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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 12
MakingLemonade
♀ Member
Member # 41143
Question  Posted: 3:17 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't tell you what a relief it has been to me to browse through your post and affirm, my charming XWH w/NPD is crazy but now I realize he is somewhat predictable! I'm a newbie to SI and here's my story:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=512071

I've read your implores to implement NC with NPD and I've found this to be the only way to deal with X. Our graduating teen's only request for a grad gift is a family trip to Disney (minus dad as teen is estranged from him because of his controlling, manipulative, angry, deflective behavior, but of course, only when questioned). I slipped recently, broke NC, and agreed to let him redeem reward points for airline tickets for us to get there b/c I have no job in sight. How badly am I going to pay for that?

[This message edited by MakingLemonade at 3:18 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: 40's; XBS Him: 40's; XWS/NPD/SA
D-day 1: 5/2007- A #1; 7/2007 A #1 continued-R
D-day 2: 3/2013 A #2/multi-ONSs; 4/2013 A #2 continues to present
D: 7/2013 (25 yrs together; days shy of 22nd anniversary-GOAL MET!)
Our kids: teen & tween

Posts: 168 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Southern US
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Lemonade,

No way to know the answer to your question. Perhaps the kickback from being the "good guy" for providing the trip to you will be ego kibble enough. But it would not surprise me if an NPD used the generosity to make you feel incapable, ungrateful, or dependent. If you can take the "gift" and ignore the rest, then Good For You!!

By definition, a gift has no strings or obligation implied. Of course NPD don't have a normal dictionary.

Since you are already in the recipient role, effusive thanks and appreciation at the level he is likely to expect might head off the worst of his jabs??

You know him best. Use his previous behaviors and form to interact going forward. They don't really change, so much as ramp up the obviousness. Or maybe it is just clearer for our recognition.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5289 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 1:41 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, MakingLemonade. I'm sure he's feeling like he's Father of the Year now. Ugh. I hope he won't become too much an ass over his gift. Go back to NC as much as you can. You know there is peace and safety in NC.


***************************************************************

Since not everyone gets down to Fun and Games to see the shenanigans going on there, I wanted to point out that our Tribemate and friend jjct is participating in an epic chess battle against SerJr as a fundraiser for SI. Go check it out and lend support for JJ and SI!
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=511209

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 1:49 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7623 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks buddy!
Great logo!
I think we'll steal it.

Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey tribe, I need your wisdom. I cross posted this in general, but wanted you experts to see this.

Many of you know my struggles with DD18 and her NPD father.

DD18 exhibits many signs of NPD but it is confusing because her father has actively alienated her from me and projected his hatred of me onto her. Regardless, she has behaved horribly to me on many occasions involving quite a bit of theft.

The last thefts sent me reeling because I had happily welcomed her back to my home (think prodigal son), helped her emotionally and financially and at 18 she intentionally stole from me, lied to me, blamed me and tried to play all kinds of emotionally abusive games with me.

As a consequence, I asked her to move out. That killed me as she had no where to go and landed at her NPD dad's home with his live in GF. GF has no boundaries and is selfish and is actively working to install herself as DD18's mother.

DD18 has done maybe 3% of what I asked her to do for restitution and has done none of the emotional work of trying to rebuild trust or a relationship with me. In her mind I am the villian and the bad guy.

Just received a text from NPD.

I would like that DD18 stay with you 1 weekend a month at least. Prefer it to be the same one each month. Thoughts about that?

Yeah I have thought about that. NO WAY

Guess living with the kid he so royally used to get back at me isn't turning out so well with GF. LOL

However, due to the NPD I need to tred carefully in my response.

I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas.

Thanks!


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2358 | Registered: Jan 2010
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"As of right now, it is not possible."

Short, emotion-less, and to the point.
It leaves the door open for DD to get right, but as of right now...no.


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brilliant JJ! Thanks


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2358 | Registered: Jan 2010
Edith
♀ Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone. It has been awhile since I have written but have been struggling lately.

I don't know if FWH is N or not, though he fits some of the criteria. The big issue is lying. He has lied for his entire life, big things, small things, everything. I knew about it before M, tolerated it to my detriment.

So after his A almost 4 years ago, I said he must stop lying. Realistically, my IC told me he probably CANNOT stop it after a lifetime of this behavior (he is 50). But I certainly cannot continue to live this way.

So Monday night I caught him in a lie. Red handed. I realized that my "overlooking" his lies was the result of his predictable rages when confronted. Monday was no different. He clung to the absurdity of the lie, which was irrefutible. I finally said I want a D. He threw his ring, screamed obscenities in my face and stormed out of the house.

Later, he came back contrite, said that he must have "forgotten" that he had done this thing he earlier claimed he did not. Apologized. Has been over the top sweet and apologetic.

I realize this is the pattern. I realize that his rage is his attempt (successful!) to control me. I realize I cannot trust a liar.

Usually he is sweet and loving. But he even carries this too far, saying "I love you" like 100 times a day. Once he admitted to me, after I asked, that he does that so he can hear me say it back.

A few months ago, he told me that I have a skinny neck, and that he could snap it. Now he denies that he said that. I don't understand why or how anyone could say that to someone they love.

He tells me things like he is nothing without me. Like he does not have anyone but me.

I am overwhelmed with grief. The truth is I hate my life, I cannot stand the thought of facing another day. I feel guilty for still carrying the pain of his A. I feel guilty for having tolerated his lies all these years (20). I work at home alone and have no friends or family. I have two grown kids, but I cannot burden them with this ugliness.

I am about to become a grandmother and should feel joy, but I feel more like I am just waiting to die. I am out of strength, I am out of courage and I am feeling so terrible about myself.

I think I know what the advice will be, but I just do not feel strong enough to do this. My pain is indescribable. I am praying for healing for all of us.

E.

[This message edited by Edith at 11:41 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 280 | Registered: Feb 2013
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Edith. I am so sorry for your pain and despair. I know of what you speak and it is horrible.

Since you mentioned praying, I will mention that the Lord will not burden you with more than you can bear. I trust in this. Do you?

I too, really struggled and still struggle with forgiveness. By that I mean forgiving myself.

I try to treat myself as gently as I would treat someone else (which is hard). I work hard at everything I do. It is a reliable character trait (actually got unhealthy with the NPD...I was too reliable and tolerated the untolerable for way to long)

What I had to come to grips with was the idea that I did the best I could with what I knew at that time.

Now that I know better, I make different choices.

I hope that helps you.

Also, try not to let him and his choices steal anymore of your time. He is not worth it. Your grandbaby deserves all of you, don't you think?

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 11:56 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2358 | Registered: Jan 2010
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chrysalis123,
I just wanted to offer my support to your very difficult situation. But I do believe you are doing the right thing by holding your bottom lines with your dd. If you hope to have any type of healthy relationship with her in the future, this is what you must do.

I think since she is still young, you still have hope. And this *could* be juvenile acting out. (hopefully) All the more important for you to hold your bottom line.

It seems one of the commonalities with NPD's is that they rarely, if ever suffered consequences for their bad behavior. They either simply got away with the bad things they did, or were constantly "rescued" by enabling parents.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 12:18 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7925 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Edith)))
Sending strengthening prayers.
We got your back.

Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After a long hiatus, I am back. I think I have finally accepted that my H is NPD. We just decided tonight that we are getting D'd. The background is that he wants to go back to MC; I said not until he gets into IC or group therapy. He refused both, saying that he doesn't see how working on himself will help our M. (Because don't cha know, it's the MARRIAGE's fault, not his). Anyway, I said "does this mean we're getting D'd?" He said "yes, since you won't (insert blameshifting phrase here)." So I told him I would call my L tomorrow. I already emailed my L tonight. I am relieved.

My reason for this post is to let you know that I will be needing lots of support as I navigate through this D with him. I am praying for a quick and painless D (one can hope, right?), but I know this is not likely. I already have a few phrases (gleaned from this thread) at the ready:
"I'm sorry you feel that way."
"It's hard when your actions have consequences."
NC = no new hurts
Kids and finances only.

Thanks, and hugs to everyone who has been through the hell of being M to an NPD.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 12:58 AM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((nandn))) We are here for you.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7623 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
WoundedOpus
♀ Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 5:44 AM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edith, have you looked into BPD traits for your WH? I was leaning that way with mine, but now I'm back to NPD. Your comments about him saying I love you to hear it back (needing constant confirmation of your love), him saying he's nothing without you, that he doesn't have anyone but you....I'm realizing that this sort of behavior is more common with BPD. NP's are more apt to go from emotionally dead to rage, little in between, and they are less likely to say these things, as they rarely care if you love them, much less would they want to ever seem needy. Just my thoughts. I thought I had some things all figured out, and as bad as a diagnosis of BPD would be, NPD to me is even worse (personally).

So sorry you're having to deal with any of this, the constant lying is more than most people could ever take!


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

ďI don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
Edith
♀ Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your prayers Chrysalis. I thought I had shielded my heart, but it is obvious to me that I am not capable of that. Something for me to work on I think. The kindness in this thread is wonderful.

@jjct, thank you, and good luck with the chess match! Hoping to see Ser in a dress...

Thank you WoundedOpus. Very insightful comments, and I agree that he fits many of the traits of BPD. Right after his A, he was actually diagnosed as bipolar, started on meds which threw him in a tailspin. He promptly stopped them. I am convinced he has some personality disorder, just seems to be a mix of several, KWIM?

N and N, I am praying for you to find the path to peace. Praying for us all.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 280 | Registered: Feb 2013
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, wounded and Edith. I will keep you updated.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, round #1:

We just decided that we were getting D'd last night.

Tonight, he says that he wants to talk about Christmas vacation bc he wants to take the kids to visit his parents (2000 miles away). He first says that of course I will get them for Christmas, but he wants to take them for a week starting a few days after Christmas.

I filed for D in June, but I have postponed our court date a couple of times bc we were "reconciling." He still has not given my L his pay stub and we have not negotiated SS/CS/parenting plan, etc. Can I use the fact that he wants to take the kids to see his parents as a bargaining chip to get some of what I want? My offer for the parenting plan was EOW for him (I'm a SAHM). He said that wouldn't be enough, but I have no idea how much he is going to ask for. He is a L, so I know he will use all the tricks he can. I sent an email to my L tonight, but would appreciate advice on how to handle an NPD in this situation. Thank you.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

N&N,
There is NO F'ing WAY IN HELL I would let him take the kids for Christmas. No! No! No!

And "bargaining" with an NPD? Forget it. Doesn't work. They want, want, want. And maybe if there are some bread crumbs left, you can have them.

Rule #1 when divorcing an NPD
Do not assume and proceed as if you are dealing with a normal or rational person, because you are NOT.

Rule #2 when divorcing an NPD
Do not make the mistake of thinking, "Oh he would never..." because he WILL and worse than you ever imagined.

Rule #3 when divorcing an NPD
Document everything.

Rule #4 when divorcing an NPD
Let your lawyer do their job. Don't negotiate yourself. That's why you're paying a lawyer.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7925 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
fight4respect
♀ New Member
Member # 40595
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by fight4respect at 10:56 AM, November 1st (Friday)]


* I used to listen to people and trust they would act upon their word. Now I listen to people, and observe if they will act upon their word *

Posts: 10 | Registered: Sep 2013
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, sad, for the rules. I will keep those in mind as I go through this process.

I am starting to psych myself out, bc I just realized that I not only have one NPD to deal with, but TWO - H and his mother that he is enmeshed with. She hates me. The morning after we decided to get D'd, he took his starbucks coffeemaker that she gave him to his condo (he's had the condo since I filed in June, but hasn't lived there yet). I thought it was strange. Now he is asking to go home to see his mommy for Christmas with the kids. I'm sure he is plotting with her. Added to that is the fact that he is a $600/hr big-city lawyer (not family law, though) with big-city lawyer friends. Sometimes it is overwhelming.

I'm no slouch (graduate degree, LOTS of support), but somedays it just feels like David and Goliath (oh wait, that turned out well for the underdog, didn't it?)


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
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