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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See? You guys thought I was shitting the newbie a thread or two ago? Can't remember which one

I believed you Tred, but then again I was the newbie. I still owe you that Bud Light.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
joeinfl
♂ New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A round of drinks for my new friends anytime! Thanks for being such a goo resource. I never imagined this could happen to me, and it's taking time to sink in. I have always been self confident (almost cocky), in great shape, have a great job, etc.. The thought of my wife stepping out on me with some loser that is inferior to me in every way has shaken me to my core. If the guy was a Brad Pitt or tycoon or even remotley had his s@@t together this would be a little easier to deal with. I know it's wrong but my initial thought is how much do I suck that she would risk her charmed life with 3 young kids for this loser!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Joe,

It might not seem like it right now, but this is the wrong question:

how much do I suck that she would risk her charmed life with 3 young kids for this loser

It should be:

how much does she suck that she would risk her charmed life with 3 young kids for this loser

Just a matter of perspective. I know our self esteem gets shattered by this. Mine certainly has.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thought of my wife stepping out on me with some loser that is inferior to me in every way has shaken me to my core. If the guy was a Brad Pitt or tycoon or even remotley had his s@@t together this would be a little easier to deal with. I know it's wrong but my initial thought is how much do I suck that she would risk her charmed life with 3 young kids for this loser!

We understand. You know that for sure. We all know how hard this crap is. For what it's worth, personally I don't think there is an *easier to deal with* scenario. Betrayal is betrayal.

There are some on here that have had their wives stop at making out, have a drunken ONS, or long term affairs with hundreds of sexual encounters. Regardless of the circumstances we all tend to feel about the same - really shitty (some longer than others). I think it has to do with the *bargaining* stage of grieving the loss of your M and your blushing beautiful bride.

My WW recently revealed that the sex with POSER was *mediocre*. How you take that? On one hand, I'm *pleased* that it wasn't the best ever kind of sex, but one the other hand why cause so much devastation for *mediocre*? Point is that there is nothing she can describe about her A that is going to make it *easier* for me. I'm just not going to *like* any circumstance and I quickly tried to get my mind onto something more useful than focusing on the *mediocre* statement.

You are in good company here. There doesn't seem to be a single slice of society that isn't represented. Looks, money, success and all the trimmings doesn't guarantee much of anything. The truth is that you married a flawed women (as we all have). It has nothing to do with you. NOTHING.

Work on healing yourself. Figure out what you want moving forward. You have a huge advantage finding us so quickly. A lot of us made huge mistakes (meaning I made huge mistakes) for months to years trying to keep our M together without the right knowledge and support. You'll find both of those right here.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 9:13 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Later
I agree it is tough to deal with the level of commitment your wife is offering you right now. BUT it is a step in the right direction.

It took my wife about 16 months AFTER D-day to finally take responsibility for her actions. She reluctantly agreed to MC. It has a been a slow and very painful process, but things are changing. I would suggest giving MC a try for a couple months before you decide much of anything.

Thanks TC. One issue that I have personally is, despite thinking we need MC and she needs IC, I don't trust counselors. It seems that every counselor I have personally known got into the profession because they were screwed up themselves. Those individuals are the last people I would seek advice from, let alone interject them into an already screwed up M.

That's not to say that I don't believe there are some good ones, but how the hell does one find them? I can ask anyone for the name of a good plumber, but a counselor is a different matter. The information available online online about local counselors is not helpful.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later

You have some good points and I would agree that finding the *right* counselor is terribly important.

I have experience with two different MC. One was a thirty something gal who didn't really help much. It was early after D-day and my wife had no real intentions of opening up and discussing anything. She was still very much in an EA and a dry adulterer. BUT this MC was not assertive enough to make any difference for us.

I lost all confidence in MC at that point. I kept struggling with things until my WW broke NC last in February. I lost it, well almost. I started going to IC because I knew I wasn't in a good place. My IC is a psychiatrist and someone I knew professionally before so I had some comfort with him. The first MC was a counselor. My psychiatrist (I love being able to say that, NOT) recommended a MC psychologist and gave me a specific referral. The new MC psychologist is in his 50s and much more involved. So I have talked with a counselor, psychologist and psychiatrist and there are differences IMO.

Our new MC has been fantastic. He is firm and directed and hasn't taken crap from either of us. I had two IC sessions with him at first really as a means to interview him. He was assessing me, but I was assessing him as well. I asked him specifically about how he felt and dealt with infidelity. I asked if it had affected his life personally. He answered all of my questions without hesitation.

There are good MC out there. You might start with your FP or Internal Medicine doc if you have one. They may know of a good MC. If not, you'll just have to wing it. If you don't like what you find, then keep looking.

ETA - The one downfall is price. The counselor was $90/hour, psychologist $110/hour, and psychiatrist $170/hour. Your insurance may cover some services and not others.

Not saying that there aren't good counselor's out there. My experience is limited, but in my experience it has been a you get what you pay for thing. I'd love for my wife to go to the psychiatrist for some IC.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 9:50 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems that every counselor I have personally known got into the profession because they were screwed up themselves.
I tend to believe that everyone has issues, and if you find the right counselor that has worked through them (or is even just further ahead on a similar path as yours) it can be tremendously helpful. I mean look at the support in the wayward forum from the remorseful WS that have walked the path and worked through so much. They can empathize with the struggle and offer support, but they also are the first to call out any BS (not betrayed spouse) and hold the new WSs feet to the fire.


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder how large of a boat I could pay for before they begin to break through my wife's NPD(?) defenses.

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the guy was a Brad Pitt or tycoon or even remotley had his s@@t together this would be a little easier to deal with.

Joe, there aren't too many winners out there who want to screw other men's wives. It's a pride and standards thing - most men with self-respect prefer finding their own woman. I can't speak for everyone but I think the men on this thread at least prefer something a little better than someone else's leftovers.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's not to say that I don't believe there are some good ones, but how the hell does one find them?

Later, I recommend contacting your local District Attorney's office. They should have people in that office who routinely work with therapists and refer victims of crime to them. I asked a friend in our local D.A.'s office, and he referred us to MC #2. She has been everything he said she was and more. Should have gone to him before hiring MC #1.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I recommend contacting your local District Attorney's office

It is kinda funny how I recommended talking to your MD about it and you recommended talking to the DA office. Is there such a thing as professional projection?

In all seriousness, that's one of the reasons I get so much out of this thread. There is so much experience and wisdom just a few keystrokes away.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Joe, welcome to the club no one ever wanted to join.

A lot of solid guys here who lived many variations on the main idea. A lot of perspectives and good advice. Friday PM is usually micro brew central.

Sal- Yeah the MC thing just really rubbed me the wrong way. We are both in IC and I like that. I am just a little gun shy because of my past experiences.

My W seems reluctant as well. I mean MC is to heal the M not destroy it. I had not been that close to thinking D since Dday.

As far as the thinking about the OM and how much of loser they are. The thought that helps is that I picture a loser who can't get women on his own so he has to prey on the weak and vulnerable ones. He does this because he is not Brad Pitt and has nothing to offer. So he lies, rigs the game and tells the vulnerable what they want to hear even though he doesn't believe it. It is a means to a very specific end.

Those without character cheat the system because they know they can't win playing by the rules.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 11:28 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A round of drinks for my new friends anytime! Thanks for being such a goo resource. I never imagined this could happen to me, and it's taking time to sink in. I have always been self confident (almost cocky), in great shape, have a great job, etc.. The thought of my wife stepping out on me with some loser that is inferior to me in every way has shaken me to my core. If the guy was a Brad Pitt or tycoon or even remotley had his s@@t together this would be a little easier to deal with. I know it's wrong but my initial thought is how much do I suck that she would risk her charmed life with 3 young kids for this loser!

I'm going to pile on here and I went to lengths about this a few pages back.
When I saw and confronted OM I was aghast! He was a coward, a loser, a drug abuser. His license was suspended. He rented one bedroom in a house. He was a tennis instructor and never won a competition. He pissed his pants when we met. I keep bringing that up because it was redemption in a way.
I said to WW I don't know what's more embarrassing.... You fucking someone else or you fucking THAT.
I said I could understand if it was like Channing Tatum, but that slob?!
He payed attention to me. He said nice things blah blah blah
Yeah of course he did honey, of course he did. I'm sure he meant it.
And even then who is it a crime of opportunity for... Him or her
She seeks validation and he seeks sex or a mix of both to certain degrees. They are both broken. They both oblige each other. They already crossed the lines so nothing is taboo or in some sick way they get off on it.
No strings attached. No commitment. Everything they do is a secret.
Doesn't matter that you show your love to her everyday. Pay bills, mortgage, care for the kids, pay her hair and nail appointments, buy groceries, pay for gas.
I bought mine gifts all the time and put my needs second. We went to California on vacation, I dropped $1400 on Rodeo drive on a Louis Vuitton just so she could say she got it there. Bought her a brand new Harley on her Birthday. Had date night every week and banged her all the time. Went to the gym every day to keep myself looking good. Complimented her. By all means we weren't perfect, some thought we were, but no. We argued about chores, housecleaning, normal shit... Finances. Kids, whatever. We're married. That shit happens. It's taking care of responsibilities. She didn't have to work.
She wanted to work in personal training. I took the online test for her and got her certified which took her narcissism to a whole other level.
Point is if they are broken they will do it. Even Lois did it to Superman. It wasn't you. The guys here come from all walks of life and care about their families. This is the group that maintains their loyalty and honor. We don't take words like that lightly. We fight and try to understand.
And in regards to *mediocre* sex.
Your WW HAD sex with someone else regardless. The *mediocre* is a head game to put you At ease. Did she go back for more? Must not have been too bad and although they say it was because they wanted that validation to keep coming I always called bullshit on that also.
We're strong
They are weak
Whenever someone walks away from their family, husband,children, household they are weak.
If a woman cannot see that being a mother and a wife is a position of honor and beauty their is something seriously wrong. Especially children who view their parents with all the adoration a human is capable of. To throw that away is basically a tragedy.



Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444 - I agree completely. I guess I didn't make my point very clear. I certainly noticed her choice of words, but my point was that it is a useless errand to give it much thought.

It doesn't matter if the POSER was young and cut or old and fat. It doesn't matter if it was amazing sex or just mediocre. It doesn't matter if they were an attorney/professional or work night shift. They were a broken person that *capitalized* on an opportunity that our broken wives offered them. They were a loser willing to put up with *sharing* their women with us. It still befuddles me that he knew full well that my WW kept coming home to me. It makes me ill knowing we were *sharing* her. What kind of guy is willing to accept that? I digress. If it wasn't them it would have ended up being someone else.

You had a unique opportunity to confront the POSER. Most of us haven't. My point is that it serves no purpose to compare or contrast yourself with the OM. Even if he looked like Channing Tatum, you are still the prize. You're the one with honor.

Like Sal said ...

there aren't too many winners out there who want to screw other men's wives

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 2:37 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Syrupman
♂ New Member
Member # 39989
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, this is my first post. I haven't meet the OM either don't really care to but I went through the comparison period and it drove me nuts.

We are over 2 years out of DDay and are trying R but the blame game is still going on, I just told her recently that I would not take any of the blame and that she was responsible for all of it.

I believe she is a conflict avoider and has bottled up all kinds of resentment. She is emotionally clammed up. How do you get a conflict avoider to open up?


Me BH 44
Her WW 41

Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Ohio
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Syrupman,

Sorry you're here. A lot of new faces lately.

I don't have terribly good advice. I struggle with my wife in much the same way. I think it comes down to what you are willing or not willing to live with. My WW is finally opening up a little but it is only because I have made it a requirement of R. Without MC I was leaving. She was reluctant but agreed. Our MC has been helpful to help grease the wheel of disclosure.

Love the screen name Syrup. I prefer whipped cream myself.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 2:06 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444 - I agree completely. I guess I didn't make my point very clear. I certainly noticed her choice of words, but my point was that it is a useless errand to give it much thought.

Lol, no you were clear. I was just expounding upon it. Your golden. Your posts fire me up sometimes and allow me to think about details.

They were a loser willing to put up with *sharing* their women us. It still befuddles me that he knew full well that my WW kept coming home to me. It makes me ill knowing we were *sharing* her. What kind of guy is willing to accept that? I digress. If it wasn't them it would have ended up being someone else.

Gold
Like we were swingers and only she knew it.
How desperate is it to hit on and bang a woman that you knew was banging someone else? And be good with that? I do know that OM attempted to make a pact with my WW that she wouldn't sleep with me. I guess she agreed because apparently one of the things that upset him the most was that I told him I was fucking the shit out of her the day before and after he fucked her. I guess him thinking my WW was exclusive to him made him feel like less of a scum bag and more validated.
A broken piss poor excuse of a *man* is what he was.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 6:10 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Syrupman
♂ New Member
Member # 39989
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tclear, thanks for your answer. My WW seem to open up and talk about the A, since I started to do 180. She doesn't like be moving in that direction but it's really helpful for me. When we start talking about A, she will step back and away which is upsetting.

Her parents were distant and not affectionate, but I can't convince her that she has FOO issues. MC keeps going in all kinds of directions and seems to help her with the blame game.


Me BH 44
Her WW 41

Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Ohio
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC keeps going in all kinds of directions and seems to help her with the blame game

I would strongly suggest getting a new MC if you're not getting the help you need.

MC, in my opinion, should be directed by you the BS. The A is THE REASON you're in counseling to begin with. All M have issues and those may well need some assistance at some point in time as well, but the first order of business needs to be her A. You need to work on the reasons or why's behind her allowing herself to break her moral code and her wedding vows. You need to be able express your pain/anger/disgust/whatever and she needs to be able to validate/empathize with your feelings. The A must be worked through first: no blame-shifting, no lies, no excuses. Honestly, it sounds like she could benefit more from IC until the blame game stops.

If your MC isn't helping you do that I suspect they are causing more harm than good.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 3:00 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there such a thing as professional projection?

Sure seems like it, TC.

Sal- Yeah the MC thing just really rubbed me the wrong way. We are both in IC and I like that.

Glad IC is working for you, numb. It's probably the more effective approach anyway.

My point is that it serves no purpose to compare or contrast yourself with the OM.

Agree with this 100% TC. I'm far from a perfect person but I wouldn't even know how to begin to compare myself to a single man who spends nearly a month sweet talking a woman who is legally and spiritually bound to another man into sleeping with him. Knowing all the time that she has 4 minor kids at home. All in the pursuit of responsibility-free sex. A single man who chooses that lifestyle over pursuing a single woman.

My eyes work perfectly, so I'm able to recognize a hot woman whether she's married or single. I can certainly understand admiring a beautiful woman regardless of her marital status. But I can't relate to someone who feels entitled to possess something that isn't theirs. To use another person over and over again for your own jollies, with no regard for the consequences suffered by others. No thanks.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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