't. So, what happened that evaporated that anger at her choice? Was it the actions you took that provided an equalizing affect in your mind? That's how it appears to me. If so, then how would any introspection have occurred? Your actions worked for your healing. I'd think those tools would still be in your inventory. 

If you feel "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" you don't have to be Newton. Quite a few people believe that. There's no judgement in my point at all. 

You seem to register her pain. Do you feel it's appropriate or do you feel it's unfortunate? Without it would you find your choices an issue for you or more of a "no need for them at present" thing?

Like I said, I think Jana Green hit it. She needed to see and feel her husband got the enormity of his actions and how they caused her pain. Do you register her pain like that or as something that while you logically can see it as a result so reasonable is also frustrating as you feel the conclusion has been satisfactory, to you?

Do you wonder if your wife will make the same choices she made? If not, why? I would think that would be a very common concern unless you feel you have control of her choices. If so, that dynamic is not just confidences in your ability to cope but comes across to me as a comforting belief in weapon superiority. A third possibility is detachment which I also understand quite well. That would impact any reconciliation attempt both from a personal responsibility aspect as well as a compassionate one. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
EmotionalFool
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Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If so, that dynamic is not just confidences in your ability to cope but comes across to me as a comforting belief in weapon superiority.

^^^^ Yep. It looks like his comfort comes from "I trust you bcz I know you know what the consequences would be. I have shown it to you which you very much deserved. Dont make me punish you again." I wonder what if she reacts to her current pain just the same way?

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 1:49 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


WW: 28 (ME)
BH: 28 (SI profile: CrappyLife)
D-Day- 15/10/12

Posts: 334 | Registered: Nov 2012
heartache101
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Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last year, there was some sort of revenge element and the decision to cheat was a completely sober one.

PTSD is a serious illness to have. Please put your wife into counseling.

If you are upset about her going back into time. Asking the same questions??
Have her write out all her questions. You answer them. Then you make an appointment with a polygraph person and answer again any questions she may have.

Good luck!!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
JanaGreen
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Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We'll be talking about the baby, and she'll start bringing up stuff that happened when our daughter was his age. Like suggesting there were affairs then... never out and out saying it, but hinting. Which drives me kind of crazy, because it ruins a nice moment.

I see what you mean. And it must be frustrating when you're having what's a nice moment to you, and she brings up the affairs and ruins it. That's completely understandable. But the thing is, to her it's not necessarily a nice moment. She probably WANTS it to be, but there's that voice inside of her, the one that's trying to keep her from letting herself get hurt again, that's saying, "Oh, the baby is starting to sit up. Remember how happy you were when Jenna was doing that? And what WN was doing behind your back? Don't be a fool." That voice tells us that history is going to repeat itself. She's struggling between her desire to be part of a happy family and her fear of getting hurt again. So she starts hinting around, because she wants reassurance, but she's probably afraid to come out and say it. She is probably trying to get reassurance without ruining the moment. But of course it doesn't work that way and the moment is ruined.

When you say it's a nice moment, remember that your wife is not you, and she is not experiencing things the same way you are, because she has been traumatized. I do think you are trying to put yourself in her shoes more so than you have in the past. Just remember that she might be having different feelings about things that are happening than you are, and realize that she's not trying to ruin happy moments or punish you - she's trying to process and move on. The more you answer her gently and honestly, and don't try to shame or guilt her for her very normal feelings, the better she'll heal. Good luck WN.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6776 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
whatnow999
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Member # 35494
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You say that you are certain that cheating is no longer something you want. But what are you doing to gather the tools necessary to ensure that you are a safe partner, should your resolve be tested? Cheating has been your method of self-soothing for a very long time. What coping mechanisms have you learned, to swap out for it?

Cheating hasn't been my go-to method of self-soothing. For a few periods of time it was. When we were first dating, during the one affair... which I can't and won't make excuses for. It was wrong, and fucked up, and indefensible. And then last summer, after her EA. There were many years where I didn't cheat, even though I could have. That isn't my solution to issues.

What I've done is I think had an attitude change. I love my wife and our family, and they are my priority. I don't worry or focus about anything else, and that helps a lot. Being a good father is not possible while being a cheater. And I don't want to hurt my wife, and I've seen how much the As hurt her.

I don't know how to answer the coping mechanism question exactly, but I hope that is somewhat of an answer.

As to why she brings these things up while you are enjoying good times, I can't say. However, for me, while we were enjoying good times I was beginning to feel safe enough to share my pain, only to receive the attitude from my husband that he wanted to move on.

Who would truly want to spoil a good time? (I accept there are some that are just that passive-aggressive that they might do it on purpose, but in general, most wouldn't.) It just might be that she begins to feel safe with you, during those times and is looking for the comfort and reassurance from you that SHE needs to move on. Ask her. It might just be a compliment to the two of you that she's feeling safe again.

I think the concept of feeling safe probably has merit. I will try my best to be more open to listening to her pain, and being there for her. My default position is lets not talk about it, but that has its flaws too. I'm open to reconsidering and will definitely think about it.

Again, it depends on your value system. Yours. Do you feel cheating is wrong? If you have situational provisions than guilt would be avoidable. That's what I meant when I responded to you. I've always gotten the feeling you felt justification for your actions. They were deliberate and premeditated, as were mine.

I'm not sure how to respond to either of your comments UO. There is a lot of truth there, and I'm sure you know that. At the same time, I have to be careful in what I say. No one goes to a cancer clinic and advertises cigarettes... so asking if I think "cheating is always wrong" is kind of a loaded question. I've made comments in the past that I stand by though.

I'm not saying I haven't done anything wrong... I look back and there are things I've done that are completely, totally fucked up. Indefensible. Cheating on Em while we were engaged. I genuinely felt sick about that, and hated myself for that infidelity because there was no reason whatsoever. Sometimes you can point to something... we were fighting, we weren't communicating. So yeah. I'd say that cheating was absolutely wrong.

The stuff when we were getting together is kind of a grey area. Same with the events last year. Could I come up with reasons... sure. Would some people think they are valid, probably.

Would this community think they are valid?

Not at all, and I'm not here to piss anyone off. There are some things you just don't say on a forum like SI, and one of those is saying cheating is sometimes acceptable. So I'll decline to make that argument or go into detail.

Yep. It looks like his comfort comes from "I trust you bcz I know you know what the consequences would be. I have shown it to you which you very much deserved. Dont make me punish you again." I wonder what if she reacts to her current pain just the same way?

No.

I'm confident that my wife won't make a mistake again, and I trust her. She has always had strong, strong boundaries and been a good SO. She screwed up once... but her screw-up is awfully minor by SI standards. And I've seen how much that hurt her, and I'm very certain she won't respond to her pain in the same way again. I'm also trying to be a more attentive husband and not leave her so lonely or forgotten, which I was probably guilty of before. My BW is an inspiration for me in that she is who I'd like to be. She is a kind-hearted, forgiving, decent, faithful, woman. And honestly probably better than what I deserve. I don't want to lose her, and I don't want to push her to a place of pain.

PTSD is a serious illness to have. Please put your wife into counseling.

If you are upset about her going back into time. Asking the same questions??
Have her write out all her questions. You answer them. Then you make an appointment with a polygraph person and answer again any questions she may have.

Good luck!!

She is in IC.

Like I said, I've answered her questions to the best of my abilities. The reality is she will always have doubts, and I can't give her some of the answers she wants. As to a polygraph, please do your research.

Thanks for the comment and advice though.

I see what you mean. And it must be frustrating when you're having what's a nice moment to you, and she brings up the affairs and ruins it. That's completely understandable. But the thing is, to her it's not necessarily a nice moment. She probably WANTS it to be, but there's that voice inside of her, the one that's trying to keep her from letting herself get hurt again, that's saying, "Oh, the baby is starting to sit up. Remember how happy you were when Jenna was doing that? And what WN was doing behind your back? Don't be a fool." That voice tells us that history is going to repeat itself. She's struggling between her desire to be part of a happy family and her fear of getting hurt again. So she starts hinting around, because she wants reassurance, but she's probably afraid to come out and say it. She is probably trying to get reassurance without ruining the moment. But of course it doesn't work that way and the moment is ruined.

When you say it's a nice moment, remember that your wife is not you, and she is not experiencing things the same way you are, because she has been traumatized. I do think you are trying to put yourself in her shoes more so than you have in the past. Just remember that she might be having different feelings about things that are happening than you are, and realize that she's not trying to ruin happy moments or punish you - she's trying to process and move on. The more you answer her gently and honestly, and don't try to shame or guilt her for her very normal feelings, the better she'll heal. Good luck WN.

Thanks for the comment. I will try to be more gentle and patient and honest. And thank you for the comment... seeing her perspective vocalized by someone else is helpful.


Me, 30, Husband
Her, 29, Wife
One Daughter, One Son

Posts: 232 | Registered: May 2012
Bee2011
♀ Member
Member # 33209
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I would bring up painful memories to my FWH (out of the blue, during what should have been happy moments that were actually triggers for me), he took these difficult conversations as an opportunity to apologize...sincerely, remorsefully, specifically, for what he had done. No blaming, absolutely no anger, a ton of humility, and completely honest. We were sharing openly, being vulnerable, and turning towards each other to help heal.

It went a long way towards my healing.

Perhaps your BS would welcome a type of specific, remorseful, vulnerable, and sincere apology for actions that still haunt her. I did. It allowed me to "close that chapter" and move forward.


Insert glib quote here.

Reconciling.


Posts: 69 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: The Hard Road
Bee2011
♀ Member
Member # 33209
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And what I mean is that he apologized for whatever action it was that led to the trigger. Not blanket, vague, one-size-fits-all apologies. These gave me peace.

It can't hurt to try this approach.


Insert glib quote here.

Reconciling.


Posts: 69 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: The Hard Road
AdamsApple
New Member
Member # 39262
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to put in my 2 cents as a BS. I agree with Bee. Even though my WW and I have pretty much exhausted every detail of her As, I still bring them up too. Sometimes it can ruin an evening when I spiral into sadness. But the best you can do is answer her questions as they come up and then follow them up each and every time with an apology and empathy, as best you can. She probably isn't looking for logical answers any more. She's probably looking for emotional reassurances.

Also, I don't know what her IC is into. But I've been using Emotional Freedom Techniques for my PTSD-like triggers and it is making a huge difference for me. Honestly, when I read about EFT I thought it sounded ridiculous. But it's worked dramatically for me in a short period of time.

[This message edited by AdamsApple at 6:07 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 36 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
cdnmommy
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Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As to answering your question, I just feel like I had control over my infidelity. If that makes sense?

This makes perfect sense, and is why your BW should be very wary.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
rachelc
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She probably isn't looking for logical answers any more. She's probably looking for emotional reassurances.

yep. And if you're interested in saving your marriage, you'll be there with her through this. Like I suggested, read up on trauma.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's


Posts: 5063 | Registered: Dec 2010
SuperDuperWonderboy
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Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been reading this thread from the start and have avoiding posting on it, but I did want to add my perspective on bringing up the affair during "good times"

For me, for quite a while "good times" were a huge trigger. I was blindsided by the affair and thought we had a great marriage (D'oh).

For a long time after dday, anytime we were having a good day or just relaxing peacefully, I would trigger. I am not sure exactly what caused it, maybe when I relaxed I would shift out of crisis mode and let myself feel. But mainly, during the good times, I would be reminded that we had all this before my wife chose to throw it all away.

For me, for quite some time, good times were a painful reminder of what my wife had thrown away. Which, of course would place the affair front and center and bring all the pain back.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1293 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
HurtButHopeful?
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Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why can I do it, and she can't?

BS walking softly here.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but I wanted to comment on this before I forgot it.

WS and I were talking about this last night. He and I are reacting to the A from very different places. He did the hurting, and is dealing with different things. On his side, he chose to do what he did, and he is learning to understand, fix, and then forgive himself.

On my side, I didn't choose to be on the receiving end, and I was blindsided. I am dealing with PTSD (or PISD in some circles.) We can rehash details of the A, and it doesn't make me feel better...but if he refuses to let me talk about my feelings and ideas, it would create new wounds. If he refused to respond to my Q's it would feel like he's still being secretive, and would reopen the wounds of the A.

I know you want it to go away and you want to move on. But for your BS, it doesn't go away. She has had a completely different experience than you, and the aftermath of the A has done a number on her psyche which she has no power to control, stop or speed up. She will heal when she heals. She will stop talking about it when she heals...there is no magic pill, magic IC sessions, or even set amount of time. That is the aftermath and consequence of a spouse's decision to step outside the M, and you have to accept the uncertainty and unpleasantness of her healing, getting over it, for what it is.

You should be grateful that she has decided to spend one more day with you. Personally, I believe I would heal a lot quicker if I D my H and didn't have to see him every day, sleep beside him every night. Staying with the WS is the more difficult choice. You aren't making it any easier for your BS.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
outtanowhere
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Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my book, cheating is the lowest, level of revenge & is most often committed by those not mature enough to know how to solve problems with logic & words.


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 747 | Registered: Apr 2013
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 7:21 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

outtanowhere...

If you can't post respectfully in this forum, you will be removed.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197970 | Registered: May 2002
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

 Not at all, and I'm not here to piss anyone off. There are some things you just don't say on a forum like SI, and one of those is saying cheating is sometimes acceptable. So I'll decline to make that argument or go into detail.

I think SI is strong enough to handle different belief systems. There are people from all types of relationships and experiences.

The reason I asked had nothing to do with pissing anyone off. It's simply understanding where you are coming from.

If one believes cheating is always wrong, different healing process. 

There are some on here that have posted similar thoughts before. I know several people personally that also feel that way. 

I will say I could see where one party having that mindset may encounter difficulties if the other doesn't also have that same mind set. I think it could actually create a catch 22. You show patience and understanding yet she knows you don't feel you did anything wrong. 

Understanding, to me, is key. I hate being micromanaged. In a relationship the quickest way to alienate me is if I feel I'm living under a microscope. I'm not like that with my partner so would chafe if I felt I was being treated that way. Looking at concern as concern rather than a tracking device was helpful. I also recognized that two people can have differences that while I may not always be proactive with because my mind set isn't that way, I can be open and understanding when situations arise. Not defensive. Not short. Not annoyed. Building a foundation of safety for another to feel comfortable bringing things up and express views that are not mine.

The problem with the sincere apology is how can it be sincere if you don't feel you've done something wrong? It's the "I'm sorry you feel that way" kiss of death. You acknowledge your choices caused her pain. You state she won't respond to pain the same way. How is she responding now? Reaching out? How is that working out for her? I'm not being snarky, a genuine question. If she's not feeling validation or remorse when she does what's her plan B?

I felt zero empathy for my ex. One of the reasons he's an ex. Understanding and compassion are a corner stone for a healthy relationship and I knew I'd never be able to manufacture either for him. I never felt my choices were ok, though. If I did I wouldn't be here as there'd be no work to do. 

When she expresses her pain and asks questions, yes, you answer, but the underlying premise sounds like it's, I'll answer but it's an almost third person informational statement along with a sympathy for her pain without the acknowledgement your choices caused it. More like a sympathy card for having a broken leg leaving off the part you dropped the piano on it because she got in the way as you were moving it.

I'm not sure how she would feel safe or validated by that. I remember my ex's response when I got home from the ER. I had forgotten beer, you see. "You ok?" followed by a sidesplittingly humorous, "next time duck". 

Result? I detached. Complete with moats and trebuchets. "Attentive" was not effective (and he could be, very). 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My apologies


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 747 | Registered: Apr 2013
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