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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 12
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe!

Having a much better day today. Snow day!! Felt like a kid, playing in the snow with my son, my friend and the dogs. Cooked a nice lunch for everyone. I realized something today, it feels like home. I feel like I have a home, a sanctuary. Having these men around me now, the honesty of the love for me and me for them is so healing. They care about me and it shows. I don't have to turn it inside out to see if there is something there. When it is real it just shows.

A bit of hoovering today but very weak, I liken it more to a dust buster, not much power. I love when I feel strong. He emailed, "It is cold and snowing why don't you come over and cuddle".

Seriously??? I wanted to reply that I had 4 dogs to cuddle with and they have love and loyalty and devotion but I did not. It seems to be getting easier to ignore.

Jethro Tull was coming from my home last night, Locomotive Breath, Bouree and lots of of other songs, things I have never even attempted to play. It just flowed out of me. I have not touched my flute in almost 2 years, it was amazing.

It was reclaiming a part of me, a part that fills my soul. Playing music with my friend has always been one of the most joyful experiences for me.

I got totally absorbed, no anxiety, just lost in the music, the feeling of it.

Tonight I have hope.

Tonight we will play music again

Wishing some joy to all of you. The pure joy of friendship without a cost.

Can


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013

attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1096 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
FindMyselfAgain
♀ Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I am ready to accept that I belong here. I don't want to (no offense to all of you), it's just me struggling to accept the reality that I have been denying for a very long time.

I have a post in general. And I will be coming back to SI in a much more active role to accept the support that is so graciously offered. I have a sense that this tribe is where I belong.


DDay: October 7, 2011

Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
phmh
♀ Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

None of us wanted to be here.

I read your post in general. I know you can do it.

There are a lot of self-help books that, while they can't completely replace therapy, can really help when you can't afford to go to IC. We can help you with that.

You sound so strong -- I know you can do it.

(((FindMyselfAgain)))

And can -- so great to read this update. You've made HUGE progress in such a short period of time. Great job!!!


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3101 | Registered: Dec 2011
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

K,

I got very good at him being a nonentity. I worked hard at cultivating a village to help raise my kids, they were the village idiots.

I love this!!

FindMyselfAgain,

Welcome. I am sorry that the Tribe grows, but confident that it is a wonderful place of acceptance and healing.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FindMyselfAgain,

Welcome. I understand not wanting to belong here.

I read your post in general also. Your words sound like mine, the same questions I asked myself. I fought it at first. I would occasionally read here back after dday #1, but always convinced myself I was overreacting.

Learn as much as you can about this, it helps. It helps you to be kinder and more accepting of yourself.

There are some very wise people here. Listen to them, they really know what they are speaking of.

Can


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013

attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1096 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to the place no one wants to belong. But those that do find sanity among the crazy.

You can do this. Therapy is great IF your therapist is experienced with NPD. If not, keep reading and posting and getting feedback. My best experience was kids therapist had dealt with narc parents, my therapist didn't . My best advice came from a forum for those of us dealing with narcissism.. I would take my laptop to my therapy sessions. Thank God my therapist has an open mind!! She helped me sift thru the narc forums responses.

Some how some way you will make it work for you. If you find yourself here with the courage to post-you'll make it.

Welcome new tribe members, I am very glad you found us.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Quakingaspen
♀ Member
Member # 41153
Suspicious  Posted: 8:37 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feeling very frustrated folks. My WH seems slightly more self-aware than some NPDs. Right after the last D-Day, he sent me an email with the subject "Narcissism", but said that although he doesn't think that the personality disorder pertains to him, he can definitely identify with the need for admiration, and the lack of empathy and saying the things he knows are appropriate, but not really feeling it. He said he didn't really consider the OP to be real people.

Over the course of our marriage, I have often found ways of giving him ideas of what to do to make things better, and he goes about doing them like a checklist (because he is so clueless), like if he checks the boxes off in a way that satisfies him, then I should have no reason to complain. Is this a common NPD thing? He would get angry if I suggested that he wasn't doing things the way he should, because wasn't he doing exactly what I told him to? So after this last DD, I have stopped. I sent him the four pillars of reconciliation, but otherwise have not advised him or given him direction. I'm really proud of that. At least now whatever comes from him really comes from him-ish. I know he's getting material from somewhere, but at least it isn't the double-betrayal of coming from myself.

However, now he's got his mom roped into things. ("I'm realizing I'm a really good manipulator." he says). She's giving him advice about what to say to the kids, and what to do to win me back. It is all really painful because it is literally like being wooed by a parrot. The older kids are as bothered by these gestures as I am, because they ring so false. He's lying to his mom about some of the things he's doing and letting her come to her own conclusions about other things and they are really wrong. I've considered calling her and telling her that if she is interested in having a relationship with me, let's cut out the middle guy, but I am sure I could not do that (yet) without sounding really sarcastic. I just want her to butt out of the relationship. WH is almost 40, and if he can't figure out how to have a relationship with his wife or his kids on his own, then he needs to deal with it.

Meanwhile what does he do during his first week of living on his own? Went to a concert last night and put pictures up on Facebook for the kids to see. Fabulous douchecanoe. (Does that count as cussing?)

I'm also having trouble finding an attorney I like. The ones I have spoken to so far are either really disorganized and inexperienced or put me off because of their attitude toward SAH parents.

Sorry, just feeling weighed down today, wishing I could fast-forward out of this, wishing some solutions would come easy instead of each step being a slog. At least I am still moving forward.


"You're going to catch a cold from the ice inside your soul. Don't come back for me. Who do you think you are?"

WS (him)-SA/NPD
D-Day: Too many to count. LAST time: 16 October 2013.
Separating on the road to brighter things.


Posts: 89 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: A little bit closer to Reality
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

QuakingAspen,

Oh, my. He actually said, there's nothing wrong with me, but I completely identify with all the hallmarks of the disorder??? How freaking NPD of him!!!

Please listen to your gut about finding an L that "fits." This person will be your buffer and expert. Make sure they are capable of being both. Keep looking.

Former SAHM here. BIG (((hugs))) for moving forward! You got this, domestic engineer!


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sam Vaknin, is a self aware narc. He has a blog that he writes about being a narc. Just because he is aware that he is mod- doesn't mean he's going to do something about it.

Keep your guard yp.


Hugs


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Quakingaspen
♀ Member
Member # 41153
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Caregiver and K. It is still so mind-boggling to me that basic consideration is so alien to him. I can't seem to shake the nightmares, last night's episode was particularly bad. I am decided on my course out, just need the artillery to do it.

The really sad thing is that I am qualified to have a very good job, just haven't been able to establish a career because we've moved so often for HIS career. Bloodsucker. And now I am in a holding pattern because I am moving closer to my parents this summer, so can't really get a relevant job here. I am looking for part-time and volunteer positions to at least get some more experience.

Today is a beautiful day and I am showing my girl what a SAHM does in a day. Later we're baking pumpkin muffins and putting together some freezer meals. Hooray for normalcy and fun!


"You're going to catch a cold from the ice inside your soul. Don't come back for me. Who do you think you are?"

WS (him)-SA/NPD
D-Day: Too many to count. LAST time: 16 October 2013.
Separating on the road to brighter things.


Posts: 89 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: A little bit closer to Reality
anewhaven
♀ Member
Member # 34246
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello, All,

I have been reading books on NPD that several of you have suggested - thank you - but I have a question that maybe someone here can explain.

A couple of the books say that if you are in a conversation with your NPD and he switches to rage, or intimidation, that you should reply: "I am not going to listen to that tone of voice" or "stop that", and if he doesn't, you should say "we can continue this conversation when you are calmer" and leave the room.

My question is: if your NPD is trying to deflect, or gas-light, or just get out of the conversation, won't he learn very quickly that all he has to do is get 'mean' and you will walk away, and he basically 'wins'? And there will never be a time when he will be 'calmer'? How do you ever finish the discussion or argument if there is never a time when he stays calm? Any thoughts?

Your help is always appreciated - this is a long, long road and it's so nice not to be alone.


Posts: 68 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: USA
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi anewhaven,

I don't know if I can answer your question in a helpful way. I learned to stop having conversations with the NPD. A conversation was NEVER helpful. There was nothing to chit chat about, and if I needed information, then I "needed" something, and that dynamic empowered him.

All conversations now (and there are very very few) have a different dynamic because I don't need anything. I literally act as if he is dead. I parent without input, I have a back up plan for if he doesn't show, CSE handles the support issues, I do Christmas gifts knowing that duplicates can be exchanged or regifted. He will take my kids places without communicating. He will be late and try to screw up the schedule.

I think you are very smart to recognize that your reactions will "train" him to behave in a way to get that reaction again.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All conversations now (and there are very very few) have a different dynamic because I don't need anything. I literally act as if he is dead. I parent without input, I have a back up plan for if he doesn't show, CSE handles the support issues, I do Christmas gifts knowing that duplicates can be exchanged or regifted. He will take my kids places without communicating. He will be late and try to screw up the schedule.

Amen.



Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've done what caregiver does. My youngest is 18, I have no reason to speak to him now.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to tell him a few things!


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is: if your NPD is trying to deflect, or gas-light, or just get out of the conversation, won't he learn very quickly that all he has to do is get 'mean' and you will walk away, and he basically 'wins'? And there will never be a time when he will be 'calmer'? How do you ever finish the discussion or argument if there is never a time when he stays calm? Any thoughts?

Any time you can avoid a conversation with an NPD (even a calm one) is a situation where YOU win.

It's never a "conversation" when it comes to an NPD. They are either manipulating information out of you or screaming and yelling at you in order to intimidate you. So the discussion or the argument is never "over". They usually say (yell) what they have to say and don't let you talk.

Impossible.

Think of trying to have a rational adult conversation with a toddler in the middle of a temper tantrum. Same thing.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's never a "conversation" when it comes to an NPD. They are either manipulating information out of you or screaming and yelling at you in order to intimidate you.

Yay, me! I was a good student. *waves at sadtoo!


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
anewhaven
♀ Member
Member # 34246
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies, but how do I avoid being a 'doormat'? Say he says something demeaning to me in a jokey way, and so I correct him, calmly and politely, and then he might reply with a 'meanish' tone - if I just walk away or ignore it, how do I avoid being a doormat?

Posts: 68 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: USA
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies, but how do I avoid being a 'doormat'? Say he says something demeaning to me in a jokey way, and so I correct him, calmly and politely, and then he might reply with a 'meanish' tone - if I just walk away or ignore it, how do I avoid being a doormat?

No matter what you do or say, you cannot change him.

Again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a normal conversation with an NPD. He could be telling you the sky is yellow with pink pokadots. And no matter how calmly and politely you correct him, he is going to come back at you with his "meanish" tone.

By ignoring or walking away from this conversation (or any other) doesn't make you a doormat. You are taking BACK some of the control you have lost in this relationship by DISENGAGING.

Every time you walk away and disengage, you take away his power to hurt you further.

Right now, he has you trained to stay in the "conversation" and listen to and tolerate his verbal abuse. You think you are defending yourself, but in reality the "conversation" is one sided because he is escalating. He doesn't hear anything you say. Anything that comes out of your mouth is to him an interruption. So his attack becomes more nasty and more fierce.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just saw this in General:

Detach

Don't
Ever
Try
And
Change
Him


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
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