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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
HoldingTogether
♂ Member
Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Men they sleep with and men that raise their babies...And you, honey, are one of those who raises the babies."

That is like some fucked up feminist version of the Madonna/Whore complex isn't it?

Sorry you had to hear that man. Sounds like she needs a mental tune up.


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 337 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
blueeyesonthebay
♂ New Member
Member # 33831
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was a slip up on her part. It was something initially said as a throw away, a conversation starter. We have strange conversations in our home. My daughter once asked her grade 2 teacher to clarify St. Anselm's ontological argument for her, because she had not quite caught the gist of it at dinner.

I think that we had become so "normal" in our interactions that she simply read this passage to get my opinion without really thinking of where the conversation might head. In most circumstances she is very careful around these topics. To be honest, I don't think she was trying to get me to agree with her. It was something just floating out there. The conversation simply took a wrong turn.

It doesn't stop me from wondering about her comment though and if she really see men in this way. To her credit, she has always said that men would be astounded at how shallow women really are and that we give them far too much credit. That is, women can be consumed by the same base thoughts as men and will do just about anything for security and money. She has said that as a group (she realizes it's a generalization) she envies men for their sense of honour and duty. It's something she claims that she cannot understand, but says that she knows exists through the example I've provided.

Still, there is unfinished business and this has brought it to the fore.


It's a dark ride my friends
BH 54
WW 51
2 grown children DS and DD

Posts: 15 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: NL Canada
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that this should *probably* go in to "investigative tips", but with all the extra computer savvy men we have here, I''ll going to ask y''all: Anyone know of a good software or hardware to dig through my WW''s old phone? She changed phone almost on the exact date she claimed they started having sex, so if I can get in there and look around, it''d be really helpful in either giving me some small peace of mind, or letting me know she is still lying. PM, please.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:45 AM, August 8th, 2013 (Thursday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"So what you're saying is that women have men they marry and men they fuck."

I've come to believe that this is worse than fucked-up, this is actually the truth. Generalization I know, with plenty of exceptions at the tails of the distribution, but an accurate description of the peak of the bell curve.

Not too long ago I read a study that claimed that women are most likely to engage in extramarital sex when they are ovulating. WTF?

Actually, it might just make perfect sense from an evolutionary point of view, particularly in the early days when humans existed in small inbred tribes, and there were a number of "tall, dark strangers" wandering about. Alphas, in other words.

That character exists to this day in Westerns, and post-Western fiction like Lee Child's Reacher character. They're crawling all over the "bodice-rippers" in the paperback section at the grocery store. You can bet those guys dropped a load or two in every village they visited. And, to serve evolution, it was the fertile women than wanted it the most. Extra! Extra! Read all about it!

Trick is, humankind needs Betas to do the long haul heavy lifting so the babies grow up to reproduce. But, the Betas don't like doing that work for another guys spawn. And to expand on what I said in an earlier post, we have to BELIEVE the kids are ours.

And so, we invented marriage.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 9:12 AM, August 8th (Thursday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hm, I can see how that could go blue. If she was something she was thinking on instead of something she was trying to use to justify her behavior then the lack of malice is nice but the ignorance is still painful, yeah.

re: alpha male, nah. Aside from humans never operating like that AFAIK - one dude gets to mate with all the females AND NOBODY ELSE DOES, the idea of an alpha is one of a leader, protector, etc. Some douchebag lingering at the edge of the pack waiting to pounce on an unprotected vagina because otherwise Big Daddy will beat his ass sounds like the the exact opposite of that anyway.

The idea that there's an evolutionary viability in consuming as much seed as possible just seems absurd to me. We developed as a family unit - it's pretty obvious that most pregnant human females towards the end of their term and immediately after will require additional protection and support in order to survive. It's also pretty obvious menz have not looked kindly on fucking around - history is pretty rife with examples of smashing baby skulls of thine enemies and shit. Competition? No way sir. So running an additional risk of having Big Daddy place Baby On Spike seems like a good way to ensure a lot of kids die off even if they survive to be born and then survive the first couple of months - because guys that pump'n dump, they don't hang around, the idea that these guys get other dudes to raise their kids, as an evolved trait that became species dominant or even beneficial?

Yeah even the bible has a couple of "Kill all their kids" moments. I can't see that idea as anything other than pure fantasy.

eta:

The thing about evolution is that it is not a fine tuned machine. It's fucked up and messy and frequently leads to disastrous results. So even if something like that did happen, it doesn't mean it *should be* that way just because it is, and it doesn't mean it's benevolent, beneficial to the species or even reasonable to accept as is. We don't think randomly crushing our enemies, driving them before us and rocking out to the lamentation of their women is Right or Beneficial even though millions of years of evolution can say Yeah We Do It That Way.


As humans we can shape our destinies, and we have become Top Predator by banding together to say Fuck You Environment, You Belong To Us Now (Vader voice there).

[This message edited by StillGoing at 9:59 AM, August 8th (Thursday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7091 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I must be getting close to the record for TT.

D-Day 1 - 94, D-Day 2 - 96. Over the years it's been TT: TrickleTruth, TL: TrickleLies, but mostly TS: TrickleSilence.

There are women whom we trust with our heart, soul, and children, and then there are women we don't trust at all.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The idea that there's an evolutionary viability in consuming as much seed as possible just seems absurd to me.

I'd like to second that.

Evolution occurs throughout nature but I have a hard time using it to justify behavior. One of the many differences between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom is our ability to control behavior on our own. We can choose how to act. I don't think man has changed very much in the thousands and thousands of years we have been around. Sure, cultural norms and customs change but I tend to believe that inate human morals and values have gone unchanged. Infidelity and/or multiple intimate sexual partners have never been a recipe for success in any civilized society.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG

The thing about evolution is that it is not a fine tuned machine. It's fucked up and messy and frequently leads to disastrous results. So even if something like that did happen, it doesn't mean it *should be* that way just because it is, and it doesn't mean it's benevolent, beneficial to the species or even reasonable to accept as is.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Don't make the mistake that I think my description of human nature is particularly laudable, I don't.

Nor do I think very highly of the "Alphas". Most of them are scumbags. To quote from another thread, "Do they always affair down?"

Me, I'm a Beta and I'm proud of it. I make money, raise kids, fix shit, help with the cleaning, and do most of the cooking. I also get to sleep with my wife every night I'm in town. Some nights, we don't just sleep.

Didn't keep her from fucking a scruffy Alpha on the side though. Or making a comment a bit like BlueEye's W.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crushing our enemies, driving them before us and rocking out to the lamentation of their women

Conan Fucking rules!

As for Alpha males. We here are the Alpha males. Don't buy that bullshit that were not.
POSERS are generally cowards as witnessed here.
Fortunately for them the only evolution that has taken place is the pussification of society where civized laws protect them from being on the receiving end of a 5.56 mm suppository.
Speaking of Conan, back then he would split a coward from crown to gullet. No, modern man protects their acts and the courts look the other way.
I do believe that many women play the bad boy field during their younger days until they meet someone they think is responsible to settle down with and have their children. Just like men do.


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Men they sleep with and men that raise their babies...And you, honey, are one of those who raises the babies."

I think you gave as good as you got. I've learned that most often by ignoring the stupid shit that comes out her mouth sometimes speaks more than if I had engaged her with actual words. But me being the person I am, some comments just deserve to be ridiculed, that is one of them.

However I think the more appropriate response would have been... "So assuming the inverse is also true, exactly what category does that put you in honey?"
See in a way I think her comment speaks more to her view of self rather than her actual opinion of you. And once your consider all that it means it actually quite sad. We are lead to believe that THEE most important job a female has in life, is the proliferation of life. The whole mother instinct and nurture kit-n-caboodle. So is she really saying she lacking the raise the kids traits herself?

She painted herself into that corner, your comment just allowed her to sit there.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 421 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Men they sleep with and men that raise their babies

You could substitute "women" for men in the above quote and it would still accurately describe how many see the world. Other people are just objects to be used for one's own purposes. Subconsciously if not consciously. That's a sad way to live. A person like that will go his or her whole life not understanding why happiness and peace seem so elusive. The only thing they'll know for sure is that someone else is to blame.

ETA: As DR indicated, sometimes it may be just stupid shit that came out of her mouth. Didn't mean to imply that your wife is nothing more than a user, blue.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 11:49 AM, August 8th (Thursday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Made it to Everett, WA. Holy crap I am tired of doing that drive. Anyway, just checking in. Hope all y'all are doing well.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1263 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and may God gave mercy on us all.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glad you made it back to the family safe and sound WB. We've been pretty much memeless without you.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3287 | Registered: Dec 2011
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just read this:
You can spend minutes, hours, days,weeks, months, or even years over analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've , would've happened....or you can leave the pieces on the floor and move the fuck on.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

leave the pieces on the floor and move the fuck on

Essence of the 180 right, make HER pick up the pieces to HER mess.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 421 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agreed Betrayed.
At some point, your give a shit meter just fills up, and it's impossible to fit more in there. That is where I found my peace.

On another note, Move went smoothly. My phoenix job has kept me on so I am working remotely. Wife and I are sharing an office off of our house. Pretty sweet set-up actually. We'll have to see how long we can stand each other. (actually I'm not too worried about it--where we are at now is a good place).

I won't say I miss the heat of Phoenix, but 80 degrees is pretty nice up here. Sadly, I know the rain is coming.

We've been pretty much memeless without you.

I'll see what I can do to remedy that situation. I am just waiting for a new thread to open. I have an epic meme ready to go. Or I'll just post "first" either way, pure awesomeness.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 4:03 PM, August 8th (Thursday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1263 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey WB,
glad you made it safe

enjoy the greenery


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

glad you made it. the office arrangement sounds somewhat interesting.

that alone should give you an interesting meme!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2062 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

enjoy the greenery

Is that code for something that is legal in WA? Inquiring minds want to know


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3287 | Registered: Dec 2011
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