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Newest Member: TryingToReform (45458)

Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Leaving the past in the past
BostonGirl
♀ Member
Member # 33930
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I recommend this all over the place in SI, and I gotta do it here too: read Janis Abrams Spring's book "How Can I Forgive You".

In it she talks about four possible responses to an offense or violation. One of them is cheap forgiveness, better known around these parts as rugsweeping. That's pretty much what you're asking for with the past-in-the-past approach.

This is in contrast to three other responses: refusing to forgive, acceptance, and genuine forgiveness. I'm guessing you're hoping for the latter.

In the book, she maintains that to get there--to get to genuine forgiveness--it requires active participation on the part of both the offender and the offended. The key is that the offended needs to see that the offender truly, thoroughly, deeply understands the hurt that was caused by their actions, and--wait for it--the offender needs to demonstrate that by making amends, and especially "transfer of vigilance". That means that the offender--you--needs to know the contours of your wife's trauma so well that you can "head it off at the pass", so to speak. Like, you know what her triggers are, and when one appears on the distant horizon, you acknowledge it and preemptively defuse the situation.

Here's an article that recaps the main points of the book, but it's absolutely worth reading in its entirety and taking to heart: http://www.dianeandersoncounselling.com/client-resources/love-right-now-newsletter-archives/love-right-now-5/

Seems to me you've gotten to the point where you realize your actions in the past were possible because you didn't care enough about what your wife thought or felt....but you're not yet at the point where you realize that your current complaint is stemming from exactly the same thing. Of course she doesn't feel like it's fixed yet, and it won't until she knows it in her bones. The Spring book can guide you both to that, I think, if you really live it.

It is brave of you to bring this issue to this forum and to stick with the conversation. Good luck to both of you, truly.


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and this post keeps on giving. Thank you bostongirl for the book recommendation. I have ordered it and am anxious to read it.

This was a good thread...much to think about within this for both WS and BS alike.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
EmotionalFool
♀ Member
Member # 37362
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not at all, and I'm not here to piss anyone off. There are some things you just don't say on a forum like SI, and one of those is saying cheating is sometimes acceptable.

Ok. Shouldnt that make it easier? U should have been able to just accpet her cheating and move on. why was it so difficult for u?


WW: 28 (ME)
BH: 28 (SI profile: CrappyLife)
D-Day- 15/10/12

Posts: 334 | Registered: Nov 2012
DeadMumWalking
♀ Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We'll be talking about the baby, and she'll start bringing up stuff that happened when our daughter was his age. Like suggesting there were affairs then... never out and out saying it, but hinting. Which drives me kind of crazy, because it ruins a nice moment.

Have you ever thought that YOU are the one who by your A's ruined what should be a nice moment for HER? Even if she did not talk about it, it STILL would not be a nice moment for her because she would be thinking and feeling that way. Not talking about it does not equal everything is ok, which is what it seems like you want it to mean.

Instead of feeling like she is beating up on you or ruining moments that should be pleasant, why don't you show her some compassion? Ask her what she needs during this time, during these trigger moments.

The more you try to 'put it behind you', the more resistance you will get from JM - because she is NOT done processing all of this.

2-5 years. YEARS. Not 1 year. It's way too early to 'put it behind you and move on'.

[This message edited by DeadMumWalking at 1:34 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2632 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
hitbyatruck
♀ Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I rarely bring up my H's affairs. BUT when I do it is because I have triggered more than normal. I think about his affairs everyday but only bring it up maybe once every 6 months because oh my H's reaction.

Something I would love would for my husband to say he was sorry for causing all the pain he did WITHOUT me bringing it up. Even during a good moment if he said something like "I can't believe I could have ruined all we have, I'm sorry."

Your wife probably thinks about the affairs 300 times before she says 1 thing.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something I would love would for my husband to say he was sorry for causing all the pain he did WITHOUT me bringing it up. Even during a good moment if he said something like "I can't believe I could have ruined all we have, I'm sorry."

This.

When my FWH looks at me in a moment that I am not triggering, and says, "I am so glad you are here. I feel so lucky you were willing to work on this. I almost destroyed this," it builds up our marriage a little more. When a trigger does hit, it hurts just a little bit less, and I am more likely to approach him with it in a gentler way.

Without this, it is still putting the onus on the BS to heal themselves. It is still avoiding something unpleasant in order to preserve the peace, which in our case was a huge contributor to the A.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1752 | Registered: Nov 2010
Daysie
♀ Member
Member # 38873
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am new here but I just wanted to say to you as a BW.

When my WH and I have a happy moment.

I look at him and think "Why"?

As simple as that !!!!


Me BS 56
Him WH 56
M 36yrs
A 32yrs ago with my then BF
DD 1 / DS 1
Who is this man ??????


Posts: 85 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

 Something I would love would for my husband to say he was sorry for causing all the pain he did WITHOUT me bringing it up

But what if he's not? Reading his post he's not sorry. Not about last year. So how do you address that? "I'm sorry you're hurting. Next time don't piss me off"?

He's not alone there. I wasn't sorry. That was my goal for ffs. I was horrified when I saw and felt what my actions did to me. Not a thought what they did to him. So, I divorced. How do you reconcile with no regret for intentional damage inflicted?

It's funny, read in the betrayed men's thread a bit a while ago and it sounds so similar, in some ways to how some feel after dday. The rage. The pain. The desire to inflict pain. The names. The detached fucking. That's how some people process pain. Leveling the one that caused it. I'm like that. Very much. Just don't know how one stays together after scorching the earth. Maybe the one that scorches "first" finds a way to make the soil fertile again? At that point does infidelity not become just one of the outrages instead of THE one? It's just "drew first blood" score keeping?

Serious questions, not facetious. I hadn't realized my ex hit it out of the park bases loaded with his shit. No more scores needed. Game over. You just take your ball and go home and watch films to see how NOT to lose again next game. Took years for me to get that. Years. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
hitbyatruck
♀ Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

not being sorry is something I can't wrap my mind around. I can understand not wanting to R but not being sorry for causing someone else pain is beyond me.

I said what would help me heal hoping to give WN a suggestion if he wants it, that's all.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It may not be the perfect response, but for the most part, especially when we were dating it was never about Em. I wasn't thinking about her, or cheating to hurt her, or anything like that.

Does your wife find it helpful when you say things like that? As a BS, I can tell you that I thought it sounded ridiculous when I heard it from my wife.

1. Yeah, I kinda figured she wasn't thinking about me, or the kids. Or his family. Only herself.

2. I knew she wasn't trying to hurt me -- hence the sneaking and lying.


Posts: 385 | Registered: May 2013
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I said what would help me heal hoping to give WN a suggestion if he wants it, that's all.

Oh, I know, hitbyatruck. My comment wasn't back to you at all or an argument. It's an excellent suggestion.

I was truly asking, what if you're not sorry? I understand most (thankfully) can't wrap their brain around someone that's not. We do exist, though

Not saying the OP is one of them. Just saying I am. That's why I had myself tested and kept going to shrinks, other than trying to identify just what the fuck that (my mother) was.

For the record...didn't even achieve my goal with my destruction. He got off on it. It was leaving that inflicted that blow. Figures. The valid healthy choice would have actually worked.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 1:40 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
hitbyatruck
♀ Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe you aren't sorry because of how hurtful he was to you? If I physically hurt someone who was trying to hurt me I wouldn't be sorry either. Like an assault of some kind.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
Topic Posts: 72
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