Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. I have to process it all first. But let me add, regarding the limits of the cheating: the evidence I saw aligned with her story. My gut isn't screaming at me like it was between April and June. And my WW is truly a shit liar. Truly.
safe journey WB!
Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."
Chester, welcome. If an allowance is really the way you want to go, fine. Maybe set it to comparable daycare rates? IDK. Otherwise she needs to own her shit and spend responsibly. Maybe run every purchase by you first for a while.
AS, I remember one of your posts where SHE didn't know if MC would work or if she was even interested. Bro, she's playing you. I also suspect it went farther. Keeping you on edge keeps you from looking deeper into what occurred.
T needs to be out of this picture. She is not a friend of the marriage. Regardless of what the issues were before the A, they are moot now. At least until this is resolved.
Please read, research and implement the 180. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11
ETA just read your last post, to me, something seems off. Especially the defensiveness/anger. Just watch your back.
[This message edited by 5454real at 6:05 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]
My gut still thinks she's telling the truth, that she spilled it all on DDay. I'll keep a jaundiced eye out though.
Well, I might as well kick that hornets nest tonight and get it over with.
your post pains me to the core. what everyone else said above, here are a few short responses:
Her cheating was "limited" (ha!) to making out and heavy petting three times over three months
lies! minimisation. you're in for TT. I pray and hope I am wrong, I know I am not.
there was no intention on her part to go past kissing and petting to actual sex
after the first two weeks, she becomes angry, perhaps from the 5 years of my bullshit dumped on her
blameshifting; classic WS defence; and youre taking it, dont. stand your ground. nothing M related pre-A stuff till remorse, NC, transparency and some serious counseling on why she did what she did - I'd even say skip the MC till she starts owning her shitty choices and her A. period. no bullshit. you'll never be able to have peace or any R of any sort with someone who deceives you and continues to blameshift.
This will let her breathe and catch up on sleep
probably also catch up on her wayward behaviour; my W went for a trip 'to her family' and started her second bout of cheating there; away from my eyes.
WS's tend to want to "get away" from the BS because the AP/A itself is an addiction and they are going through withdrawals. The point of getting away is to continue contact with AP (away from the BS's prying eyes) or to continue some form of the A behaviour. How many times have we seen a BS tell of the WS who moved away or "needed some time" just to go on to have some quality time with the AP/continue contact or take the A underground. dont fall for her bullshit.
T might put something into her head that won't help us.
trip will fuel a desire for separation, this early in the process
WS's thrive on fear and desperation. they will control the fuck out of you if you show them that they can control you. I was manipulated mercilessly by my 'sweet, pure' W for months, if not years, even post-DDay when I couldnt believe the horrors she was capable of. I know you love your W, we all do/did. SHE should want this to work, SHE should be the one fearing the outcome for HER actions. Its called being adults; everything has consequences.
"I really want this to work." &
I'm sensing distance from her, anger, and we stopped having sex
clearly a case of actions not matching words. hold the bar high and stop jumping through hoops yourself. you can ONLY work with her when her words and actions start matching up.
It was my only hammer to use on my wife.
there is nothing you can/will do that will change her or fix her, that is all on her to own (DETACH - Dont Even Try And Change Her)
And how to do come home to an empty house for seven days? I have no other support here
ATS is a guy here whose suggests that you can only save a marriage if you are willing to give it up
Finally, one night about 90 days in she confessed
AS}}}}} sorry but welcome to the best club no one wanted to be a part of.
I do have one sure fire method of verification, but I want to save it, to give MC a chance first. And as I said before, my WW really truly is a shit liar. The second she was busted, she babbled and kept talking, not once changing her story. Nothing has changed since DDay.
I'll remain vigilant. But I'm going to trust my gut...the last time I didn't, cheating happened right under my nose.
Sands - this part made me uncomfortable for you:
I have committed to MC and that means vowing to put myself on the line, being vulnerable YET AGAIN to be completely crushed, and I am SO worried that she'll suddenly decide she's done and I am not sure I could survive that.
That's why the guys are telling you to be willing to lose it - to get brave.
It is that fear that is allowing you to be manipulated re:
I promised not to bring up D when the MC asked us to at the end of the first MC session. It was my only hammer to use on my wife.
I understand fear, and I understand being manipulated.
Be strong. I believe women are hard-wired to respond to that.
Conquer it, master it, kick its ass.
It confuses me. If D-talk is your hammer - yet you fear it from her - it's her hammer too.
Everyone has already given you some great advice. I don't have much to add.
I hope that you are right but it seems way too convenient that it ended at 'heavy petting' with that much emotional connection. You can bet your ass POSER was looking to score and push that line. Not sure why she would stop there if she was able to get herself to that point. I like the fact that you are trusting your instincts. Just stay vigilant.
As many have already told you. DETACH. the only thing you control is yourself. Let go of the M and the outcome. This sucks but you will be ok one way or another.
Personally I'd love a week home alone. Make it my birthday and I'd be in heaven. Maybe you could ask FP if you could crash his party?
I hope that you are right but it seems way too convenient that it ended at 'heavy petting' with that much emotional connection. You can bet your ass POSER was looking to score and push that line. Not sure why she would stop there if she was able to get herself to that point.
Oddly, this fits her personality, stopping before that line. She's always been a bit strange that way. Even while the cheating was going on, she was trying to find the guy a girlfriend, and I saw the attempts. As far as the douchebag goes, he's a 61 year old perpetual milquetoast bachelor who doesn't have an aggressive, initiating bone in his body. He's a hopeless mess around women, even at that age. Like I said, WW knew he was "safe".
She's owned the cheating 100% (have you guys noticed I do NOT call it an "affair"? It's too soft a word for too painful an act), and admits to being relieved that it's over. Interestingly, I just briefly 180ed my wife while I was typing this, and her response was near instant. "Is everything okay?" "Yes, it's fine." A hug and a kiss from her before she left to attend a meeting with co-workers. This time the hug and kiss felt genuine. Ah ha!
Thanks guys. I just want to add that while I appreciate your protectiveness of me, I really don't think she fucked the guy. She was in fantasyland, and her story and the evidence around it has been consistent about how she really wasn't interested in him physically. Seeing him naked would've burst her bubble. Or so my gut tells me.
Her attitude of busting you for pre-A behaviour and that anger and holding off remorse are sending me bright warning signals. Hopefully I'm wrong. Consistent actions which match her words are the only gauge you have and proving that takes months, not weeks. Vigilance, don't give up snooping. Try checking up on her out of the blue, be unpredictable.
POSERs don't need to be aggressively chasing, we've found out through our collective here that WWs (contrary to popular cultural myths) tend to be as aggressive as men, if not more, on getting physical. It takes a switch in their heads (the one they switched off for us once we became routine and boring; I.e their husbands) to become the initiator/chaser or seducer. Sorry you have to hear this, not casting aspersions, just giving you a general consensus of betrayed Menz. Oh, and if I haven't said it enough; they lie. A Lot. It would be an exception for a WW to be forthright about the A on the first DDay. Something to do with shame. I would've thought otherwise if she had not been busted and had confessed.
I know WS's lie, but as I've said before, she really sucks at lying. Really sucks. Bad enough it's laughable. And the evidence supports her story. I guess my particular WW is an outlier on the bell curve of Bad Behaviour.
But thank you for watching my back. You guys are great.
For me, it wasn't even so much finding out new information, it was just that it took a while after DDAY for my brain to upgrade it's bullshit sniffing technology to the latest model. After about a month, my brain was constantly running a program in the recesses of my brain that was comparing one tidbit of 'fact' against another and telling me when she didn't make any sense. For me on many things my brain called bullshit before my gut did.
Again, I really hope it's not the case for you. I don't doubt that it's possible for it to stop at that point, before it reaches sexual-PA stage, us guys here on basically just playing the odds.
One last thing on the topic of the "Did she or didn't she?" sexual aspect:
She was in fantasyland, and her story and the evidence around it has been consistent about how she really wasn't interested in him physically. Seeing him naked would've burst her bubble. Or so my gut tells me.
I don't doubt that could be true. Maybe she found him absolutely repulsive sexually....but that could mean that if sexual activity DID occur, she would be absolutely disgusted with herself in that area in particular, no? If she thought he was gross, old, whatever, and still (subconsciously) had sex with him in exchange for some validation, I can only imagine how shameful that'd feel....and for many WWs, the drive to hide that shame is what fuels TT.
Even while the cheating was going on, she was trying to find the guy a girlfriend, and I saw the attempts.
Again, I really hope you have the complete story....I really do. The really shitty thing about TT is that once there is even one instance of it, EVERYTHING is thrown into question. It's a complete mindfuck. I'm almost at the point with my own situation where I want to say Polygraph or D, take your pick. But you can't throw that down unless you mean it, and I don't think I'm there (yet).
Use the poly, by all means, to get a confession out. But if its come to that, you're probably better off not bothering to try and R anyway. Remorseless waywards only recover enough to do it again later or to become dry adulterers for life, take yer pick.
Poly's are overrated and not entirely accurate.
Their only real use in A related instances is to freak a lying wayward into admitting shit they wouldn't otherwise, that too usually BEFORE the poly happens.
Use the poly, by all means, to get a confession out.
But if its come to that, you're probably better off not bothering to try and R anyway.
Remorseless waywards only recover enough to do it again later or to become dry adulterers for life, take yer pick.
I'll go back to my essential thread killing duties.