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User Topic: Pathological Liar?; Can It Really Change?
betrayed1965
♂ Member
Member # 14841
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am 6 years out from the discovery of my wife's affairs. Fortunately, she documented all of her extracurricular activities on various chatboards with various usernames that I discovered sequentially by doing additional snooping.

We are going for marriage counseling again - 4th counselor - to determine if we need to call it quits. Today, I am wondering about trust.

For starters, my wife hid a 20 year bulimia problem from me. She started at age 16; we met when she was 22, and we dated for 2 years. I only found out about it 11 years into the marriage by discovering an eating disorders chatboard. She is now a woman with a 27 year bulimia problem, and it has not been treated even though she has been to 3 eating disorder specialists, she has quit all of them within 2 or 3 sessions.

I found out about the affair from a chatboard, but the information was very sketchy.

I asked her specific questions:

Q: The affair appears to have only lasted 5 months (from this month to this month), did it start earlier or last longer? A: It was only 5 months; I swear. Reality that I found on new chatboard discovered later: It lasted 8 months. Her reaction: OK, that was a lie but everything else I said was the truth.

I knew she met him through Craigslist. Q: Were there other people you were meeting up or communicating with, or was he the only one? A: He was the only one; I swear. Reality that I found after hacking into her Craigslist account: She was communicating with several potential suitors , even after the physical affair began with the one guy. Her reaction: OK, that was a lie but everything else I said was the truth.

Q: Did you use condoms? A: Yes, of course; I swear. Reality: He wore condoms the first 3 times, never again. Her reaction: OK, that was a lie but everything else I said was the truth.

Q: Did you ever give him anything (buy him dinner or give him a gift)? A: No, never. Reality: She took him out several times and she made a special CD for him with his favorite songs (AND SHE HAD THE NERVE TO ASK ME HOW TO USE ITUNES TO MAKE IT FOR HIM!) Her reaction: OK, that was a lie but everything else I said was the truth.

Q: Did he ever try to contact you again after it ended? A: No, we never talked again? Reality: They had at least one more phone contact by my research of the phone records. Her reaction: OK, that was a lie but everything else I said was the truth. And, I swear, that was our last contact. When I asked about the nature of the conversation, I said, "I know he called you to hook up again. Did you tell him that I found out? Did you tell him never to call you again?" Answer: No, he didn't ask me that. No, I didn't tell him that you found out." I asked, "How did the conversation go? She said, "he said "What's up?," I said, "not much," and it pretty much ended there. I don't really remember anything else from the conversation." Of course, there is no chatboard to find out the true nature of the conversation.

There IS NOT ONE THING - NOT ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION, NOT ONE that was offered voluntarily. The only things she came clean on were the ones that I could prove through her chatboard messages. Of course, she finally learned to stop using chatboards altogether.

She swears that she has stopped lying, but in reality, her whole life with me has been a series of lies, after lies after lies.

When I asked her why she does this, she says that's what cheaters do, that's what bulimics who are hiding their secret do. I asked, "but, now that it's out in the open,and I am just asking for details, why do you continue to lie?"
Her answer: "I don't know."

My reaction: I know that she sees lying as a natural coping mechanism, and will NEVER TELL THE TRUTH unless provided with contradictory evidence (which I am no longer privy to).

How can I ever trust someone like this?

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the problems in our relationship, but this is a huge one.

[This message edited by betrayed1965 at 10:41 AM, July 19th (Friday)]


Posts: 51 | Registered: Jun 2007
Edith
♀ Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi B1965,

You ask the $64,000 question:

How can I ever trust someone like this?

I hope you find the healing and peace you deserve.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 339 | Registered: Feb 2013
ajsmom
♀ Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having been married to one, I am of the belief that it is very difficult to live with a pathological liar.

When I look back and revisit even the smallest lies that would come out of his mouth, it amazes me. Things that he really didn't have to lie about but that he chose to.

In the end for me, it was the lies that killed our marriage.

AJ's MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
Spelljean
♀ Member
Member # 35624
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH exactly. "Such-and-such was a lie, but that's everything, and there is no more to tell you."

Only about 50 more lies that I uncovered since. Every response is the same. "Ok, but that's everything NOW."

I can't ever trust him. The recent lies have brought back memories from way before the A even. Lies about all sorts of things. I wonder now if he has been dating women all along. Part of me always had this feeling inside me that he has poor boundaries, flirts way too much and crosses lines.

In answer to your question though, I think only with long term therapy. Individual therapy that is.


WH: 41
me: BS, 45
Together 18 1/2 years, married 17
DDAY 8/2/12
OW: EA- friend of 4 months
Status: separated

Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2012 | From: California
SweetheartVixen
♀ Member
Member # 4956
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I lived with a path. liar all my life. I believe it is next to impossible for them to change.
Mine wont even acknowledge that he lies. He lives in such denial so I know he wont change. He lies to me and about me. THEN he began going to a shrink and from the few things I know, he lies to him also. What a waste of money. He just wanted validation that hes a nice guy and permission to leave though I don't know if he told his shrink that hes with someone else, a bunch of someones and now his main squeeze and other various sex partners. Mine is also a sex addict acc. to my therapist and our MC.
NOPE, it is my belief that very very few can change.

I wish I hadn't wasted all of my life with someone so sick.

I hope you have a better outcome. I don't think you will ever trust her word...And that's sad.

Sending good thoughts for a better outcome. I have so little faith in chronic liars.


BS/60s WS/60s Divorcing and not soon enough~!
Its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice...

DD 6-14


Posts: 3095 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: somewhere over the rainbow
npain
♀ Member
Member # 33539
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pathological liars are the worst! For every time I have heard "I told you everything", I have found out at least another 20-30 lies and more mess that tells me that he is 50 times more messed up than I originally thought.

Now my only way to keep sane is to keep NC, as every other word out of his mouth is a lie . I realize that unless he WANTS to change, he will not. I prefer silence to additional hurts anyday.


S,beginning D

Posts: 508 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: New York
keptmyword
♂ Member
Member # 35526
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My XWW became the most thoroughly dishonest person I had ever known. I have never seen someone abandon their boundaries and embrace dishonesty as completely as she did.

There was no one else in the world she could trust more than me so that made lying to me all the easier. She lied to me, her family, my family, and worst of all, to our children.

She's had her come-to-Jesus moment and says she could never be "that person" again but I know that is a crock. Just a band-aid on a gaping wound. She's not to be trusted at all, ever again. I couldn't live with that so I divorced.


I Divorced Her.

Posts: 355 | Registered: May 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There IS NOT ONE THING - NOT ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION, NOT ONE that was offered voluntarily.

Only about 50 more lies that I uncovered since. Every response is the same. "Ok, but that's everything NOW."

Things that (s)he really didn't have to lie about but that he chose to.

For every time I have heard "I told you everything", I have found out at least another 20-30 lies and more mess that tells me that he is 50 times more messed up than I originally thought.

I couldve written EACH and EVERY one of these for my WW. after 3 years, I can say THEY cannot change unless they get off their comfortable ASSES and DO SOMETHING about it- which they wont or they have one of these:

She's had her come-to-Jesus moment and says she could never be "that person" again but I know that is a crock. Just a band-aid on a gaping wound.

which is to say "ignore the problem long enough and hope it'll go away". nu uh. doesnt work hun.

anyway, what works for me is

Now my only way to keep sane is to keep NC, as every other word out of his mouth is a lie . I realize that unless he WANTS to change, he will not. I prefer silence to additional hurts anyday.

sorry, i'm RAW because your narrative hit too close to home... word for word... and I'd like you to know that I really feel for you

Her reaction: OK, that was a lie but everything else I said was the truth.

talk about there being a playbook for this shit...!!!!

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my experience, these are spots the leopard can't change. This type if dishonesty is such a deeply ingrained part of the personality that the individual rarely develops the insight, or if s/he does, is not able to maintain the motivation, to make lasting changes.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8330 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
huRtZ413
♀ Member
Member # 39214
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a BS and I think sometimes I'm a pathological liar ..... can I change I'd say um yes....but it feels bad to say I have had to plant my feet and coach myself to the truth of things in my life I'm not proud of . I guess I believed my own lies its hard to admit it and I guess that's a start for me . But I want to live life free so I'm trying t.



me_BW
him_WH


I'M ON THE FENCE



Posts: 278 | Registered: May 2013
twokids
♀ Member
Member # 23266
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I endured 3 years of WH's continuos lies before I finally called it quits. During these 3 years I did EVERYTHING I could to turn our M around, MC, IC, workshops, retreats, books, you name it.

I was promised monogamy, NC, and undying love. Turns out NOTHING I did changed his lying and cheating behavior. I now doubt his ability to love, much less tell the truth.


Me: BS, 56
Him: WH, 50
5+ DDAYS; 10+ OW
Two sons, 16 & 18
M 19 yrs - detaching to divorce
In-house Separation since 7/2012

Posts: 393 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: California
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*sigh* the lies *double sigh*

Sultan outright refuses to be honest. Just flat-out won't do it. I heard all of the same type of shit that you did. Then I 'woke up' and realized that he was just a f'n liar.

It got to the point where his lies were a real sticking point for me.....gee, imagine that. How unreasonable of me to expect someone to tell me the truth when I ask a question, no matter the subject.

He won't respond either way when I call him out on his lies. I'd accuse him of lying. He'd deflect by telling me to stop resorting to name-calling and being judgmental.

Here's my favorite justification.....

"I happen to know people that haven't been honest that are happily married. Multiple couples. Their spouses just forgave them. I have also had multiple doctors tell me once the spouse knows you cheated, that is all the truth needed for forgiveness and moving on. Actually, I have been told that too much information is bad."

I'm divorcing him. If his lips are moving....he's lying in some way, shape, or form.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7698 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stronger08
♂ Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 4:39 AM, July 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was M to a pathological liar. She not only lied about her affairs. But she would lie about mundane shit as well. Before the affairs I could tolerate the little lies she told. I kind of simply dismissed them as her way of boosting her self image. But after her affairs I saw that she simply could never tell the truth about anything. My view of her lying really became the main reason I drifted to D. I had given her ample opportunity to come clean. But even with the offer of a clean slate she chose to continue to lie. That for me was very disrespectful. Perhaps more so than her affairs. I'm sure I posted the exact same things you just listed early on in my journey. With each and every lie she dug the grave for the M. One shovel full for each lie. After awhile she was the proverbial six feet down. At that point there was no other option but to leave and seek D. The way I see it is this. They cant have remorse until they are honest. And if there is no honesty or remorse trying to R is a big waste of time. Lying and minimizing just rubs salt into the wounds they inflicted on you. So unless your a masochist its best to end your pain.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5558 | Registered: Nov 2007
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, July 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got what I call the jack Nicholson defence for her lying "you can't handle the truth", of course, it was cushioned in polite speak, but I kept remembering that scene from a few good men where mr Nicholson barks that statement. I think the fact is she's the one who cannot handle her own truth hence the lies are almost to convince herself (the 'lie often enough so that it becomes the truth' school of thought).

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Crushed1
♀ Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can I ever trust someone like this?

Quite simply...you can't. Ever.

Liars keep everyone off balance. Because of their lies, every situation is controlled by them.

I have dealt with several pathological liars. I have learned not to believe any thing that they say unless it can be verified by some other means than their mouth speaking it.

Sad truth is pathological liars seldom change as the habit is deeply engrained and IS who they are. Possibly years of personal IC could root out the problem, but until the PL confronts their self there is no hope for change.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9654 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, July 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are all kinds of reasons people lie. Many are situational liars but a few special people are compulsive or pathological.

With compulsive liars it's more comfortable for them to lie than to tell the truth. Make it uncomfortable. Since they lie with about every sentence call them on it just as often.

I had a friend like this. She would like about shit that made no sense. Things that would happen forgetting that I was there too or other's were. Mostly people wouldn't say anything out of politeness or discomfort calling her one it. I'd simply say, "that didn't happen, or that didn't happen like that". It embarrassed her and was uncomfortable but the more it happens they get the message you won't tolerate it.

They absolutely can change. They won't as long as it continues to work for them. At some point a decision will need to be made if having someone you know you can't trust is worth it.

She did change. Took her years and a lot of work. The difference is quite astonishing.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 1:30 PM, July 20th (Saturday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
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