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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there is no fucking asterix to the status "married". Either your married with vows to respect or your not.

Seems pretty fucking simple doesn't it? Unfortunately, infidelity is an industry.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The FIRST people that would usually come over to join in were the MARRIED women!!!

Back when I was in the service, at least three women who were married to other servicemen propositioned me. One came on hard and managed to kiss me before I pushed away from her. That was back in my "alpha" days. I turned the others down, too. Not because they weren't worthy in a physical sense (one was smoking hot), but because I had more respect for their marriages than they did. And it would have made me feel like shit about myself.

Now that I'm a domesticated middle-aged man, I'm a "beta" I guess. No wonder I was betrayed.

BTW, to follow-up on a recent conversation I had with Tred - one of the women who tried to hook up with me was married to an alpha male's alpha male. 6'4", muscular in a lean way, good looking, tough, smart, expert marksmen, highly respected, etc. No obvious weakness. And he outranked me, too. But all of that wasn't enough for his silly wife, so she was willing to risk my life for a little fun on the side.

It really is all about them.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal, you remind me of an incident I was a small part of. During my time in the service one of my very close marine brothers went to the bar and kept getting hit on by this woman. He wasn't too interested but being single and not sober he "relented". Turns out she was married and her husband was a captain, we were all sergeants and corporals. He hounded my buddy, threatened him, and even went to my command to have him busted for adultry. Luckily we were all there and vouched for him because the captains wife said she was single. Finally the Lt. Col of our unit had to take the capt. aside and school him in how fucked up his wife was and that his problem wasn't my sgt. friend, but his slutty wife.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Short day!

said she was single.

Tan lines!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, my WWs POSAP said he didn't really intend to specialize in married women, it was just that they were so much easier that he gravitated there.

Including mine. WTF?


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I define alpha-maleness as doing the shit I want to do and being the guy I want to be.

This right here men. That's it
Being responsible. Loyal. Honest. That's alpha. Taking care of your pride, family.
This thread has made me hungry.

SG
I understood your commo and you are correct. Anyone with a rifle can kill but training and discipline makes a soldier. Keeping and maintaining your bearing.
POSERs aren't Alpha's. they disqualify themselves the moment they compromise their morals and sleep with a married women. Married women simply aren't that much of a challenge. They are jackals, hyena's, scavengers. Parasites. Those fucking things that suck up to sharks and consume their scraps.
They hide. They run. They avoid you. Doesn't matter what they look like outside, what they do for a living. It's a facade.
We are men. We are strong and domesticated. We take care of our own and even in the midst of betrayal and deception we hold our families together and we rally to this page for Counsel and comraderie. We struggle with the weight of the world on our shoulders and look for solutions to our problems. We take this crisis and forge ourselves to become stronger. And we grow from this. We tackle it head on.
There is a misconception about alpha. Alpha doesn't mean the strongest, fastest, or smartest. It deals with how we take charge of a situation and ourselves. How we take care of our cubs and keep them from harm. How we repel the enemy once they reveal themselves. Alphas can come from every facet of life. Plumbers, accountants, mechanics, handymen, professors, soldiers, firefighters, teachers, landscapers, etc.
doesn't matter what shape your in. Overweight, underweight, paraplegic, etc.
you don't have to be an expert marksmen or like trucks. You can be a chef.
Alphas are just their own man.
We are all Alpha and we all have a lot of Beta.
WW's are just fucked. Plain and simple.
Btw, I'm making a nice turkey breast London broil for dinner. Picked it up at the butcher shop.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 4:05 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rapid fire in here lately. Good stuff and it resonates with me a lot. My take is nothing is black and white. No one wants to live life under that cardboard cutout approach. I know that I don't.

I think that it goes back to the overall suggestion frequently relayed here in that you should be comfortable in your own skin. That is a man - speak up for what you want, do what you want, take care of your self. It doesn't matte whether you're on the cover of GQ or Better Homes and Gardens IMO. Just be the best damn you that you can be. Alpha, Beta, Who cares?

I personally have been just fine with myself. I'm not an outdoors kind of guy. I can't stand fishing because I can't sit still that long. But I don't judge or feel that those that love it are in the wrong. They know what they like and do it to the fullest. They are committed. I can respect that.

I guess one of the biggest things for me to come to terms with has been that I now know this crap can happen to anybody. It took me awhile to disassociate myself from my wife's choices. I thought I was excluded from this unfortunate group. Not because I felt I was better, but ďdamn I was such a great guy why would anyone ever not be fulfilled by being with meĒ type of thinking. Faulty thinking I know, but it was my thinking non-the less. I am successful, earn in the top 1%, well dressed, athletic build, blond hair/blue eyes - I mean dang it I almost want to go out with myself. I'm kidding of course and I'm not a narcissistic douche (according to me at least) but I just never for a second thought my wife would be tempted in the least. She obviously was tempted because she is/was broken. It wasnít what was missing in me but what was missing in her. Nothing new that we didnít already know.

It has nothing to do with us. I'm not as good as looking as Later, but I can hold my own. Meaningless. Frequent vacations. Meaningless. 6 pack abs. Meaningless. Wardrobe from Nordstrom. Meaningless. The list goes on and on. Point is we didn't lack anything - they did.

This concept came up last night in our MC session. My WW waxed on about how she was looking at me a few weeks ago while we were getting ready to go on a bike ride. She realized that she did *love me*. That she was such a fool to not see the wonderful man that I am, how lucky she is and how awful she feels. She said it wasn't anything extravagant that I did. I always check the tires of all of our bikes, make sure everything is in working order, and make sure the kids have their helmets on. Basic stuff we all do. She realized that all of those things I do out of love and concern for those that I love. She said I have never changed. I have always been helpful around the house, great and active father, help with the dishes/laundry/trash, etc. I have always done those things because as we have all said it needed to be done and that is just what we do. Is that Beta? Maybe, but darn it if Iím going to stop doing those kinds of things. I wouldnít respect myself and that is who I want to impress.

It was nice to hear that she realized that she justified her horrible choices based off a distortion of reality - that the very things that mean the most to her I was doing already in spades. She just chose to distort the picture to ease her discomfort and hide her horrendous behavior.

It was nice but at the same time it was a huge disappointment. I mean I knew I was wonderful already Ė what took her so long? Why did she have to offer up your sexual services to someone else to feel better about herself? Iím pissed and I think Iím going to be pissed for quite awhile.

I just find myself uninterested in my wife. That is a really bad place to be for me. I am an all or none kind of guy and right now Iím putting in very little effort towards my wife. I donít like it. I just canít look at her and think to myself how amazingly lucky I am to have a wife that now sees me as a keeper after being a booty call for another man for most of a year. She is trying. She is remorseful. So far though it hasnít been enough. Iíve detached and I donít really feel like attempting to reattach right now.

Iím far from perfect, but the one mistake that I do know that I made before was placing too much importance on my M. My job, my M and my title of father were what defined me before. Now I define me. I can be a great Dad and decent at my day job too, but I refuse to reinvest as much as I did in my M in the past. Iím just trying to find the right amount of investment.

I guess my point has been that I donít like labels. Alpha and Beta traits are a spectrum and not absolute. In terms of predicting infidelity I think those terms are worthless. The specifics may vary but the generalities are darn consistent Ė we were pretty darned good husbands and our wives just refused to see it or at least convinced themselves otherwise to meet their needs.

Iím still not sure Iíve contributed much of value other than get us one more post closer to the new thread. There is always tomorrow!

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 4:13 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sidetracking a bit...

So last night STBXWW had a moment of remorse. She FINALLY apologized for her A and all the problems it has caused. Only took a year! She was crying and carrying on. I told her I was sorry about all the damage it caused too. I also told her that regardless I have completely checked out emotionally and the D was still going through. She understood and apologized again.

Thinking about it now I think it was nice to hear but not really necessary at this point. I have detached enough that I am not even mad at her anymore. Sad yes, but it doesn't eat at me like it used to. I guess since I have moved into a different place mentally and emotionally my perspective has changed. I have become indifferent.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It has nothing to do with us. I'm not as good as looking as Later, but I can hold my own. Meaningless. Frequent vacations. Meaningless. 6 pack abs. Meaningless. Wardrobe from Nordstrom. Meaningless. The list goes on and on. Point is we didn't lack anything - they did.

Damn, how come you guys all have 6-packs? Mine is still in the cooler.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, how come you guys all have 6-packs?

Not me... I have a keg!

Seriously... great stuff on this thread this week, guys. I haven't been posting, but I have been keeping up and reading.


Posts: 4557 | Registered: Dec 2010
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Better re-read my rant, got a nice little belly I'm growing.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thinking about it now I think it was nice to hear but not really necessary at this point. I have detached enough that I am not even mad at her anymore. Sad yes, but it doesn't eat at me like it used to. I guess since I have moved into a different place mentally and emotionally my perspective has changed. I have become indifferent.

It sucks that when you finally reach that point they see the error of their ways.
When I was dating my WW I had an ex girlfriend that cheated on me. I dropped her without hesitation even though I was crazy about her.
She called one night. Wanted to get back together. WW was pissed I even spoke to her.
I explained that it was closure. I enjoyed that she tried to come crawling back. If you treat a woman right I found that they always try to come back.
I once said to WW after Dday that if she didn't fix herself she would be that girl on the phone one day.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you, since I quit the cigs I've gained a lot. Beer don't help...

I dunno, but this shit has made me a lot less loyal, and there's no real pride in being married to someone who will fuck someone else behind your back. I know I no longer hold any married person to any higher standard. Most folks are really fucked up is the best thing I have learned.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kinda reminds me of the old question to guys when dating someone a long time... "When are you going to make a respectable woman out of her?" "Not my job, sorry."


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kinda reminds me of the old question to guys when dating someone a long time... "When are you going to make a respectable woman out of her?" "Not my job, sorry."

^^^Exactly.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sucks that when you finally reach that point they see the error of their ways.

TBH, I was already going down that path before her A came to light. so many other issues there. The A was the nail in the marriage coffin. Guess she wanted to go out with a bang. She got banged alright!


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I dunno, but this shit has made me a lot less loyal, and there's no real pride in being married to someone who will fuck someone else behind your back. I know I no longer hold any married person to any higher standard. Most folks are really fucked up is the best thing I have learned.

Probably semantics in play here, but if anything, I may have become more loyal. Primarily to myself, and by extension the M and her.

Sounds weird but I probably wasn't living as authentic a life as I should have been. In a lot of ways my expectations were probably set too high. The pedestal I had her on wasn't very realistic. People ARE fucked up. Me included. I tend to look past things too often, ignore the *little* crap. A lot of self evaluation has been going on lately.

Obviously, I have NO interest in trying to R with someone who WILL fuck someone else. I'm going to give it my damnedest to try with someone who I realize could. I didn't before, hence a lot of my disbelief and pain. She now realizes that she could also(little fucking obvious). I see her trying everything she can to figure out her why's and shows remorse at every opportunity. I no longer have her on that pedestal, and have no intentions of ever returning her there.

I will try to take pride in my M at some point. I am already proud of the efforts she is making. Not everything is perfect, but it's not in the goal but in the journey that we succeed. The best lessons I learned were not the results of my successes, but my failures. I will have a better marriage based on a whole new set of ideals. More realistic ones.

No more of the emotional needs crap. That's up to her. A woman who needs compliments? No, a woman who wants a complement. A partner. Trust me, the compliments and gifts will come, but freely given and not as a result of having to fulfill a need. That leads to shitty places.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just find myself uninterested in my wife....I just canít look at her and think to myself how amazingly lucky I am to have a wife that now sees me as a keeper after being a booty call for another man....Iíve detached and I donít really feel like attempting to reattach right now.

I have become indifferent.

TC & Rye,
I hear both of you. I've been getting a lot of good breakthrough from her lately. Driving home from the family weekend and from the corner of my eye I could see she was staring at me and just balling. Got "You are the rock of our family, I don't understand what ever made me think it was okay to jeopardize that." Lots of stuff along those lines.
But with the place I'm in right now, I'm just not sure how much those admissions mean to me. I can't say thanks, and most times I don't even have the fiery rage to scream "Too late"

I'm just like Mehh. She kisses me or gives me a hug out of the blue and I'm like Mehh. I don't like feeling indifferent to my partner. It's disconcerting to me, I realize that in part its probably just a natural defense so I don't get sucked into her sarlacc-pit so easily again. But eventually that feeling must change if our marriage is going to survive.

Obviously your moving forward with the D Rye, but TC or anyone else any ideas on how to change the apathy?

I wonder if her efforts at somepoint will make me feel like she really is trying to win me back. Right now its just remorse from her, and that alone isn't changing that whole ILYBINILWY thing.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DR, if it's not an instant deal breaker, most seem to suggest giving it a year. That's with a fully remorseful spouse. Your most recent D-day was not that long ago judging by your registration date.

Other than that, look for the moments, try to expand on them. I know I spent a lot of time apathetic. It wasn't until I noticed a consistent change that I even wanted to venture a look.

I'm really only 10 months into R though. WTF, I could be way off base.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

not an instant deal breaker

It's really not at this point. It more of a worry that it won't change.

She' been trying fairly hard to make these grand emotional breakthroughs and they just aren't getting the results she wants. Not that her preconceived expectations really mean much to me, those expectations were a major contributing factor that lead to the A in the first place. Nothing ever lives up to her grandiose view of how things should turn out. But that a story for another time.

Even now typing this I can see how her gestures could be perceived by everyone here as merely manipulation tactics to bring me back in the fold. But I honestly don't believe that to be true with the breakdowns she's been having when taken in context. It's like she having her own personal DDAY, like the one I had 5 months ago when I learned the EA had turned PA. Having her own nightmares, intrusive thoughts, and flashbacks.

I'm also man enough to admit to myself that my current depressive state is having its fair share playing its part in the Mehh feeling. I'm hoping that as I work my way out of this funk, and as she works here way out of her funk (she's been dealing with her own depression as the fog dissipates) that eventually the apathy with dissipate. Maybe its asking to much but one day I hope she'll stop just saying she's sorry and start actively moving to win me back.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
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