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User Topic: Bad email from Wbf, chest hurting
cliffside
♀ Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Secondly..... I'm not a witness.

Here's how I would respond:

I'm so glad you pointed out that I'm treating you like a witness. My mistake. A witnesses sees someone else commit the crime. You are the one who committed the crime and have been found guilty. So no, treating you like a witness isn't right since you're the actual criminal.
And while we're on the subject of my counselor, you're right there too. I need to follow her advice because she told me to dump your ass and that's exactly what I'm doing right now.

You are 28 and have a great career and the rest of your life ahead of you. Please, please, listen to the words of wisdom from all of us on this site. This man is not going to change. He WILL do this again. You're not even married and he's doing it. What will happen when you marry and get into the day to day of LIFE? He can't even be faithful during the time that you're supposed to be crazy, madly in love!
Please heed our advice. We have seen enough stories on this site to decipher the remorseful from non-remorseful. He is NOT remorseful and you can not, ever, reconcile with the unremorseful.

Hugs to you - you can do this and everyone here will help you get through it!


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
betrayed1965
♂ Member
Member # 14841
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sent you a private message.

Posts: 53 | Registered: Jun 2007
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know honestly. I feel this need to take care of him. I know he's insecure, and he cries a lot. I feel this need to take him in my arms, and comfort him and make him feel loved.

You are an enabler. A fixer. A codependent. You need to fix yourself with counseling, because if you don't you will find yourself in another relationship in the future going through this exact same problem. Furthermore, if you stay with this current loser you will not ever feel the proper respect & love for him that you should, even if he does magically get better & man up. You need to move on.


I'm also trapped between the person I fell in love with, and the person that did these things. He said he had conservative relationship values. He didn't have opposite sex friends. He believed porn was wrong. He didn't go to strip clubs. NOW he SAYS he still believes all those things... but his actions are so inconsistent.

You are not trapped. That's a lie you are telling yourself because you haven't yet found the courage to do the right thing and move on with your life. You are choosing to stay with a proven cheater & liar. You are deliberately choosing to ignore the truth of his actions. Actions speak louder than words.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9819 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
amitheow
♀ Member
Member # 4691
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jana you're right. It was so hard to try to keep myself together. I remember standing in the doorway of our bedroom and I was crying, sobbing and I had my hands framed in the doorway and I just banged on the doorjam and he said "OMG you are PSYCHO. You are hitting that door but you want to hit me? Well I won't let you abuse ME. No you are CRAZY and I am out of here ..." and that was the last day he was ever in my house. He took something so innocent and turned it around to make me look violent and psycho. I've never forgotten it. He was looking for a way out and when I started to lose control he realized he couldn't control me anymore or have his cake and eat it too - so he left and went to be with the OW.

It's so hard though in the momemnt to be strong and not cry and not fall apart. You think if they love you and they see that you are hurt to the core they will STOP and make it better. 95% of the time, they don't - they just stomp on you on their way out the door.


Old Timer, Just here to help
My screen name is: Am I The Ow? - Not Ami the OW.

Because in my situation I didn't know if I was the OW at first or if I was being cheated on. Found I was being cheated on.


Posts: 5085 | Registered: Jun 2004 | From: Texas
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I'm starting to wake up from a dream. I think that I've been in denial, and reading all the stories on here somehow woke me up. Everyone in my life has told me to leave. My best friend doesn't talk to me anymore, because she said that she can't watch while I waste my life. I started out on the ENA forums, and someone referred me to SI. Everyone on ENA told me to leave. I kept telling everyone that they don't know him. They just know the horrible things he did, but that actions don't define a person.

What reason did your counselor give you when she said you should leave the relationship?

She said that there were too many red flags.

One reason that I've been unable to leave is that I was the Wgf in a prior relationship before my current BF. I feel so guilty about it, and I know that I would never do it again. If I made that mistake and learned from it, why couldn't my current BF make the same mistake and learn from it? My counselor has encouraged me to confess the old A to my ex, to help forgive myself. I have mixed feelings on it, because it was 3 years ago and he's happily moved on and engaged now.

I responded to him in an email. I tried to let my feelings cool down some. Here's part of what I said:

You say that the mind is a powerful thing, and that I'm making it worse than it needs to be. You tell me to be realistic about the scenario, and not make it out to be worse than it is. Just the facts... you cheated at 3 months. You cheated at 11 months. You broke up with me. You got back together with me, and cheated 2 weeks later. You got arrested for stalking the girl you cheated on me with. Those are the realistic facts. You want me to be honest with you? The main reason why I am still in this relationship is because I put you before myself. I put myself in your shoes, and tried to explain and rationalize why you did it. If I was just looking at the facts of what happened, I would have stopped talking to you in April. If I was just realistic about it, and didn't give you the benefit of the doubt, I wouldn't be here right now. I'm with you because I am a forgiving person who tries my best to accept that people make mistakes and that things aren't always black and white. That things aren't always as worse as they sound. So no, I'm not making it worse than it is. I'm actually rationalizing everything in my head and making it better than it sounds.

His reply:

I typed out a long email, I deleted it after thinking it over and reading it.

I know you are struggling and I know it is tough.

I'm trying my hardest also. I love you. I'm sorry you are going through such a tough time.

We have moments where he "gets it", and he's there for me. And then we have moments where I feel like he's shifting the blame.

Another thing that keeps sticking in my head today is that about 6 months after we started dating, he looked through my computer. He found some very old, bad pictures from a prior relationship. I had no idea that they were on the computer, because they were buried in an old file. He called me a whore and slut, and said that he couldn't marry someone who wasn't pure. For months, he kept asking me questions about those pictures. Even when he broke up with me, he said that one reason was the pictures. I kept apologizing, and made everything an open book to prove I wasn't lying. The WHOLE TIME he was calling me those names, he KNEW that he had already had the ONS. How could he call me those horrible things, knowing what he did?

It just seems so UNFAIR. I've done nothing but try to make this work. I've lost my friends trying to make it work. How does he not see this?

The emails from last night and this morning also list all these horrible details from the ONS and A that I didn't know about previously. I feel sick to my stomach reading it. And it brings up more questions. I have this desire to just know, know, know.

I'm really hurting. I thought I had moved past the questions. I was doing mostly okay. Why did this come back?


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are an enabler. A fixer. A codependent. You need to fix yourself with counseling, because if you don't you will find yourself in another relationship in the future going through this exact same problem.

I'm in IC, and trying to work on myself. My C tells me that I'm insecure, and I attract people who feed off that.

Ironically though, before Dday, I thought I had finally met a man who was perfect for me. He was always good at talking, and responding to my feelings. He listened to me. He was (I thought) honest. He had the same boundaries that I did. We rarely got into any fights. I was convinced that I wanted to marry him.


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jul 2013
amitheow
♀ Member
Member # 4691
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex, the one I talked about earlier? He did the same stuff ... he was a blameshifter. NOTHING was EVER his fault. If he lost his job, his boss was stupid. If he got put in jail it wasn't HIS fault he didn't pay child support because the stupid bitch gor pregnant. It was always someone else's fault. So the thing about the pictures is hilarious. What would he know about pure?

and here's the thing you don't have to be mean. You don't have to be a bitch. You just be nice. Listen I love you and I wanted this to work but I will never get over it. I will be miserable, you will be miserable. It's JUST OVER. You know ... you don't have to be cruel. But right now you're being cruel to yourself.

When I joined this website like 8 years ago I drove everyone crazy. I just wanted to put these crazy stories on the internet and have everyone comment. I didn't actually want to HEAR what anyone was saying to me. I didn't take ANY of the advise. I just kept posting ... kept on with the "y'all aren't going to believe this ..." stories and eventually a couple of people who truly cared about me like Catwoman and Sithgoddess were like DUDE, we just can't with you anymore ... why are you even here? and I woke up ...

So ... if your real life friends are dumping you these are huge red flags. You can keep posting here and tell us all the you won't believe this stories and we'll reply but eventually someone who cares is going to smack you in the face with the wet dishtowel of truth.

I, personally, would love to sit here with my bucket of popcorn and watch you tell him it's over and it's mostly his fault .. enjoy life. There will be no more questions, no more drama, just OVER.

I will be so happy for you on that day. You deserve to find someone amazing and cute and sexy and fun just like I found with my now H. you won't find him with this dude hanging around.


Old Timer, Just here to help
My screen name is: Am I The Ow? - Not Ami the OW.

Because in my situation I didn't know if I was the OW at first or if I was being cheated on. Found I was being cheated on.


Posts: 5085 | Registered: Jun 2004 | From: Texas
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't fool yourself He DOES NOT "get it"!!! Can you see that each time you get stronger he changes his tune?

It's beyond me why anyone would be willing to lose so much to hold on to something so toxic. You may have messed up in the past but, that was a different chapter in your life & has nothing to do with your current situation. If you learned anything from that I hope that it was that you were broken when you did that. I don't hear recovery here so, now we have two broken people trying to limp along towards..what? I would not tell him. It would only give him ammunition to hurt you & trust me, he will use it!

I dunno honey. You've been given lots of good advice & so far I haven't heard one voice tell you that this might work except for yours. I just don't think you want to accept that but, I sure hope you figure it out. You deserve to have a happy life free of the kind of baggage you are trying to drag around!


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 758 | Registered: Apr 2013
amitheow
♀ Member
Member # 4691
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and here's the other thing. What do you need to know? He had sex with someone else. You have had sex. You know what that entails ... so that's what he did. No more questions really needed, right?

You're like me- you want all the gory details.

I remember once some girl contacted my H on FB and he was going to friend her but he asked me first and I said have you like dated her, been with her and he said yes, however many years ago and so I said well then NO. He said ok and then we moved on and then I started well I mean how many times? Was it during college? Did you like do it with her in this house (our house was his before he met me )etc and he was like why are you asking all these questions? What does any of it matter?

He was right. It was before me. He didn't friend her. He respected my wishes and I just have this weird need to know and visualize everything. My life has been better since I stopped worrying with all that.


Old Timer, Just here to help
My screen name is: Am I The Ow? - Not Ami the OW.

Because in my situation I didn't know if I was the OW at first or if I was being cheated on. Found I was being cheated on.


Posts: 5085 | Registered: Jun 2004 | From: Texas
amitheow
♀ Member
Member # 4691
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and here's the other thing. What do you need to know? He had sex with someone else. You have had sex. You know what that entails ... so that's what he did. No more questions really needed, right?

You're like me- you want all the gory details.

I remember once some girl contacted my H on FB and he was going to friend her but he asked me first and I said have you like dated her, been with her and he said yes, however many years ago and so I said well then NO. He said ok and then we moved on and then I started well I mean how many times? Was it during college? Did you like do it with her in this house (our house was his before he met me )etc and he was like why are you asking all these questions? What does any of it matter?

He was right. It was before me. He didn't friend her. He respected my wishes and I just have this weird need to know and visualize everything. My life has been better since I stopped worrying with all that.


Old Timer, Just here to help
My screen name is: Am I The Ow? - Not Ami the OW.

Because in my situation I didn't know if I was the OW at first or if I was being cheated on. Found I was being cheated on.


Posts: 5085 | Registered: Jun 2004 | From: Texas
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ironically though, before Dday, I thought I had finally met a man who was perfect for me. He was always good at talking, and responding to my feelings. He listened to me. He was (I thought) honest. He had the same boundaries that I did. We rarely got into any fights. I was convinced that I wanted to marry him.

We all felt that way. We were all in love. Many of us (me!) chose to overlook red flags while we were dating because we were sure that our true love would overcome any obstacle, that we were tolerant and would overlook this or that.

And now look where we are.

What's worse, lots of us (me!) now have a mortgage and children to try and divide. You can't imagine the sheer terror of having a liar & cheater driving off with your children to be alone with them and do God knows what and be a negative influence in their lives.

Don't waste your awesomeness on someone who doesn't deserve it.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9819 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
hotcoffee
♂ Member
Member # 39700
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lonely, please keep reading, waking up and sharing your thoughts. What you are going through is not easy but many here have heard exactly the same things at the same points in their journey. Your last email to your bf was good.

Posts: 59 | Registered: Jun 2013
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have made your needs clear. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely nothing in his email that indicates he's willing to give you what you need. So what makes you think he gets it?

You're giving yourself to someone who will probably suck you dry and toss you away. That's why your chest hurts.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:55 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10345 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I joined this website like 8 years ago I drove everyone crazy. I just wanted to put these crazy stories on the internet and have everyone comment. I didn't actually want to HEAR what anyone was saying to me. I didn't take ANY of the advise. I just kept posting ... kept on with the "y'all aren't going to believe this ..." stories and eventually a couple of people who truly cared about me like Catwoman and Sithgoddess were like DUDE, we just can't with you anymore ... why are you even here? and I woke up ...

I think this is what I've been doing. I've actually monitored the stories somewhat though, and not even posted everything. I joined the site to fix myself. I thought if I could be better or stronger or more understanding, then the relationship would work. He's made me feel like I'm the one holding us back from being happy. That if I could just let go and move on, it would be okay. He even sometimes gets mad at me for throwing the past in his face. He says that it's his past, and I can't blame him for past mistakes. But...it's my present. I'm living through this nightmare right now. It's not the past for me.

I really do feel like I'm starting to wake up.

I've tried to leave the relationship a few times. While we were broken up, he told me that he went out twice with OW just as friends (he had actually already slept with her at this point). I cut off contact, and said I was done waiting for him to choose me. He showed up at my office unannounced. He begged and cried and got on his knees, and I took him back. He continued seeing OW though, and Dday was about a month later. After Dday, I broke up with him. But I couldn't ever seem to break contact. There was a weekend a few weeks ago where I told him it was over, that I couldn't do it. He got his stuff to leave, and then I begged him to stay. I don't know what I was thinking, but I just couldn't let him leave me.

I don't know how to end it. I don't know how to watch him walk away. That makes me sound horrible and pathetic. I'm ashamed of myself for loving and needing someone who did these things to me.


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what makes you think he gets it?

I said that because he acknowledged that this was hard for me. He didn't send me an email attacking my personality again. Just said that he loved me. That feels like he gets it to me. Is that wrong?


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jul 2013
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please stop calling what he did a "mistake." This was not a mistake. Affairs of any kind are not mistakes. They are choices. They are deliberate,conscious decisions. Calling it a mistake minimizes the act. Don't do that. He strung you along for 3 months telling you he was "almost" ready to get back together..and having sex with you at the same time. he was having his cake,and eating it to. Now he's tired of you bringing it up and blaming you for not getting over this. He's an asshole.

You are an intelligent,thoughtful,kind,successful woman. He is no match for you. Stop trying to save him..he can't be saved..because he doesn't really think what he did was all *that* bad. Because if he DID think it was *that* bad..he would do whatever you needed to help heal the damage he's done.

Go to your closet..find your bitch boots. Put them on. Use them.

(((lonelygirl))))


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7677 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but I just couldn't let him leave me.

There's a thread that uncertainone posted on the Wayward forum called "What if it's . . . rejection?"

I think it's pertinent to your situation.

((HUGS))


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6808 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
amitheow
♀ Member
Member # 4691
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think he gets that you are close to your breaking point. If I put myself in his shoes and I had cheated on my husband I think I would walk on fire to get him back. I would feel awful. Even today in real life I don't want to hurt my husbands feelings. I really try very hard to make his life a good one and he does the same for me. When he hurts my feelings which is RARE he immediately comes over and starts petting me and hugging me and OMG I am SO sorry -- and over and over and over until I usually have to say ok ok ok I get it, you're sorry ... it's ok but I need ten minutes of space. I mean he is just DEVASTATED when he hurts me.

Is this man DEVASTATED tht he hurt you? Or he is devastated he got caught ... that his life is about to change. That HE has to find a new place to live or a new normal? I mean unless he was just beside himself over what he did to you, so sick he can't get a nacho down his throat ... then he ain't sorry.

He wants it all to go away so he gets his life back. HE did this. Not you. It wasn't a mistake. He did it because he wanted to feel good, wanted to be with someone different, didn't think you'd find out, seemed like a good idea at the time.

Being ALONE for awhile is way better than being lonely with someone else.

... and I'd break up with him today, Friday. then you have the whole weekend to fall apart, be sick, not sleep, sleep too much before Monday.

[This message edited by amitheow at 1:09 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


Old Timer, Just here to help
My screen name is: Am I The Ow? - Not Ami the OW.

Because in my situation I didn't know if I was the OW at first or if I was being cheated on. Found I was being cheated on.


Posts: 5085 | Registered: Jun 2004 | From: Texas
hotcoffee
♂ Member
Member # 39700
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lonely, saying he gets it today doesn't mean much after all the suffering. Has he shown you he gets it? Maybe he will - pay attention to his actions, not words.

It's a common story here that the moment the BS demonstrates that it is over - filing for divorce or moving out or initiating NC - the WS suddenly truly understands. They get it! After not bothering to get it until it is too late.


Posts: 59 | Registered: Jun 2013
ajsmom
♀ Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You come across as an intelligent, logical woman. Your chosen profession requires this.

What I can't for the life of me understand is why when you know all of this...

Just the facts... you cheated at 3 months. You cheated at 11 months. You broke up with me. You got back together with me, and cheated 2 weeks later. You got arrested for stalking the girl you cheated on me with. Those are the realistic facts.

...you are being so reluctant to listen to your MIND and not your heart?

Your counselor and your friends are right: Leave this relationship! There is no basis for truth with this man and it frightens me that you seemed committed to loving him back.

What exactly is in it for you in this relationship?

ETA: And - have you been checked for STD's?

AJ's MOM

[This message edited by ajsmom at 1:23 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21068 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
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