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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Found it! The one place she thought I'd never look...underneath a pile of her shoes.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Mikey56
♂ Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see she had two of them......no surprise there....

ETA: I just noticed the second one is the "Shit Sandwich Edition"....a true classic!

[This message edited by Mikey56 at 1:26 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From the Preface

“...and Heaven have mercy on us all - Presbyterians and Pagans alike - for we are all somehow dreadfully cracked about the head, and sadly need mending.”
Herman Melville Moby Dick

[This message edited by MoreWould at 1:25 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When did GenCon move from Lake Geneva? I remember when Gygax started them up in the 70's...never did make it, but it was just a D&D thing then (pre AD&D...).

Nice meme DR!


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gencon is more than painting little people and killing with foam swords. That's like, I dunno, drama club. Gencon is like Disneyland for nerds, only I never got to go to Gencon.

You can go hit the family area to learn what they are doing:

http://www.gencon.com/attend/familyfun

Meet Doctor Who and Chekov:

http://www.gencon.com/attend/goh2013/mediagoh

Rock out with your.. okay just get drunk with a bunch of idiots dressed like zombies:

http://www.gencon.com/attend/dance

Man if you can't find it at Gencon it's not even a meme on the Internet. Enjoy the hell out of that!


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gencon is more than painting little people and killing with foam swords. That's like, I dunno, drama club. Gencon is like Disneyland for nerds, only I never got to go to Gencon.

I know. I am so full of it. I meant no harm. Just giving you a little grief.

We have gone every year for the last 4-5 years. My oldest boys (13 and 15) love it. They save all of their spending money just for the one or two days we go. I give them a hard time too, but honestly it is kinda cool. They are used to my sarcastic humor and just ignore me.

I know I can be an insensitive jerk sometimes. Maybe I'm just a little jealous that there isn't a TC sniper backing up 5454, Sal, jjct and WAL.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 1:54 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
HotSauce
♂ New Member
Member # 40309
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Warning: Lengthy post.

Been lurking for a while...First post, just needing to vent. Feel free to comment but it really is not necessary.

I've been having a terrible last 2 weeks primarily due to triggering from having to travel the same route WW took on her hookups. I feel like it is D-Day all over again. Depression, foggy thoughts, lack of concentration, no appetite you name it. I am surprised I'm not dead in a ditch somewhere, I can't count the turns and exits I have missed in my travels. I think my depression is caused by pent up anger so I am going to release some here. I hope you don't mind.

In the past 2 weeks I have reflected on the things that really got me. I have not shared with WW because she will never ask what is bothering me. I will never give her the privilege of seeing me broken again so its all good anyhow.

So here goes, things ruined for the foreseeable future:

Christmas- This is when she decided it was a good idea to say fuck the marriage and hook up with POSER co-worker 22 years her junior. I guess the thought of having sex with someone that could be your son didn't bother her. She was suffering from imgettingoldites so I guess she got her strokes there. The way she treated me during Christmas will stick with me for a while and now I know why she did.

Ruined forever:

My birthday 2/4/66 - D-Day 2/8/13 enough said.

Things that sting.....ALOT!:

She asked me to help her get in shape so she could wear a bikini for our June beach trip. Really it was please help me get in shape so I look good naked while I'm fucking junior POSER.

After she lost weight and toned up a bit, she had me buy her all new sexy underwear from Victoria Secrets, not for me, but so she didn't have to wear her ragged out drawers when she was going to fuck POSER.

She had me help her color her hair, because POSER said "if you're going to go blond you might as well go all the way".

So basically she had me help her get ready to fuck some punk at work. Why, I got the standard I didn't think you cared.

I took the 50/50 share of responsibility with the marriage before the affair initially, but fuck that its more like 99/1. I put up with a sexless marriage for the last 6 years. 12 times in the last 2 years I consider sexless. I tried numerous times to rekindle the flame only to be met with apathy. I finally gave up. If its wasn't for my kids, I'd be gone. So, it turns out the affair wasn't for love, it was for sex. "A lot" of sex according to her. Another slap in the face.

Now, it hasn't all been bad. She has been more loving and attentive. When I triggered in the past, she would shut down and withdraw. Not this time, she has been telling me she loves me with lots of hugs and kisses. I just wish she would work on herself and not give me It will never happen again because I say so shit. I still think she has boundary issues and she has not dealt with any of her validation issues. So I'm not safe.

I'm going to keep working towards recovery, wish me strength and honor my brothers.

[This message edited by HotSauce at 3:36 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS

Welcome. Sorry you're here.

I assume you've been reading in the Healing Library here on SI, but if not, there's a lot there that will help you.

If and when you're ready to move on the graduate studies, I think the books by Anthol Kay are indicated for your situation.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I can be an insensitive jerk sometimes. Maybe I'm just a little jealous that there isn't a TC sniper backing up 5454, Sal, jjct and WAL.

lol, sorry. I didn't think you were insensitive, I was excited and envious.

You are actually on the roster, I only posted mostly about the tomfoolery bits. If I were overly obsessive I could record missions and write fanfic like some guys do. Which is cool and all but I really don't want to make a youtube account. I think I have about 15 people on the roster total. I could post everybody if it wasn't overgeeking.

eta:

Hey HotSauce, welcome, sorry you are here.

I think the best thing about all our stories being so similar is that it means we never get impatient hearing it, since it's like there's a little part of our own rants in there.

Has your wife gone NC, given you transparency, all that stuff?

[This message edited by StillGoing at 4:01 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG
It's all good. I'll post some pictures. The best thing about it for me is that I'm the best Dad in the world for a day in the eyes of those two boys.

HS
So sorry you're here, but glad you found us. Keep reading and posting. You'll get a lot of sharing, at least I have. The guys on here know more about me (at least what I share about me) than most people. It is nice knowing that we 'get it'. It sounds like your WW is remorseful, but is she still doing the blameshifing thing. (i.e. I didn't think you cared) Are you two in MC? Do you talk to anyone outside of your M?

Keep the posts coming.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sorry guys, been 'away' a bit for a while, been reading though. WAL - awesome news, glad for you and wincing.

It sounds like your WW is remorseful

HS, i'd say not. Shes rugsweeping and lulling you back into your 'box' - I'd call bullshit on that. You cant wish/make her change but you can learn to recognise her behaviours for what they are; meant to manipulate and force an outcome - something we have mostly been 'conditioned' into over the years. this is a good time to take stock of what YOU want in life outside the context of marriage and learn some healthy detachment (read up on DETACH and the 180). If she still demonstrates boundary issues, you really need to find a way to ensure your safety. She needs to own her issues to actually fix them, you cannot own them for her.

Something I read here on SI which may help you recognise where your WW is at: "you can't heal what you cant feel". Remorse is borne out of empathy and a crushing realisation of what you've done to your BS/Marriage and kids/family; most of all the self-betrayal. some of the veteran waywards down at the wayward section have walked that talk; you can see it from their posts.

wishing you the best, hang in there, time is the only thing that'll get you to some semblance of sanity. dont beat yourself up too much, we're all walking testaments to being bumbling fools for months/years after dday (yes, I mean the rest of you menz here )


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
HotSauce
♂ New Member
Member # 40309
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all

MW-Yes I've done lots of reading and I hate reading so that says a lot. Sexless prior to the affair, all good now....go figure.

SG-yes to NC and transparency with a few caveats. She still works for the same company but changed shifts so a lot less contact. She says saying his name makes her physically sick. So she pretty much refuses to talk about him. But I can't monitor her work email because login information is logged due to sensitive nature. More than one log in at a time is automatic termination. She said she would log in for me at home but whats the point if she knows its coming. I told her I would not jeopardize her job. I asked her to tell me if there is any contact, she said she didn't remember that request, but agreed to tell me from the last blow up. Still no mention of contact for 4 weeks, hard to believe. Still struggling with this. She is owning it and remorseful. Called herself a liar last week, when she was trying to convince me she was tell the truth and I had no reason to believe her. Sad, but progress

TC-No blameshifting anymore, she is owning it. No MC. No one to talk to outside the marriage, nobody knows but us.

I wish I would have found the MENZ group sooner. So much wisdom without the touchy feel BS.


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS

I think a key is in your own words - I'm not safe

For me at least, being able to trust my feelings and instincts after D-day took me awhile. I personally try to remind myself some simple truths: If I feel like I'm being taken advantage of, I probably am. If I feel like I should say no, I should. If I feel uncomfortable about something, there is a reason. I had nearly a year before D-day and a year after D-day with constant gaslighting and blameshifting from my WW. I let her determine what the *truth* was even when I knew it was the exact opposite. I don't struggle with that now, but it was a hurdle for me to get over. My point is if you don't feel safe, you're not. That's great that you recognize it. Now, what are you going to do about it?

Personally, the first issue for me would be NC. I'm sure there are financial reasons for her to continue working at the same place as the POSER, but I would strongly suggest finding a different solution. You haven't mentioned how long the A lasted. What exactly is *a lot* of sex in her opinion? I think it is difficult to mentally move on with POSER still potentially in the picture.

If she is remorseful she should be willing to do what it takes for you to feel safe. That means owning her issues, defining her boundaries and working through the *why's* of the A. Being loving and attentive is a start, but there should be some more substance in her changes. You know that already. Is she willing to do that type of work? What is she doing already?

I know people here have worked through R without counselors involved. I know all counselors aren't created equally, but in my situation my detachment and a hard-nosed counselor has made a world of difference in my WW.

It took my WW nearly 17 months to start to get it right. Honestly, I'm kind of new to actually trying true R but I have a lot of experience with false R. You can feel the difference. The way she greats you, talks to you and touches you. It seemed to change almost overnight. It took her knowing I was ready to walk and a counselor backing up my story for her to *see the light*. I'm not sure it is going to last, but it is definitely different than the previous 17 months. She is willing to do the work now. I guess I'm advocating MC for the both of you. The basics need taken care. You shouldn't feel unsafe.

Ideally she would benefit from IC. I know my WW would benefit. She hasn't quite got to that point and we are working on many of the same issues in MC so for now I'm not pushing too hard for it. It would be easier on me if she did work on IC instead of working through it with me, but at least we are working through it at this point.

Just staying where you are isn't going to get you very far. I'm sure you know the definition of insanity - doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. If you aren't talking to someone and she isn't talking to someone, you are going to be in the same boat a year from now. It doesn't get any easier as time goes by unless the issues are dealt with IMO.

Posting and reading here will be a tremendous help for you. Get it out. Feel free to vent. We have all been there or are currently there. There may be a few lurkers that you lull out of lurkdom with your story. We usually aren’t very touchy feely but every once in awhile we might surprise you. B444 recently pardoned us all from his “make a plan to kill” list. If that’s not touchy feely I’m not sure what is.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 6:30 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sexless prior to the affair.
That's a good one.

Finding out she's a beast in heat adds specialsauce spice to the hurt don't it?

So let's figure this out.
I think that should go near the top of the spreadsheet. You know, *things that are true no matter what* (sorry my wise friend, it hasn't passed yet!)

The spreadsheet, fuck that, let's give it a title shall we? is nothing, if it's not chockalot full of things that are true no matter what - the spice I'd choose is fuck those who disagree.
Makes it salt ty.

It'll be the ultimate 'I'm sorry you feel that way' definition of definitions. So, where do we begin?
At how many men have appeared on here in sexless M's, whose spouses then cheated, and the reasons for that?

To be honest, owning my own shit and all that, I want to leave this ...
as my footprint.
As the good I could do subsequent men.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS -

My birthday 2/4/66

Same day as mine only you're younger.

The only advice I can offer is to believe what she does not what she says.

[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 7:16 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444 recently pardoned us all from his “make a plan to kill” list. If that’s not touchy feely I’m not sure what is.

Yes. No more touchy feely, no more kid gloves
Hot welcome to your new home. Everyone on here is your brother. We are all in your fox hole. We're a band of brothers. This is psychological warfare. The obvious combatants are your WW and POSER. However the one you need to be aware of is yourself. You will be second guessing yourself throughout this whole ordeal. You want to believe what your WW is saying and doing and in the process you will be gas lighting yourself. You allowed this deception to go on long enough.
She deprived you of sex, love, honesty, and comfort. Unbeknownst to you , you have been abused in the worst ways a spouse can be abused. Yeah we're men. We're tough as nails, but subconsciously you have been worn down and stressed out. Your wife gave herself to someone else repeatedly.
First things first
DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING SHE SAYS.
She is in damage control mode. She planned this and she figured eventually she will be caught. She figured you would be a pussy. She would cry, make promises, smooth things over. In the meantime , until she stepped on it, she would have *lots* of sex.
She's playing you. Assume she's still talking to OM. Fuck, she works with him.
My WW still worked with OM. No way. I got her the job. Supported her and took her certification test. I wanted her to be employed and be happy. Bit me in the ass.
I called her corporate office and made a complaint. Said they were running a Payton place. I made sexual allegations saying my WW's behavior was supported by management because they were engaging in the same conduct. I added that the clubs reputation would be ruined and I was contemplating legal action. I asked them Not to fire her because as soon as I divorced her it would impact me financially and I didn't want her out on the street.
OM ended up leaving the state... He told the employer he feared for his life. Pansy.
WW ended up getting fired. I blew that shit up. I told her once everyone heard about it she would be thought of as the gym slut. Fuck the noise. It was over. NC my way.
Either your wife quits or you D it will have a negative financial impact. I'm not going to tell you what to do but I'll have none of that. I won't trigger over her job. If my WW cannot conduct herself professionally then she doesn't need to be there.
I would have D'd over that.
No my friend. Take the hard line now, while you can because over time your power base is going to diminish.
Sex 12 times in 2 years?
Wow. I've said before the Vag is my kryptonite. That is my WW's only power. If she didn't use that she would be done.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 7:38 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not really welcome HotSauce, but glad you found us. Great bunch of guys here, and best part is, yeah, we grok. And to be honest, I think I finally get grok - not just understand it, but get it. We Menz just grok sometimes. We feel your pain, frustration, anger, confusion, love, devotion, loyalty, and get it. You've gotten some great advice. If you are ever in doubt, re-read it, then read your post as if it wasn't you that wrote it - then ask yourself if that advice sounds reasonable. Sorry you are here, but glad you found us.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got bitched at a couple places for using the word grok.

I think I just said "Well fuck you and your feelings on the subject."

I love being badass on the internet.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What kind of internet philistines are you hanging out with that you're getting shit over grok? I mean...srsly. You need a better class of homies.

Know your Heinlein or gtfo, that's what I say.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
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