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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP,

Round of golf with some mates with drinks and dinner afterwards? What do you like to do that you don't get to do often?


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if I were you I might consider touching base with Wonder Boy. I've heard he's a golfer also. I think he's moving to Washington State next week. I've heard there are some beautiful golf course is there.

I also heard that they're going to roll out a2 pound joint sometime next week.

coincidence?

wouldn't hurt to ask!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WHAT WHAT?!! Did I hear my name?

Yes, absolutely. Golf, Washington, beer. cough cough on the other thing.

But you don't want to mix the golf with the other thing....this can happen:

I roll out at 5 a.m. tomorrow (i hope)

[This message edited by wonderboy at 2:09 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
ChesterChump
♂ New Member
Member # 38094
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys,

These Betrayed Men threads have been invaluable to me, thanks to the newcomers
for sharing and to the old-timers for taking the time to offer help when they
undoubtedly could be spending it elsewhere.

I have a practical question. Pre-A I was pretty much completely hands-off when it came to household finances and my WW's discretionary spending (she's a SAHM with no income). Post-dday I've completely taken over all of the finances (previously I just handled investments) and now know pretty much where every penny goes.

My question is how do you allow your WW some measure of discretionary spending without establishing a sort of parent/child dynamic with what's essentially allowance? For example, one of my WW's "hobbies" is ingratiating herself to others through gift giving. Nothing really extravagant, lots of flowers, cards, gifts certificates for dinner out when a simple thank you would be more appropriate, etc. It's not the money that's the issue but that, for obvious reasons, I don't want to support or implicitly condone this unhealthy behavior.


Posts: 26 | Registered: Jan 2013
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If adrenaline is an option go skydiving, rip some paintball, convince the wife to come and put her on the other team lol, skeet shooting. Any beer related activity works as well


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
slater13
♂ Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went skydiving on my 30th. Great time!


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

" Women have A for emotional reasons and men have A for the sex "

That's nice. I guess the thrice weekly pounding he gave her was just a nice bonus.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"My question is how do you allow your WW some measure of discretionary spending without establishing a sort of parent/child dynamic with what's essentially allowance?"

CC - read your profile. Sorry you ended up here.

Don't feel bad about the parent/child dynamic. You didn't ask for this to happen. Ever get the feeling that instead of being married to a mature wife, you are raising another selfish, impulsive teenager?

Dole out the money according to the maturity or lack of it she shows.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

discretionary spending

IMO the key would is "discretionary," and should only apply to people who can show DISCRETION. Not sure your ww is worthy that. Having an A is a complete absence of discretion. Everything comes through me until I'm comfortable with her making some decisions that have any impact on the family again. Finances impact the whole family, so she's SOL.

I view her sucking posers dick as a "all privileges have been removed until further notice" type of a thing.

That might not work for you, but my WW has lost her allowance. Purchases are made with a card where I can view every purchase, no more of this ATM shit.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

30th birthday party

Vegas...play roulette, drink 2 dollar cocktails, Rio buffet, Steak and eggs at Barbary Coast, sit by the pool and enjoy the scenery.

Then make your wife sweat it out by repeating "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" every time she asks how your trip was.

At that point seems to be two enjoyable things wrapped into one.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with DefiledRage.

My wife texts me her whereabouts and comings and goings all day long. She's on a much shorter leash. And she hasn't complained about it, maybe because she realizes that those are the consequences for acting like a slutty 20-year old party girl for almost a year.
So I guess I'm now playing dad, in a sense. Not my choice, I wanted an adult partner, not a 5th child.

CC, if your wife can't be trusted with discretionary spending (and a few other things), then she simply can't be trusted. You have to do what you have to do. That's no reflection on you.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 4:32 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Vegas...play roulette, drink 2 dollar cocktails, Rio buffet, Steak and eggs at Barbary Coast, sit by the pool and enjoy the scenery.
Then make your wife sweat it out by repeating "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" every time she asks how your trip was.

At that point seems to be two enjoyable things wrapped into one.

I love this idea, if I had money for Vegas. LOVE it. Some of the other ideas are cool, thanks guys. I thought about skydiving, but I already did that about 6 years back. I actually thought about the paintball idea, too. We have a ton of really good fields up here in Northeastern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin. I'm going to go check out that movie "Elysium" at some point during the day, and develop some rough plans around that.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
ArableSands
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Member # 39830
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys. I hope you can help this fucked up betrayed husband and dad of two beautiful little kids (6 & 4) make some sense of what the hell is going on.

DDay was nearly 4 weeks ago. Busted her by accidentally seeing text on her iPhone. Her cheating was "limited" (ha!) to making out and heavy petting three times over three months with a 61 yr old friend who was her emotional confidante. Less than a dozen sexting incidents mostly early on, when it started in April. W, who is a beautiful 35 year old woman, said she was attracted to him emotionally because he was safe, and a lot like her dad. NC was done, I feel there is no threat from him, he was just convenient and there and, once again, safe. No relationship or love there, other than him being her friend and support when she needed it.

March of this year she read me the riot act. "Change or we're going to separate." So I changed. I snapped out of my controlling behaviours that have been developing for the past 4-5 years and feel more like the real me than I have since then. Open, transparent, listening, treated her with respect. I own this shit, for sure. My fault. No excuses.

Of course we missed each other by about 4 weeks it seems. I was opened up by April and she had closed off by then, and started the sexting with her father figure. This goes on for months until early July, when I see a text on her iPhone that incriminates completely. The one plus is that it also aligns with her story that the "relationship" was wrapping up. It was headed away from what they were doing. No idea if it wouldn't have bounced back. Hard to say.

She takes 100% of the ownership for the cheating. She said, by way of explanation, not excuse, that she did that because she wanted the emotional escape but she didn't want to lose me. She was afraid if she talked to me about the Big Problems we've been having in the marriage, particularly about my depression last November when I briefly (!) ideated suicide, I'd react really badly, everything would blow up and we'd be done. Or I'd get depressed again and we'd be done.

So I bust her, and she is sobbing and begging that we don't D. For 2 weeks I stew and lash out and cry and scream and don't sleep or eat, and for 2 weeks she does everything I ask. And then I commit finally to MC, and working things out.

A few days prior, she has a talk with her support person, the wife of a close cousin (we'll call her T). T tells her that while there was no cheating, she knows what my wife went through with my controlling with her own husband, so T counsels my wife to take that back and stand her ground on those things that have to do with me trying to control my wife (which is fine). On the same note, she gave my wife hell for cheating, and also mentioned her choice of cheating partner was gross. (Which made me feel better) My wife even pointed out that there was no intention on her part to go past kissing and petting to actual sex, because she really didn't want to see him naked. "He's an old man" as she put it.

So after the first two weeks, she becomes angry, perhaps from the 5 years of my bullshit dumped on her, or for whatever else I don't know. But it definitely interferes with what i can see of her remorse. She stops texting me several times a day to make me feel better, as she's focusing on work, in which I admit she is far behind because she essentially took two weeks off to minister to my anger and threats of D.

Since then we've seen MC once, and will again next week. Then the week of Aug 11 she takes off with our kids to visit her family on the East Coast in the U.S. for a week. This will let her breathe and catch up on sleep as family will take care of the kids. Also, she'll spend time talking to T. I'm just worried T might put something into her head that won't help us.

I'm concerned that the trip will fuel a desire for separation, this early in the process. She tells me she is 100% committed to MC, and quote, "I really want this to work." But of course I'm worried as fuck. I'm sensing distance from her, anger, and we stopped having sex about a week or so ago, when the anger appeared. She's still affectionate, but less so.

I have committed to MC and that means vowing to put myself on the line, being vulnerable YET AGAIN to be completely crushed, and I am SO worried that she'll suddenly decide she's done and I am not sure I could survive that. I promised not to bring up D when the MC asked us to at the end of the first MC session. It was my only hammer to use on my wife.

What do you guys see? What should I do? And how to do come home to an empty house for seven days? I have no other support here, as my only surviving family member is very elderly and has dementia.


Posts: 224 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Vancouver, Canada
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Southern Wisconsin

Dude, do a float trip up in the Wisconsin Dells. Have an overnighter with the mates up there - drink beer and float down the river.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Arable,

But of course I'm worried as fuck

Then that's your problem right there. Until you are willing to lose the marriage, you can't save the marriage. Just saying mate. You didn't cause it, you can't change it, and you can't control it. You must be one powerful dude that you made your wife decide to seek validation from her daddy figure. Really? You made her? Or was there something already really fucked up in her, waiting for the right excuse to take over?

Quit worrying. Let her worry about how she's going to keep someone as awesome as you.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi A-Sands,

welcome.

to paraphrase what I have read here from another veteran...==> You cannot change her. You can not control her. Believe me I have tried to do that and still do even though I rationally know it is a waste of energy and time. Many people will stay and do nothing in a relationship living in fear. A big reason all who have gone through affairs with emotional connections involved is that we married women who have very little courage. And they see fear where it should not exist. They choose the comfort of us, our good behaviors.. however, they cannot tell us what they need effectively, so it must be done in secret. If your WW comes from a family that condones or even rewards secrecy then you've got some more cards stacked against you. My WW is paralyzed when it comes to communicating things that are uncomfortable. She draws on some crap magical thinking that if I were the 'one' or if the marriage were 'right' then she would not have to specifically state and advocate for her wants and needs. This fear of hers goes way back and is deeply ingrained in her. Therefore, us guys must be the ones with the courage, because that is all WE can control. We can only control us and our efforts. To manage our feelings, our reactions, our initiating good conflict, etc.

About that friend, "T": again, you can not control that issue. All you can say is that you want people in your lives that support marriage and support the hard work necessary to get through tough times. Many people encourage the easy way out, or inspire resentment under the guise of support. I can imagine your WW has heard the phrase, "don't forget how much he hurt you first."

Finally, and I am by no means speaking from a position of success in this area, but your statement of fearing that she is done tells me you really need to focus on you. ATS is a guy here whose suggests that you can only save a marriage if you are willing to give it up.

--Jack


ETA: ok, so maybe it's Tred that says it and not ATS. or both. or maybe it is now just a universal truth.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 5:36 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AS:

If it has a stripe and smells like a skunk...its a skunk. 61 yr old males do not befriend 35 yr old women to be emotional confidants. That man is a skunk. You ultimately have to make the decision whether to believe her shit on the extend of what went on between them, but dude as an outside party, that shit smells to high heaven. I don't know anyone outside of middle school that stops intimate encounters at making out and heavy petting. You might not want to hear that, but you need to at least consider it.

she did that because she wanted the emotional escape but she didn't want to lose me
Can't count how many times I've heard that, its not an explanation, in her mind it is the excuse. It is wayward justification at its finest.

Is T a licensed therapist? I would be worried too. Shes already providing some justification to your ww by pointing out the controlling aspect of your relationship. That is a marriage problem, NOT and infidelity problem. And those two things are completely separate things. If T was my MC she would be fired!

Sorry AS if that comes off all a little harsh. But honestly I could hear NO NO NO roaring in my head as I was reading your post.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 5:43 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Her cheating was "limited" (ha!) to making out and heavy petting three times over three months with a 61 yr old friend who was her emotional confidante. Less than a dozen sexting incidents mostly early on, when it started in April.

I debated whether to respond to this, and the thought of actually doing so now makes me cringe a bit because I don't want to contribute to anyone's pain. But I feel compelled to do so, so here goes.

Arable, first of all glad you found us even if I regret the circumstances that got you here. Your D Day just happened, so you are probably still somewhat in the shock phase. But you should know that waywards are notorious for minimizing their affairs and for what's known as "trickle truth", or TT. The latter is when the grisly facts of the affair sort of come out piecemeal, over weeks, months, or in some cases, years/decades. The former is when they try to downplay the facts, or length of the affair.

3 makeout sessions and less than 12 sexting incidents over a 90 day period strikes me as unusually tame, as affairs go. This assumes that they had the opportunity to do more, which might not be the case. That may be all there is to it, and I really hope that turns out to be the case. But that comes out to little more than one contact a week, which is not much in light of the obsessive and euphoric behavior that characterizes most affairs. Affairs are often more hedonistic than the marital relationship because they are built on an escapist fantasy, where rules don't apply and real life doesn't get in the way.

But waywards don't tend to volunteer a lot of details, especially the painful ones that they think might cost them their marriage, without a lot of prompting and pressure. They often won't admit one thing more than the BS can prove.

I say this only because, after the initial shock wears off, BS's often start analyzing their WS's stories and realizing that many things don't add up or pass the smell test. This could happen to you and I don't want you to be surprised when it happens. Although my wife otherwise was doing everything a WW should do to begin recovery - immediate no contact, counseling, expressing remorse, etc. - I had a feeling that there was more to her story. Finally, one night about 90 days in she confessed all of the grisly details under the threat of a lie detector test. Including things that she had previously adamantly denied.

Some guys don't want to know the details, and if that's your case, then disregard what I'm saying. But to me knowledge is power, and I had to know. If you are like me, I encourage you to dig hard for the full story sooner rather than later. Don't accept things that, under the circumstances, come off as too-good-to-be-true or a best case scenario. It will accelerate your healing in the long run.

As for MC, it's a good move. I'd insist on making it a priority. Your WW, and probably the marriage itself, is too screwed up to navigate this thing without the help of a third-party. I know a couple IRL (in real life) who managed it, but that's not my recommendation.

Best wishes.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Her cheating was "limited" (ha!) to making out and heavy petting three times over three months

Just my opinion here, but this is a lie. Sexting, carrying on an EA behind your back, but they stop at making out? Bullshit. I'm guessing as much as you want to believe this...you know it isn't true either.

Fuck T.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, July 31st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FYI,

You won't see me round these parts for a bit. I am finally going home! Rolling out at 5:00 A.M. tomorrow for the drive from Phoenix to Washington (through Vegas...hmmm).

Anyway, lates! Wish me luck. And if any of you bastards are down here in Phoenix, I could use some help tonight packing up the rest of my shit. I'll provide the beer.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
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