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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Says She is Trapped
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stay and have OW in our life indefinitely, but having everything else we want in life?

The job is only part of that.

OK. You've identified a hard-to-replicate sitch at work. Now identify the problems with your life. Work with TCD to identify the problems in your relationship and in her life.

Then start solving them.

But with lots of OT, how will you have the time and energy to rebuild yourself and your relationship? Changing jobs won't guarantee R will succeed for you, but this job may very well ensure R will fail. This is meant as an observation, not as an attack.


FBH (me) - 65+, FWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together almost 49 (as of January, 2014)
DDay - 12/2010
Almost Recovered
I share my own experience not because I'm a good model but because it's the only experience I know.

Posts: 8912 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

May I ask why you have to wait for TCD to make the decision? Perhaps she's wanting YOU to make the decision to see if you make the "right" one?

My FWH stayed in his job (he was the boss) after our first DDay. Because...money. His AP had been an employee and I didn't know about his other affairs at that point.

Then, DDay2 came, and, he was fired for sexual harassment (trying to have another affair with another employee who did not reciprocate) and his 3 other affairs came out as well that I had no idea about, also with employees.

Clearly...his job was an issue, him being the boss, was an issue. He was then unemployed for 4 months. Our livelihood and security was gone.

However, he did get another job, where he is a manager, but not the boss. He makes less money, but...we've adjusted. We've made cuts in areas. We have 5 children and I homeschool so I still stay home. We've changed our lifestyle, but the things we've GAINED are huge. Sure we don't get to "play" as much. However, our marriage and our family life is significantly better.

I didn't rock the boat after DDay1 and let him stay at his job. And devastating consequences happened. However, in time, those consequences actually made him hit bottom and made life so much better.

If *I* were you...the emotional safety of your wife is far more important than money. Make lifestyle changes. Because ultimately...your life will benefit. Is it hard? Yes, but is it worth it? YES.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 1993 | Registered: Feb 2012
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If it were to come down to it...and it comes down to you can have your wife or you can have your job...which one would you choose?

You asked for ways to comfort your wife while she make her decision on how to move forward...and you say you want to R. You know this job is a huge problem for her. Why not be proactive and look for another job..right now..before she make that decision..because she may just decide to D based on your refusal to leave your job.

Yes..she is trying to decide...but I bet your actions during this time will help her in whether she chooses R or D.

You looked up OW online a while back. Why? You have chosen not to respond to this question...which is your prerogative...but I can promise you TCD hasn't forgotten. I would imagine finding that out just reinforced her need for you to leave that job.


You say you need this job because you have kids..and you want to provide a certain lifestyle for them. I get that. I understand they will suffer consequences if you take a pay cut. But won't they suffer consequences if mom and dad ..and they have to spend every other weekend at dad's?

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:43 AM, August 1st (Thursday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: R? I don't know..ask me tomorrow..it changes rapidly.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 6648 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not changing jobs. My BW has made me working here a boundary she will not live with.

I'm not going to put the rest of it there, but those were your words less than 6 months back, TTMU. You spent several posts there explaining why.

Arguing about this stuff is one of the ways dealing with the rest of the affair gets buried. Okay, you make a lot of money and it's going to be hard to find another job that pays as well. You have laid out that situation in nearly every thread you have started. Are you looking for sympathy or validation? Because riding it out in hopes things improve probably isn't going to be the solution you want.

Not trying to be antagonistic here, really.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7107 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why did I lay it out this time? Because someone was unfamilar with our situation. Even in the post where I described it I noted my fear that it would look bad. My original post, the reason that I came back to the board for advice, was to seek input as to how to help her feelings of being trapped while I gave her time to sort through her feelings, her options and our next steps. TCD herself has said to me that I have been doing so much better with her feelings and triggers, but this was something that was nagging me. I wasn't looking for anyone to tell me how hard our situation was. I tried to be clear about all of this. Iknow what I said in the past. And things change. All of us here, even those fully reconciled, said awful things about their spouses at some point or at the very least statements that they regret in some way. Progress doesn't change the past. I said those things, and am trying to move forward in a helpful, loving, compassionate way now. That is all. That is why my original post was so vague... I didn't want to bring those topics back up at this time, because that is not our focus at the moment.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TTMU - The problem is that you working with OW is what everyone on this board has read from your wife as the main sticking point for her! Therefore, ignoring the advice that is given just comes across as defensive. It may not be the way in which you want to make TTCD feel safe, yet it is clearly the way she herself has expressed is the most important way to make her feel safe and heard.

You could at least look around for another job. Or make a plan that in a year you will change jobs. That you will do some kind of further certification in your field so that you could change jobs. Really, making any steps to get get away from working with the other woman would be huge.

[This message edited by Missymomma at 11:48 AM, August 1st (Thursday)]


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
libertyrocks
♀ Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Samantha. You learn to MAKE it happen. My fWH used to work at a bar. Where cash, alcohol and women were readily available. He got a new job once we started real R. New job, new phone, new car, no drinkinng, IC/MC/AA/12 step were all requirements if I took him back.

Yes, he took a cut in pay, but it was either that job or me. You know, I don't want to drive and hour to work and drive an hour and a half home and not see my kids. But, that's what I have to do. I wasn't looking for a KISA. I just wanted an equal, a partner. Sometimes, you have to do things you don't want to do, but they're the "right" decisions.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 11:59 AM, August 1st (Thursday)]


Me-BW 35. STBXH-35,active alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 little boys. M 6yrs T13.
Year+ false R & TT from Dday1 Nov 2012 IEA - Feb 2014 count at 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) for 3 years that I know of.
Filed for D.

Posts: 816 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thing is, TCD has been very clear on the forum as to what would help her feel safe, and that is for you not to be working 2 doors down from your AP. She does not feel safe. And you're waiting for her to just change your mindset instead of being proactive and getting a new job. You're not willing to feel "uncomfortable" monetarily in order for your wife to feel safe in her marriage after prolonged abuse by you. Now that you've changed you think that should be enough, but its not. Every day you are mere feet away from the woman who helped destroy your marriage. She will never feel safe until you are away from there. until you accept that, you will have this limbo constantly.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 1993 | Registered: Feb 2012
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TTMU,

You keep justifying your job instead of addressing issues like the following:

Why do you say you 'hav(e) everything else we want in life' when you clearly don't?

Nor have you addressed the issue of where you'll find the time to rebuild yourself and your relationship, and help TCD and the kids rebuild, when you're working tons of overtime.

That's just a sample of the issues that need attention but aren't getting any, because you keep justifying keeping your job.

Man, you're not thinking clearly, and I bet you're not dealing with your feelings very effectively, either. That doesn't bode well for your future.

Consider this: Suppose someone says, 'TTMU, You're absolutely right.' How does that make it more likely you'll get what you want?


FBH (me) - 65+, FWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together almost 49 (as of January, 2014)
DDay - 12/2010
Almost Recovered
I share my own experience not because I'm a good model but because it's the only experience I know.

Posts: 8912 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If her feelings haven't changed then you have pages of advice on how to help her with them, which involves finding another place to work. If they have changed then you should start by asking her and doing everything in your power to make it happen. If she won't tell you what they are then either go with last known good info or put your best effort into motion.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7107 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Lostinthismess
♀ Member
Member # 39210
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think i understand what you're gettjng at. I understand the feeling if being trapped. I'm a sahm with 5 kids and just bought a second house. It truly is a no win situation. If you sincerely mean it, find a way to give her an out so at least she has a choice. That was huge for me. I felt I couldn't leave even if I wanted to. I was stuck in this marriage. Right up until fwh said if I felt I couldn't stay, he would give me everything and pay for it. And because I had an out, I felt I didn't NEED an out. Does that make sense? I was fixated on how I could leave, right up until I had that figured out. Then I could move on to the next immediate survival need. I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for, but maybe it helps. Best of luck.


Dday- 4/4/13
fwh- harrypotter
'You just keep living, until you are alive again'
'I don't want perfect, I want honest'

Posts: 298 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Ca
OneFootForward
♂ Member
Member # 39136
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, August 1st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am new to the situation. I have not looked at the past posts from prior threads. I know you screwed up and are now owning up. If the current change in you is valid, then the past misrepresentations don't really matter to you looking for a solution in the now.

You make a ton of $$$. I get that. You have a ton of debt, I get that too. You are now stuck in a "Keeping up with the Jones's" and see no way of getting out. The economy sucks and you have job you might not get anywhere else. I understand it.

I read a lot about if you get a D, then keeping your job is better because of number of kids and what you make. Child support. Bills. House. Car. Expenses. OK. Are you getting a D? It is THAT simple. If you are getting a D, keep the job and do what the lawyers line out. Done. End of story.

Working towards an R is like going 'All In' in poker. If you hold anything back, then you are just playing cards. The BS needs to see you are all in. They need to know you are doing EVERYTHING you can to R. If you throw all your cards on the table, try like hell and it does not work out... so be it. BUT, you did not fail for lack of giving it your all. If that means cutting back expenses until you bleed, get a box of band aids. If that means working two jobs, put a pillow in your car. If that means sacrificing your "self worth" on the alter of bankruptcy to save your marriage, pony up!

(Breathe...)

Do you remember what it was like when you first met your spouse? When it felt electric?! When you would stay up all night to talk and not care about tomorrow? When counting the minutes felt like hours, hours felt like days and banish the though of what days apart would feel like. Chances are, back then, you would do (and may have done) whatever it took to win that person. To make them yours. You walked done the aile, saw a judge, made a promise, swore to a higher power and/or took a bended knee to your spouse saying they would be your solitary "forever". Then, you screwed it up. You know what you have to do? You have to get up in the morning and do "whatever it takes" all over again. All the while knowing about the A, working for R and maybe even D. Then you have to do "whatever it takes" the next day, and the next, and the next....

(((TTMU & TCD)))


Me: 42 BS
Her: 41 EMA
Married: 16 years
D-Day#1: 04/17/13
D-Day#2: 05/8/13
Children: 9,5 (girls)
Om: High School Flame
"Marital problems doesn't make someone a cheater just like financial problems doesn't make someone a thief"

Posts: 71 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Mobile, AL
WoundedOpus
♀ Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't read any of your BS posts and I didn't see it actually spelled out in these terms in this thread so I'm unclear on few points...

1. Are you upside down in your mortgage? If you change jobs and take a severe pay cut will you be unable to pay your mortgage? If the answer is yes/no, this would mean defaulting on the house. If this is the situation, has she said point blank she is fine with that?

2. Would the job change make you unable to pay large sums of debt that you can't sell to get out of? You can sell homes if their worth equal to or more than the loan, cars, personal property, etc. I'm talking about equity loans, any other loans, CC, school, etc? If the answer is yes, has she clearly stated that she she is fine with that?

If this is indeed the situation you are in you would have to default on your house, file bankruptcy and lose all credit. This is not something any spouse should ever decide on on their own. This has to be a join decision where both go in with eyes wide open to the full short term and long term ramifications.

- When I worked I made 'X' amount of money. Because of certain circumstances I was making considerably more than the job would normally pay, the hours were set up substantially outside of the norm than the job would be anywhere else and many 'benefits' you would never receive anywhere else. There is zero chance I could replicate this with any other company. So my earning potential is not actually 'X', it's more like 'G'. (These aren't the real figures) I made $60k a year base salary, was a salaried employee with all of the benefits that come with be S (vacation, sick pay, health/life, 401K, consistent pay, etc), but was only required to worked PT hours in the office, was given generous leeway to work from home when needed, and received regular bonuses of $10-$15k per year. Absolutely anywhere else, I would either have to work 40+hours with a capped salary of maybe $40k to be a S employee, or work PT for $25-30k with no benefits and there would be 0 bonus. So my earning potentially is actually $25-30k / $40k, not $70-75k. This is a huge, monumental difference.

-(FT MW @ $7.25hr/$15K yr FT @ $12hr/25K yr -or- PT MW @ $9.5K yr PT $12hr/$15k yr) All of those numbers are before taxes! I have been out of the workplace for over 8 years, so the likelihood of me even getting worst case scenario up there is slim, it would actually be way less. So if I use the MW of $7.25hr or even a higher wage of $12hr = I could try to find a PT job where the hours were only while 3 kids where in school making approx $9.5-15k and have 1 in full time childcare, or I could find a FT job making $15-25k and have 1 in full time childcare, 3 in before/after care. Anyone looked at how much childcare is lately? I won't be getting a job anytime soon...unless we decide me bringing in under $75 bucks a week is worth the kids being in daycare.

I wrote all that out because I totally get what you're trying to say here (outside of any other previous threads), and sometimes things really need to be spelled out and broken down.

These are all HUGE things to consider, and not even remotely a decision you can make on your own. It's one thing to say, "Yes, quit that job no matter what". It's another to say, "Quit your job, default on our house, we'll file for bankruptcy, I'll work practically for free, we'll put the kids in daycare, and we'll decimate our credit; making it beyond difficult to get another house even if it's more affordable or pray that our credit isn't so bad we can't get approved for a rental". And that's all short term issues, long term isn't pretty either.

I'm not saying that option should be off the table, if it's what she's willing to do to have you out of that job, then it's what she's willing to do. I'm just trying to figure out if this is indeed the situation you're in, and if so, that this is what she has point blank said she's ok with. And if she hasn't said that in no uncertain terms, there is absolutely no way you can make that call on your own.

If you divorce, of course it's best for you to keep the higher paying job, not just for you but for her...again, that is her decision. If it were me and I was contemplating divorce, I would not want you to quit.

I can completely see why she feels trapped.

1. R. Keep job. Live with OW working there.
2. R. Change job. Massive life/living/financial changes.
3. D. Keep job. Better CS/SS. Better living arrangement for kids.
4. D. Change job. Worse CS/SS. Worse living arrangement for kids.

And that is a Shit Sandwich for sure. She's trapped because there is no right answer, it's having to choose between the lesser of 4 evils.

Now, if I'm WAY off base and a job change would hurt but not break you, then disregard my entire post above.

If you can still afford your house or could sell and break even, if you could then afford your debt without filing for bankruptcy and it just comes down to living tighter, then that's a whole other story. And a job change, no matter the pay cut, should start looking like a better option.

1. R. Keep job. Live with OW working there.
2. R. Change Job Downgraded/altered lifestyle.
3. D. Keep job. Better CS/SS. Better living arrangement for kids.
4. D. Change job. Worse CS/SS. Downgraded/altered lifestyle for kids.

This is still a Shit Sandwich, while it's not quite as putrefied as the other one, she would understandably still feel trapped...and it's a terrible feeling!

I'm the BS. My situation is similar enough that I can completely relate to your wife's feelings here. I've been choking down my own SS for over 5 years. FWH still works at the same place and so does MCOW, although interaction is minimal it is horrible for me. FWH has not quit/changed jobs because I chose a shit sandwich with mayo over a shit sandwich with cheese. While I've said, "You should quit that job!", I know I'm not willing to live with the consequences of my action to ask him to, so I don't really mean it...what I'm really saying is, "D*mn you for putting me in a position where these are my only options. D*mn you for putting me in the position where no matter what option I choose I feel like I'm settling. D*mn you for putting me in the position where every option open to me will hurt me and my children. D*mn you for making the choice to take the only option I really want, away from me."

Again, maybe I'm way off and this isn't the lay of the land for you two...


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
lost_in_toronto
♀ Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will stay away from discussions about your work; I am unsure about the details and it's obviously a sticky point right now.

As for how to help TCD when she says she IS trapped -

I felt like that, too. We lived far away from my family and I had no idea what I would do if reconciliation didn't work out. It seemed very daunting, selling our house and moving across the country by myself. I was so fragile that the thought of such a huge move was scary. Additionally, I was just starting grad school and was going to be spending a lot of time away from home. I felt trapped between a bunch of different rocks and hard decisions.

How my WS made me feel better was by talking to me about what our solutions would be to all those hard spots. We had concrete plans in place like:

1. He would continue to help me financially through grad school no matter what decision I made.
2. He would continue to pay my medical and dental through grad school no matter what decision I made.
3. If we ended the relationship, we would sell the house and split the proceeds so I would have money in the bank. Also, I didn't have to worry about him living in our first home with another person, something that was really important to me at the time.
4. He would help me move back to the west coast, and pay for the move as well.

With these (and other) agreements in place, I was able to table a lot of my fears. Instead of feeling trapped, I could feel the possibilities in both directions. If we R'd we would keep on going the way we do; if we didn't R I knew what my options would be.

So how about sitting down with TCD and asking her for a list of her most urgent worries about the future, in R or not in R? And then helping to draft a concrete plan so she knows that she has a path forward no matter what she chooses?

This might include what she could expect from you financially, how you would split assets and that big debt, how you would support her in her search for a job, with the kids, with...you name it.

Then she can take a deep breath and refocus on healing and figuring out what she wants.


Me: BS/38
Him: WS/36
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 13 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1621 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
TXwifemom
♀ Member
Member # 37945
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, August 2nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you be better off financially paying alimony and child support?

Posts: 231 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: texas
hopefullromantic
♀ Member
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, August 3rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think many, if not most of us betrayeds feel "trapped" for a variety of reasons. Your analogy, TTMU, of the shit sandwich is a an excellent one. That's exactly how it feels. Here is something to consider though. The bottom line is that your W is still with you right now because she wants to be, not because of all the other external factors that make leaving difficult. "Difficult" is a far cry from impossible.

All of this means that, for now at least, your wife wants to stay. She feels trapped because she wants to stay, but she might not like the fact that she wants to stay. She likely feels that she is selling out her soul for choosing to stay with someone who could do such a disrespectful thing as cheat. What you need to do then is convince her every single day that her decision to stay is a good one. And you do this consistently for years. Probably forever. That is your new reality.

The days I feel trapped are usually the days I don't feel my H is all in on R. Even though he has made some great sacrifices (like leaving his job), there are still days where what he does is not enough. A minor selfish act on his part for instance, which would have, previous to the A, just annoyed me, is now perceived as him not really loving me after all. Not fair, but that is often my perceived reality now. This gets better with time, but really, it can take very little to make me question his commitment and thoughts of leaving will crop up again.

Although my H did a lot to make me feel safe again, he never did all of the things I had asked for in R. Maybe if he had I would be farther along in my healing, but then again maybe not. All's I can tell you is that I still harbor resentment for what he has not done. If you have not done all that your W has asked of you, maybe that should be your next step, TTMU.


It's not really a fairy tale 'till the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain

Posts: 1715 | Registered: Oct 2007
Baldeagle
♂ New Member
Member # 40194
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Leaving a job that brings much needed income is kind of crazy. My wife refused to leave her job that never provided for the family where OM worked until I moved permanently. She got a job near my current home.
Got into an argument because she thought it was okay to lie & keep secrets while in R. She quit her new better paying job with possibility of advancement because of an argument,abandoned her family & moved in with her mother who supports her.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Aug 2013
PinkJeepLady
♀ Member
Member # 37575
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are asking how you can help and comfort TCD?
Be the best possible man/husband you can. Be kind, considerate and respectful. Listen, listen and listen to TCD at all times. Validate her feelings. Let her know 24/7 how you feel about her as a woman and mother of your beautiful children. Be humble.
$$$ my friend means nothing when you lose everything that is important, you lovely wife and daughters. My WH too had to make a very difficult job decision. I too know all about debt and nice incomes. Please get help communicating about this decision. Who can help you two with it? Religious leader or MC? Whatever you decide, please decide TOGETHER! Be willing to compromise for the good of your marriage. Give TCD all the space and/or closeness she needs!
I want to share with you both that after my WH made the difficult job decision, one that we both agreed with after much discussion, amazing things have been happening. A new job with sweet benefits opened up and we both have a feeling of relief that no amount of $$$ can buy. We got rid of some material things that we realized weren't tied to our happiness.
I like your name "time to man up", now IS the time, you can do this. Please consider that you need to make TCD your partner in this. Respect and love her no matter what happens. I am wishing you BOTH the best!


Me: BW-54. Him-FWH 54. DDay June 1st 2012 cheating with prostitutes overseas
R-ing
"Not everything that counts is counted. Not everything that is counted counts." Albert Einstein

Posts: 459 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Out West
Topic Posts: 38
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