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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
HotSauce
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Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, August 17th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sam and Andy's is still around but not on the strip. Yes sir, go Vols! UT vs UT would be awesome as long as UT wins. Orange is one of my favorite colors.

Yes, CSA=childhood sexual abuse.

[This message edited by HotSauce at 8:19 PM, August 17th (Saturday)]


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, August 17th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting note on college uniforms - watching University of Virginia play Auburn. Their colors are literal the same - Auburn's colors are identical because their first AD came from UVA and he was fond of the colors. We went and watched them play NYE in the Peach Bowl at the Georgia Dome (yes, I know it now has a sponsor) and it was hard to tell the fans apart.

I can vouch for the UT and UT colors being almost the same. When we moved back to VA from TX, my son was still a bit of Longhorn fan so we did his bathroom in a TX motif in UT colors. Only problem was that Home Depot doesn't have the TX color because of licensing issues - but they had TN, so we went with that. Close enough that I don't think anyone has ever noticed.

RB, hope the fishing was good - we caught enough Blue that we'll have a meal tomorrow night.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
aesir
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:51 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've noticed a trend so common it has become an acronym. It seems that people are always claiming that the men are emotionally unavailable. This gets abreviated to EU, and then there is a whole list of dysfunctions listed and someone will come in and say that that is typical, or even textbook, for EU men. For some reason I always see this and think "what's up with all the dudes in Europe?"


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 4:59 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EU men
Just another label, like MAP...manpig. I really know nothing @ being EU, it is 'foreign' to me
(more on eu in a momo)
Didn't know @ the Auburn/Va. conexn Tred - interesting. Fishing for blues is almost nothing but catching - those hungry suckers bite at colored ribbon when you run out of bait...too bad they don't "keep", seems I always caught more than I could eat & had to give them away...fun catching them though!
Half the SEC has new coaches this year, will be interesting.

Side note: Fuck KFC.
Along with Tecate and Fiat. Somehow, they think it's clever marketing to feature a man being slapped by a woman.
So, if it's ok with you, I'm calling for a mancott of those companies - me, I'll just picture some "slapper" with a bucket btwn her legs, sippin on a T, driving her fiat off a dam cliff - somewhere in the EU, say, the Pyrenees...

Now, I'm too pissed to talk @ the eulabel. Maybe later when I calm down and become less emotional.
This broken fukin thing that was my heart was too available.
I got yer emotional needz right here...


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
HotSauce
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Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another vote for a mancott, how about the number 1 song on top 40 chart. Blurred Lines. Nice. I want to smash my radio every time that piece of shit comes on.

Labels are another one. Labels are excuses because nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions. I would be willing to bet these women claiming EU man are just projecting or seeing mirroring of themselves. That is what it was in my case.

[This message edited by HotSauce at 6:36 AM, August 18th (Sunday)]


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't believe most men are emotionally unavailable. I think we speak a different emotional dialect, certainly -- and one that all men seem to understand in our own interactions, but it's not like we don't feel what we feel or are incapable of recognizing and respecting our own feelings.

The problem is that our society has crafted a message that the feminine emotional dialect is "more valid", to the extent that men spend a great deal more time developing expertise in reading and understanding women's emotions than women have invested in understanding men.

Instead, our dialect is frequently invalidated -- and must of us learn the appropriate boundary that if our emotional dialect isn't going to be respected, it's healthier not to share those emotions with someone who will insist that we're "doing it wrong".

Men seem to have no issue communicating with safe partners who respect their emotional life.

My experience has been that in most situations where there's an emotionally unavailable man, he's married to an emotionally abusive woman.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS, sent u a pm...

This is why I asked for clarification on the CSA...
It's funny, the minnit I posted on NB, things went south.

I'm glad I did though, bc the advice was 'take it slow' - all's good with me. The relationship? Not so much.
Now the human heart, my human heart, is a funny thing.

The *band was playing* big time, and it's good to feel that again. But all the while I'm dancing to the big band, a part of my brain is going "Whoa Trigger" - and I'm watching.

Here's what I see.
All abuse is, at it's core, emotional.
It can be physical, sexual, severely emotional screaming abuse, or even the silent treatment.
It comes in a variety of flavors, and it produces a variety of reactions. Responses.
From severe to mild.

Generally, what seems to be common denominators is fear and anger. (forgive me, still looking for *42* here).

Observing these various behaviors, let's say not calling me back - I see a devaluing of me. A basic disrespect of at least my time that I of course! do not deserve.

This is that abuse-imprinted fear manifesting itself, imo.
You see, *no one* can be really trusted, and to make this true - self fulfilling prophecy - anything close must be driven away.

There's more, and I'll probably get around to posting in NB at some point, but I thought it applied to many of our situations.
The more includes analysis of
why they must devalue
why they feel they don't deserve what's good (in this case, my ferocious love and sparkling self)
why and how anger manifests; believing falseness/false accusations, etc...

eh, if it's not one thing
it's your mother.


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wal, we cross-posted. That's very true. Plays in to 'it's hard being a guy here' I copied a bit ago.
(it was Ser's)

Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
HotSauce
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Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My experience has been that in most situations where there's an emotionally unavailable man, he's married to an emotionally abusive woman.

That is what I was trying to say but was not as eloquent


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wal, Ima gonna blame you for this rant, k?

I haven't watched teevee in awhile, but it seems to me the message is that we're just dooofuses.
Who was the last normal honorable good guy? Cosby?
Other than that, the good guys are what? Superheroes?
= don't exist.

It's no coincidence that the rise in dystopian fiction, films, novels, etc.
parallel
the eroding of male-ness.
Even in school. Testosterone makes boys bouncy, shall we say?
Drugging them makes life easier - for the (mostly) female teachers.
It's the ongoing equivalent of no-fault.
Now, that's working out real well, isn't it?

I mean, if God forbid, a guy has adventures, accomplishments, and neat stuff in his character - why then, he must be somehow mentally deficient.
Forrest Gump.

You know what's really great though?
Despite all this negative crap,
we are still awesome!
(where's wb?)


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rant away, jjct!

I can't express to you how thankful I am that part of my wife's self-directed recovery was making an effort to understand me and how I relate rather than expecting me to live up to a script that I never got to read.

She's pretty amazing, my wife. She's at work this morning, and I can't wait to see her this afternoon when she gets home -- and I don't just say that because I'm trying to keep a 5 y.o. and a 2 y.o. occupied until the grass dries out enough to take them outside.

She's the first person I want to talk to about my day. She's my best source of advice and input. She's the best person (outside of me) at understanding who I am.

Seven years ago, she would have described me as emotionally unavailable -- largely because she wasn't seeing *me*. She was was seeing the cardboard cutout of me who too often went off-script, then assigning her own motives to me for not complying. She would say to me, "You never talk to me! Why can't we just talk!"

And then not give me any clues about what she wanted to talk about, because it seemed to me that we talked all the tme. We didn't talk about the "right" things, but she couldn't articulate what those things were.

Life is so much better now that we hear each other and value both what one another have to say and the emotional experience behind it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and there we have it:
Awesome in a nutshell fellas!

Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've noticed a trend so common it has become an acronym. It seems that people are always claiming that the men are emotionally unavailable. This gets abreviated to EU, and then there is a whole list of dysfunctions listed and someone will come in and say that that is typical, or even textbook, for EU men. For some reason I always see this and think "what's up with all the dudes in Europe?"

Well that is going to be a mindworm every time I look at XCOM: EU now.


It's no coincidence that the rise in dystopian fiction, films, novels, etc.
parallel
the eroding of male-ness.
Even in school. Testosterone makes boys bouncy, shall we say?
Drugging them makes life easier - for the (mostly) female teachers.
It's the ongoing equivalent of no-fault.
Now, that's working out real well, isn't it?


Hm.. wrt drugs, we medicate our older son for ADD because he literally cannot get through the school day without it. I caved in on meds finally after he came home from school daily, crying, because he was unable to do any work. I have some serious issues with the way our education system works but I don't think medicating my son so he doesn't sound like a moving truck in reverse is going to erode his masculinity.

The superhero thing has been around forever too, though. A few thousand years ago our heroes were the guys who said Fuck You to the gods and got away with it. Sigurd dug a trench and killed a dragon, Hercules cleaned a bunch of godly horse shit, that kind of stuff. Heck, some of those guys are so awesome we put them into modern comics.

These are guys to aspire to, the same way anything unreachable is an inspiration. I think there isn't so much that there is a problem with eroding masculinity but a fear of a paradigm shift and that such a shift will overwhelm and erase the acceptability of that level of masculinity. Like, if we think it's okay to be emo or metro or enjoy a movie by Peter Jackson... okay that one does go too far, but, the idea that if we accept those things it will somehow undermine personal values, I think that is an establishment of a false dichotomy.

Hell, just look at Transformers, that kid with the name that sounds like designer shampoo is portrayed as a complete dork but he is into cars, giant robots and has hot chicks tripping all over his dork self. Once he is old enough to drink beer he'll be less of a No More Tears product and more of an Axe product.

Sorry, coffee didn't hit yet.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7115 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've seen a few threads floating around about EU men, too, and I'm hesitant to say anything even though the alarms in my head are all ringing, saying, "Uh, that sounds like every guy I know."

I feel like the terms 'EU' and 'PA' get tossed around a tad too often (IMO) with regards to men. I mean, I even see it on SI where WWs are complaining about their BS husbands being Emotionally Unavailable or Passive Aggressive..they'll describe some random exchange they had with the poor bastard about housework or somesuch and it always sounds to me like some guy who's just given up on trying to read his wife's mind.

She's the first person I want to talk to about my day. She's my best source of advice and input. She's the best person (outside of me) at understanding who I am.
This right here is why I'm still here, why I decided to say, besides my son.

and I don't just say that because I'm trying to keep a 5 y.o. and a 2 y.o. occupied until the grass dries out enough to take them outside.
You ever wanna talk kids and keeping them occupied, I'm the guy. I have a 6-year-old boy (BOY!) with (cribbing from SG here) weapons-grade ADHD. Keeping him occupied is a full-time post.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
jjct
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Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

okay that one does go too far

SG, seems I'm always laughing at your stuff.
No. Meds, when they're needed - fine, np with that. Thank Odin for better living thru chemistry & all that...
(guess that's one of the problems w/rants)- my point is @ overuse, way overuse!

Don't get me wrong @ superheroes, myths, etc...they're fun. I grew up reading them - what fun!

What I'm sayin:
Where are the real men? (I named a few a page or two ago),
you know?

Fools and doofuses have long been a prop for characterization - I get that.
Has being male ever been so degraded by the endemic use of such images, adverts, & false narratives?
I think not.

My father survived a depression, won a world war, and survived infidelity besides! Real masculinity just *is*, and cannot be changed by paradigm shift, so I don't fear that, since to me, truth is that which does not change.

It's likely that the 'war on men' is succeeding in eroding
perceptions of masculinity - not to mention the explosion of babies w/out daddies in SAHM households! - in part because many of us don't perceive we're even in a war.


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's likely that the 'war on men' is succeeding in eroding
perceptions of masculinity - not to mention the explosion of babies w/out daddies in SAHM households! - in part because many of us don't perceive we're even in a war.

I don't necessarily think that it's a conscious effort per se, it's more of the repetition of the tropes you mentioned from culture (i.e., TV and whatnot) combined with an idea that WAL touches on from time to time; namely, this idea that men in general know dick about relationships, and that women and/or feminine values are (Beck Voice)*where it's at* as far as how the genders are expected to perform their roles within the context of a modern relationship. I don't think that men need to embody some antiquated version of masculinity or whatever, I think it's much more about being comfortable in your own skin and having clear boundaries about the kind of behavior you'll accept from others. I mean, to me, the dude that politely tells his buddies that he'd rather go home and see his wife and kids than hang out with them tonight and doesn't give two shits about getting razzed for it is just as masculine as the dude who tells his wife that he's going out for a beer with a buddy who he hasn't seen in a while.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
jjct
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Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't necessarily think that it's a conscious effort per se

Because the ad-men churning out the tropes are not conscious, are not aware. They're the same ones that glorify infidelity. wtf do they know?

I'm not saying that there's some board-meeting somewhere, where people are plotting the demise of civilization - by destroying the family...

...hmm. Or am I?
Maybe the boardroom guys are just tools, manipulated by powers we don't see...
a la Screwtape...

re: "antiquated version of masculinity"
Call me an old fossil then.

No such thing.
We are told that there is.
I don't believe it.
What is true about masculinity, being essentially male,
has never changed.

Changing what it is to be a man would be changing nature.
Cannot be done.


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lol, roger that. Yeah meds do go too far sometimes.

I don't know if I really understand what you are saying about the concept of real men though.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7115 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I learned this morning what real betrayal is.

The kiddo let me know as he was done with his lunch that he needed to take a dump (or "have a poopy"), so I dutifully got up from my lunch to attend to him.

Upon returning from cleaning him up, emptying out the potty chair, etc., etc. My first realization -- three bites into my sandwich -- was that I hadn't washed my hands.

The second was that my potato salad looked funny, and was a bit more spread out on the plate than I'd left it.

The third was that our Boston terrier's breath smelled like mustard.

He looked at me with those innocent, buggy, Boston terrier eyes, and I knew he had stabbed me in the back while I was otherwise occupied.

You don't touch another man's dick, and you don't touch his potato salad. It's not a hard pair of rules to remember.

I thought I could trust him. Now I know better.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You don't touch another man's dick

True. What's the two words that will clear a crowded locker room in a heartbeat? Nice dick.

A dog that'll take your potato salad will turn on you. Shoot him.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
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