I've read your implores to implement NC with NPD and I've found this to be the only way to deal with X. Our graduating teen's only request for a grad gift is a family trip to Disney (minus dad as teen is estranged from him because of his controlling, manipulative, angry, deflective behavior, but of course, only when questioned). I slipped recently, broke NC, and agreed to let him redeem reward points for airline tickets for us to get there b/c I have no job in sight. How badly am I going to pay for that?
[This message edited by MakingLemonade at 3:18 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]
No way to know the answer to your question. Perhaps the kickback from being the "good guy" for providing the trip to you will be ego kibble enough. But it would not surprise me if an NPD used the generosity to make you feel incapable, ungrateful, or dependent. If you can take the "gift" and ignore the rest, then Good For You!!
By definition, a gift has no strings or obligation implied. Of course NPD don't have a normal dictionary.
Since you are already in the recipient role, effusive thanks and appreciation at the level he is likely to expect might head off the worst of his jabs??
You know him best. Use his previous behaviors and form to interact going forward. They don't really change, so much as ramp up the obviousness. Or maybe it is just clearer for our recognition.
Since not everyone gets down to Fun and Games to see the shenanigans going on there, I wanted to point out that our Tribemate and friend jjct is participating in an epic chess battle against SerJr as a fundraiser for SI. Go check it out and lend support for JJ and SI!
[This message edited by woundedby2 at 1:49 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
Many of you know my struggles with DD18 and her NPD father.
DD18 exhibits many signs of NPD but it is confusing because her father has actively alienated her from me and projected his hatred of me onto her. Regardless, she has behaved horribly to me on many occasions involving quite a bit of theft.
The last thefts sent me reeling because I had happily welcomed her back to my home (think prodigal son), helped her emotionally and financially and at 18 she intentionally stole from me, lied to me, blamed me and tried to play all kinds of emotionally abusive games with me.
As a consequence, I asked her to move out. That killed me as she had no where to go and landed at her NPD dad's home with his live in GF. GF has no boundaries and is selfish and is actively working to install herself as DD18's mother.
DD18 has done maybe 3% of what I asked her to do for restitution and has done none of the emotional work of trying to rebuild trust or a relationship with me. In her mind I am the villian and the bad guy.
Just received a text from NPD.
I would like that DD18 stay with you 1 weekend a month at least. Prefer it to be the same one each month. Thoughts about that?
Yeah I have thought about that. NO WAY
Guess living with the kid he so royally used to get back at me isn't turning out so well with GF. LOL
However, due to the NPD I need to tred carefully in my response.
I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas.
Short, emotion-less, and to the point.
It leaves the door open for DD to get right, but as of right now...no.
I don't know if FWH is N or not, though he fits some of the criteria. The big issue is lying. He has lied for his entire life, big things, small things, everything. I knew about it before M, tolerated it to my detriment.
So after his A almost 4 years ago, I said he must stop lying. Realistically, my IC told me he probably CANNOT stop it after a lifetime of this behavior (he is 50). But I certainly cannot continue to live this way.
So Monday night I caught him in a lie. Red handed. I realized that my "overlooking" his lies was the result of his predictable rages when confronted. Monday was no different. He clung to the absurdity of the lie, which was irrefutible. I finally said I want a D. He threw his ring, screamed obscenities in my face and stormed out of the house.
Later, he came back contrite, said that he must have "forgotten" that he had done this thing he earlier claimed he did not. Apologized. Has been over the top sweet and apologetic.
I realize this is the pattern. I realize that his rage is his attempt (successful!) to control me. I realize I cannot trust a liar.
Usually he is sweet and loving. But he even carries this too far, saying "I love you" like 100 times a day. Once he admitted to me, after I asked, that he does that so he can hear me say it back.
A few months ago, he told me that I have a skinny neck, and that he could snap it. Now he denies that he said that. I don't understand why or how anyone could say that to someone they love.
He tells me things like he is nothing without me. Like he does not have anyone but me.
I am overwhelmed with grief. The truth is I hate my life, I cannot stand the thought of facing another day. I feel guilty for still carrying the pain of his A. I feel guilty for having tolerated his lies all these years (20). I work at home alone and have no friends or family. I have two grown kids, but I cannot burden them with this ugliness.
I am about to become a grandmother and should feel joy, but I feel more like I am just waiting to die. I am out of strength, I am out of courage and I am feeling so terrible about myself.
I think I know what the advice will be, but I just do not feel strong enough to do this. My pain is indescribable. I am praying for healing for all of us.
[This message edited by Edith at 11:41 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
Since you mentioned praying, I will mention that the Lord will not burden you with more than you can bear. I trust in this. Do you?
I too, really struggled and still struggle with forgiveness. By that I mean forgiving myself.
I try to treat myself as gently as I would treat someone else (which is hard). I work hard at everything I do. It is a reliable character trait (actually got unhealthy with the NPD...I was too reliable and tolerated the untolerable for way to long)
What I had to come to grips with was the idea that I did the best I could with what I knew at that time.
Now that I know better, I make different choices.
I hope that helps you.
Also, try not to let him and his choices steal anymore of your time. He is not worth it. Your grandbaby deserves all of you, don't you think?
[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 11:56 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
I think since she is still young, you still have hope. And this *could* be juvenile acting out. (hopefully) All the more important for you to hold your bottom line.
It seems one of the commonalities with NPD's is that they rarely, if ever suffered consequences for their bad behavior. They either simply got away with the bad things they did, or were constantly "rescued" by enabling parents.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 12:18 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
My reason for this post is to let you know that I will be needing lots of support as I navigate through this D with him. I am praying for a quick and painless D (one can hope, right?), but I know this is not likely. I already have a few phrases (gleaned from this thread) at the ready:
"I'm sorry you feel that way."
"It's hard when your actions have consequences."
NC = no new hurts
Kids and finances only.
Thanks, and hugs to everyone who has been through the hell of being M to an NPD.
So sorry you're having to deal with any of this, the constant lying is more than most people could ever take!
ďI don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman
@jjct, thank you, and good luck with the chess match! Hoping to see Ser in a dress...
Thank you WoundedOpus. Very insightful comments, and I agree that he fits many of the traits of BPD. Right after his A, he was actually diagnosed as bipolar, started on meds which threw him in a tailspin. He promptly stopped them. I am convinced he has some personality disorder, just seems to be a mix of several, KWIM?
N and N, I am praying for you to find the path to peace. Praying for us all.
We just decided that we were getting D'd last night.
Tonight, he says that he wants to talk about Christmas vacation bc he wants to take the kids to visit his parents (2000 miles away). He first says that of course I will get them for Christmas, but he wants to take them for a week starting a few days after Christmas.
I filed for D in June, but I have postponed our court date a couple of times bc we were "reconciling." He still has not given my L his pay stub and we have not negotiated SS/CS/parenting plan, etc. Can I use the fact that he wants to take the kids to see his parents as a bargaining chip to get some of what I want? My offer for the parenting plan was EOW for him (I'm a SAHM). He said that wouldn't be enough, but I have no idea how much he is going to ask for. He is a L, so I know he will use all the tricks he can. I sent an email to my L tonight, but would appreciate advice on how to handle an NPD in this situation. Thank you.
And "bargaining" with an NPD? Forget it. Doesn't work. They want, want, want. And maybe if there are some bread crumbs left, you can have them.
Rule #1 when divorcing an NPD
Do not assume and proceed as if you are dealing with a normal or rational person, because you are NOT.
Rule #2 when divorcing an NPD
Do not make the mistake of thinking, "Oh he would never..." because he WILL and worse than you ever imagined.
Rule #3 when divorcing an NPD
Rule #4 when divorcing an NPD
Let your lawyer do their job. Don't negotiate yourself. That's why you're paying a lawyer.
[This message edited by fight4respect at 10:56 AM, November 1st (Friday)]
I am starting to psych myself out, bc I just realized that I not only have one NPD to deal with, but TWO - H and his mother that he is enmeshed with. She hates me. The morning after we decided to get D'd, he took his starbucks coffeemaker that she gave him to his condo (he's had the condo since I filed in June, but hasn't lived there yet). I thought it was strange. Now he is asking to go home to see his mommy for Christmas with the kids. I'm sure he is plotting with her. Added to that is the fact that he is a $600/hr big-city lawyer (not family law, though) with big-city lawyer friends. Sometimes it is overwhelming.
I'm no slouch (graduate degree, LOTS of support), but somedays it just feels like David and Goliath (oh wait, that turned out well for the underdog, didn't it?)