i think now that maybe i was just hurt so bad that i kind of had if not a breakdown, a kind of fundamental change.

i stopped being mean pretty quickly, but i can't seem to get out of the "i don't care" phase. i wonder if i ever will.

i reeeeeallly don't understand the BS's that cling and mope for months. sorry. i just don't understand why anyone would want to be with someone that didn't want them, that disrepected them as badly as i've/we've been disrespected.

i get the shock. i was certainly shocked. but something inside me told me she became my enemy. i guess the lying. i just snapped. i thought "fuck her." after this, i don't want her.

maybe i'm emotionally stunted?

i am trying to be forgiving. i'm trying to be like a buddhist. you know, desire and attachment causes pain.

my thoughts. its certainly not the loving relationship i thought i had or wanted. it sucks.

I thought about cheating before the A, and after DDay, but I'm not that broken. For some BS's infidelity will send them into a tailspin, like you describe, with RA or increased drinking or other acting out. But for me? My fWH's A was an eye opener. An opportunity to get honest with myself and put some effort into changing my thinking and behaviour.

I do care less about my M, in terms of feeling like with or without it I'll be okay. I have also had to tell myself that I need to be careful to not make a bad situation worse.

It actually terrified me, and I tried to run from the questions and the feelings because I was afraid of the life changes the answers may bring. I sat with the feelings and I examined the questions over time--the only thing I was certain of was that I was not going to rush to decide anything. In just a short while, I found my center again. It was easiest when I looked at the entire landscape of my marriage: the longevity, the triumphs, the failures, the kids and extended family, the amazing history. That's when I knew I had so much to keep fighting for. So in the end, I recognized it was normal for me to have doubts, but that was ok because I also had a definite and well considered goal of making it through my H's infidelity and rebuilding what we had.

So in short, I think it's normal to hit this place in the road, but it's important to keep your internal compass pointing north and to identify and pursue your desired goal.

i think after i got over the anger

I vividly recall sitting alone in our family room one night with the intrusive thought of, "I don't love and want him or this marriage enough...do I?"

that... that is pretty much where i am at at this moment. and you're right, i kind of find it scary. it makes me wonder if there is something wrong with me.

Not sure if this will answer your question (I'm still in limbo) but as a BS I constantly asked my WH why he want to stay in the marriage. "Why now? You wanted a D so bad only a few months ago. And if you thought our marriage sucked before DDay then I have no freakin' idea why you would want to stay married now." His response would be, "because I love you." I just don't understand how someone can treat their spouse so badly because they believe they're in love with their AP and then turn around to try to save their marriage. It makes no sense to me. I need more than "because I love you."

Shortly after DDay I threatened a revenge affair but I knew they were only threats because I could never follow through with something like that. But after 18 months of TT I think he killed any feeling I might have had for him or our marriage and I could probably cheat and not give a crap about my WH but I know right from wrong. I will come out of this with my head held high (just as soon as I peel myself off the floor.)

At this point, we would be divorced if it wasn't for his attempts (minimal at best) at reconciliation. I'm not sure what I'm waiting for.... Remorse? To feel something for him again? Another DDay? I just don't know anymore...
Yeah, I'm pretty that answered your question.

To do so would mean you are willing to betray yourself.
Heal yourself first and a revenge affair would never be an option.

^^^100% agree.

My road to recovery never lead me down a path that would even entertain the thought of compromising my integrity or my values.

What my WH did was 100% wrong, beyond hurtful, and extremely destructive. This was something I would never, ever, ever want to engage in.

No, for the past 2.5yrs I have never struggled with taking the high road.

Not sure if I have that right, but this is my take on it. I have been right there at that spot in the last month or so. I have had a couple of "up-days" here and there, but on the whole I have reached the lowest point ever as regards my commitment to our marriage. And for me it has been a positive.

I think our situation is slightly different to some in that we got together when we were 16/17 years old and have been together ever since and then also, my fWH's A ended 9 years ago and in the years since then he has come to really value our M and has done some work (although a LOT remains to be done) on his issues.

In the last month or so, feeling so negative and disillusioned with my fWH and our marriage, I realised for the first time that I CAN survive outside this marriage, that I am capable and have the strength to walk away if necessary. That for me is HUGE as I have been in a serious relationship with this man my entire adult life. I have developed this sense of independence, which for me is GREAT.

The other positive is that as fast as I have been withdrawing from the marriage, fWH has been expressing his love, commitment and desire to be in this marriage. That has been a big deal for me, he is NOT the most eloquent, sensitive character, so to see him consistently committing to us, to working on his issues and to standing by me, even when I openly admit that I am thinking of walking away, that has been really significant.

Ultimately, I am now at the point where I have chosen to take D completely off the table. I don't know that I would have gotten to this point without first reaching the point of having no real need or desire to be in this marriage. Reaching that "rock bottom" so to speak, made me realise that (A) I CAN walk away, I am now staying because I WANT to, not because I NEED to and (B) fWH genuinely values me and our marriage.

So, yes, I was certainly at the point where WS possibly was at the time of the A - a point where I truly questioned my desire to be in this marriage and where fWH had little (almost no) appeal for me, the only difference being that I stuck to my morals, I kept my self-respect and I used that time to work really hard on figuring out some deep dark questions about who I am and what I want.

{hugs} Blake, hang in there my friend. You have a strong character, that comes across so clearly in your posts, one way or another you will get through this and come out a better person than you were going in.

You seem like such a thoughtful person -- I think you should just allow these feelings (or non-feelings as it were) and they will pass. If you feel like you might be a bit depressed, try dealing with that and try not to see it as a "sign" or some kind of big a-ha moment. You are feeling a little despondent about things, but I would say allow it as long as it is not potentially hurtful, and it will pass. But, if you need help, ask for it.

What I am pondering is IF a BS crosses a spot along the way to healthy R where they find themselves where the WS was...the whole devaluing of the marriage spot. If the answer is yes...how does a marriage R? Aren't both people involved now at a point where most of the value has left the marriage? Who has the energy to R if you get to this spot?

Not to be quipy, but there is that saying that the key to staying married is for both partners not to want a divorce at the same time.

Can blakesteel survive without his marriage? Is blakesteel's identity tied so tightly to being in this marriage that the fear is there would be no blakesteel without it? Do you have answers to those questions?

In my mind, you must be able to survive the end of your marriage as a solid being, alone, before the marriage can be saved.

Personally, I think I may have been the opposite. I fantasized about ending my marriage for a long time. It felt like an anchor weighing me down. I wanted out. Badly. Simultaneously, I fought like hell to save it. I have no idea WTF that means.

[This message edited by Rebreather at 11:28 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)]

I especially appreciate that idea of being able to imagine life beyond the M. I have been resonating with blakesteel's feeling of being so far away from the M.

One thing I just realized in reading this thread is that this is actually the first time in 23 years of M plus 2 years of dating that my WS has been ENTIRELY committed to US. I have spent 25 years holding us together and only just found out that I was the only one doing that. Blakesteel, if you were also the one holding things together, maybe it makes perfect sense for you (for me) to finally be able to loosen the grip a bit. Maybe in the long run that balances the power in the M so that both of you are equally committed to and working on the M. Especially if your WS wants to hold on to YOU for a change.

I got to a point where I no longer cared. Apathy I would say. I thought long and hard about dating and even people who hit on me and people I knew. I looked at all my options. Why wouldn't I? I think there is a huge difference between that point and cheating. As far as I was considered my W ended my M and I was a free agent. She needed to win me back if she wanted me otherwise I was out. Don't get me wrong I would not (did not) engage fully physically or emotionally with anyone else until D was final and I had time and space away from my W for both myself and my kids. That said I separated from her fully emotionally and well just didn't love, let alone like her for a while.

It seems to me to be a rational and healthy response to someone being a complete asshat.

take care...

Personally, I think I may have been the opposite. I fantasized about ending my marriage for a long time. It felt like an anchor weighing me down. I wanted out. Badly. Simultaneously, I fought like hell to save it. I have no idea WTF that means.

Ha ha I had to re-read this as it sounds so much like me lol. The fantasizing about being divorced, yep *raises hand* What you describe is the perfect oxymoron and I am living it now it is the fight between wanting to end and save your M at the same time.

I hope this will eventually cease. I really hope it is because I am in year 2.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 2:34 PM, July 30th (Tuesday)]

Unless you get a certain level of detachment it is impossible to evaluate which path you want to take in your life. It helps remove some of the intense emotions that can cloud your judgment.

The thing I had to do was to stop thinking long term. I just thought about each day and deciding what I wanted on that day.

I still think that way. I might decide I can't do this anymore tomorrow, but today I can deal.

The problem with the future and creating those long term expectations is that it is almost guaranteed to be different that you plan out in your head.

FWIW and I know some will disagree, but my W choice to cheat on me had nothing to do with how much she cared about our M. It had everything to do with her and her problems. Most WS who have done it right will agree with me. (Some one offs are bound to occur).

What you are experiencing is different. You are deciding to allow the idea that your M may end because she wasn't who you thought she was. Maybe it is worth fixing, maybe not. The point is your are allowing yourself some room to consider your options. Call it giving yourself permission to consider an end so you can chart a new beginning. Not a bad thing at all.

Still struggling.

...is it realistic to believe that a WS can somehow ADD value to their marriage in the aftermath of their A? Given the turmoil that enters the marriage after the affair...wouldn't the WS have even MORE reason to value their marriage LESS after the affair?

In my case it was the opposite. He had less value in our relationship before and during the A. It was what I believe "allowed" to think it was ok to cheat on me as long as I didn't know and he was "paying the bills". My WH says he values our marriage more since his A because he realized what he lost and what probably will not be regained like before the A. He now realizes his unhappiness was nothing to do with me - it was his unrealistic expectation he placed. It took him longer than I would have liked to admit this to me. I think at times he still tries not to show dependence/weakness. My pain is why did it take him to cheat and hurt me so deeply to finally appreciate me and our marriage. I think the only thing that gives me hope is he is finally trying. My fear is going back to behavior before the A.

Too many thoughts to give credit to those who made it...but wanted to speak to those that resonated with me.

RA as a means to blow it all up and be done with this....kinda see that but then this...High road, integrity, make it worse statements. The idea is to come out of this healthier then I went into this. RA would do the opposite...so no, not an option. I still notice other women and fantasize...but becoming more of a feeling like before the A was invited into my life...a fantasy. RA temptation was a part of me during this. Patience has never been a particularly strong trait of mine...this, too is changing but is slower to change then other parts of me. Someone once told me if you pray for patience God allows more trials into your life to teach you patience...I no longer pray for patience!

Lowering expectations was mentioned by some....I see now this could be really healthy and NOT as dangerous to my marriage as I once thought. Lower expectations of myself with regards to interactions with others as well as those expectations of internal workings of myself. (through personality tests I have the traits of over achieving and perfectionism...advice given on those was to relax and enjoy and expect to fail). Lowering expectations of my marriage...at least at this point...is also healthy. You cant push a rope sort of thing.

Some have talked about how they honestly felt pre-A, like how they were not happy and were thinking of an A of their own. I cant say I felt exactly like that...but have noticed other couples before the A and desired a level of interaction that I noted they had from their spouses...kindness, regular interaction, appreciation, caring. Most of my marriage I had that at some level...but for the year leading up to the A and the 10 months after the A that has been noticeably missing from my marriages. This is really the broken part of us as a couple...not of the A itself, though that certainly adds to the difficulties.

If this process wasn't so emotionally draining I would actually think the self discovery and modification is enjoyable...am pleased with the change I see within myself that I quite frankly didnt know I wanted or needed to change...then, once I wanted to make some changes I actually DID change. I am surprised on how easy some of these changes have been for me...some seemed like core blakesteele traits. Yes, it has been a bit uncomfortable as I establish new habits and ways of interacting...but really not as hard as I anticipated.

I sincerely appreciate the kind words of support and your willingness to speak openly about your travels in life...thank you.

All affected by affairs are regularly included in my prayers. God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 4:19 AM, July 31st (Wednesday)]