Stay and have OW in our life indefinitely, but having everything else we want in life?
The job is only part of that.
OK. You've identified a hard-to-replicate sitch at work. Now identify the problems with your life. Work with TCD to identify the problems in your relationship and in her life.
Then start solving them.
But with lots of OT, how will you have the time and energy to rebuild yourself and your relationship? Changing jobs won't guarantee R will succeed for you, but this job may very well ensure R will fail. This is meant as an observation, not as an attack.
My FWH stayed in his job (he was the boss) after our first DDay. Because...money. His AP had been an employee and I didn't know about his other affairs at that point.
Then, DDay2 came, and, he was fired for sexual harassment (trying to have another affair with another employee who did not reciprocate) and his 3 other affairs came out as well that I had no idea about, also with employees.
Clearly...his job was an issue, him being the boss, was an issue. He was then unemployed for 4 months. Our livelihood and security was gone.
However, he did get another job, where he is a manager, but not the boss. He makes less money, but...we've adjusted. We've made cuts in areas. We have 5 children and I homeschool so I still stay home. We've changed our lifestyle, but the things we've GAINED are huge. Sure we don't get to "play" as much. However, our marriage and our family life is significantly better.
I didn't rock the boat after DDay1 and let him stay at his job. And devastating consequences happened. However, in time, those consequences actually made him hit bottom and made life so much better.
If *I* were you...the emotional safety of your wife is far more important than money. Make lifestyle changes. Because ultimately...your life will benefit. Is it hard? Yes, but is it worth it? YES.
Former 80s Icon wishful thinking
You asked for ways to comfort your wife while she make her decision on how to move forward...and you say you want to R. You know this job is a huge problem for her. Why not be proactive and look for another job..right now..before she make that decision..because she may just decide to D based on your refusal to leave your job.
Yes..she is trying to decide...but I bet your actions during this time will help her in whether she chooses R or D.
You looked up OW online a while back. Why? You have chosen not to respond to this question...which is your prerogative...but I can promise you TCD hasn't forgotten. I would imagine finding that out just reinforced her need for you to leave that job.
You say you need this job because you have kids..and you want to provide a certain lifestyle for them. I get that. I understand they will suffer consequences if you take a pay cut. But won't they suffer consequences if mom and dad ..and they have to spend every other weekend at dad's?
[This message edited by confused615 at 9:43 AM, August 1st (Thursday)]
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
I am not changing jobs. My BW has made me working here a boundary she will not live with.
I'm not going to put the rest of it there, but those were your words less than 6 months back, TTMU. You spent several posts there explaining why.
Arguing about this stuff is one of the ways dealing with the rest of the affair gets buried. Okay, you make a lot of money and it's going to be hard to find another job that pays as well. You have laid out that situation in nearly every thread you have started. Are you looking for sympathy or validation? Because riding it out in hopes things improve probably isn't going to be the solution you want.
Not trying to be antagonistic here, really.
You could at least look around for another job. Or make a plan that in a year you will change jobs. That you will do some kind of further certification in your field so that you could change jobs. Really, making any steps to get get away from working with the other woman would be huge.
[This message edited by Missymomma at 11:48 AM, August 1st (Thursday)]
Yes, he took a cut in pay, but it was either that job or me. You know, I don't want to drive and hour to work and drive an hour and a half home and not see my kids. But, that's what I have to do. I wasn't looking for a KISA. I just wanted an equal, a partner. Sometimes, you have to do things you don't want to do, but they're the "right" decisions.
[This message edited by libertyrocks at 11:59 AM, August 1st (Thursday)]
You keep justifying your job instead of addressing issues like the following:
Why do you say you 'hav(e) everything else we want in life' when you clearly don't?
Nor have you addressed the issue of where you'll find the time to rebuild yourself and your relationship, and help TCD and the kids rebuild, when you're working tons of overtime.
That's just a sample of the issues that need attention but aren't getting any, because you keep justifying keeping your job.
Man, you're not thinking clearly, and I bet you're not dealing with your feelings very effectively, either. That doesn't bode well for your future.
Consider this: Suppose someone says, 'TTMU, You're absolutely right.' How does that make it more likely you'll get what you want?
You make a ton of $$$. I get that. You have a ton of debt, I get that too. You are now stuck in a "Keeping up with the Jones's" and see no way of getting out. The economy sucks and you have job you might not get anywhere else. I understand it.
I read a lot about if you get a D, then keeping your job is better because of number of kids and what you make. Child support. Bills. House. Car. Expenses. OK. Are you getting a D? It is THAT simple. If you are getting a D, keep the job and do what the lawyers line out. Done. End of story.
Working towards an R is like going 'All In' in poker. If you hold anything back, then you are just playing cards. The BS needs to see you are all in. They need to know you are doing EVERYTHING you can to R. If you throw all your cards on the table, try like hell and it does not work out... so be it. BUT, you did not fail for lack of giving it your all. If that means cutting back expenses until you bleed, get a box of band aids. If that means working two jobs, put a pillow in your car. If that means sacrificing your "self worth" on the alter of bankruptcy to save your marriage, pony up!
Do you remember what it was like when you first met your spouse? When it felt electric?! When you would stay up all night to talk and not care about tomorrow? When counting the minutes felt like hours, hours felt like days and banish the though of what days apart would feel like. Chances are, back then, you would do (and may have done) whatever it took to win that person. To make them yours. You walked done the aile, saw a judge, made a promise, swore to a higher power and/or took a bended knee to your spouse saying they would be your solitary "forever". Then, you screwed it up. You know what you have to do? You have to get up in the morning and do "whatever it takes" all over again. All the while knowing about the A, working for R and maybe even D. Then you have to do "whatever it takes" the next day, and the next, and the next....
(((TTMU & TCD)))
1. Are you upside down in your mortgage? If you change jobs and take a severe pay cut will you be unable to pay your mortgage? If the answer is yes/no, this would mean defaulting on the house. If this is the situation, has she said point blank she is fine with that?
2. Would the job change make you unable to pay large sums of debt that you can't sell to get out of? You can sell homes if their worth equal to or more than the loan, cars, personal property, etc. I'm talking about equity loans, any other loans, CC, school, etc? If the answer is yes, has she clearly stated that she she is fine with that?
If this is indeed the situation you are in you would have to default on your house, file bankruptcy and lose all credit. This is not something any spouse should ever decide on on their own. This has to be a join decision where both go in with eyes wide open to the full short term and long term ramifications.
- When I worked I made 'X' amount of money. Because of certain circumstances I was making considerably more than the job would normally pay, the hours were set up substantially outside of the norm than the job would be anywhere else and many 'benefits' you would never receive anywhere else. There is zero chance I could replicate this with any other company. So my earning potential is not actually 'X', it's more like 'G'. (These aren't the real figures) I made $60k a year base salary, was a salaried employee with all of the benefits that come with be S (vacation, sick pay, health/life, 401K, consistent pay, etc), but was only required to worked PT hours in the office, was given generous leeway to work from home when needed, and received regular bonuses of $10-$15k per year. Absolutely anywhere else, I would either have to work 40+hours with a capped salary of maybe $40k to be a S employee, or work PT for $25-30k with no benefits and there would be 0 bonus. So my earning potentially is actually $25-30k / $40k, not $70-75k. This is a huge, monumental difference.
-(FT MW @ $7.25hr/$15K yr FT @ $12hr/25K yr -or- PT MW @ $9.5K yr PT $12hr/$15k yr) All of those numbers are before taxes! I have been out of the workplace for over 8 years, so the likelihood of me even getting worst case scenario up there is slim, it would actually be way less. So if I use the MW of $7.25hr or even a higher wage of $12hr = I could try to find a PT job where the hours were only while 3 kids where in school making approx $9.5-15k and have 1 in full time childcare, or I could find a FT job making $15-25k and have 1 in full time childcare, 3 in before/after care. Anyone looked at how much childcare is lately? I won't be getting a job anytime soon...unless we decide me bringing in under $75 bucks a week is worth the kids being in daycare.
I wrote all that out because I totally get what you're trying to say here (outside of any other previous threads), and sometimes things really need to be spelled out and broken down.
These are all HUGE things to consider, and not even remotely a decision you can make on your own. It's one thing to say, "Yes, quit that job no matter what". It's another to say, "Quit your job, default on our house, we'll file for bankruptcy, I'll work practically for free, we'll put the kids in daycare, and we'll decimate our credit; making it beyond difficult to get another house even if it's more affordable or pray that our credit isn't so bad we can't get approved for a rental". And that's all short term issues, long term isn't pretty either.
I'm not saying that option should be off the table, if it's what she's willing to do to have you out of that job, then it's what she's willing to do. I'm just trying to figure out if this is indeed the situation you're in, and if so, that this is what she has point blank said she's ok with. And if she hasn't said that in no uncertain terms, there is absolutely no way you can make that call on your own.
If you divorce, of course it's best for you to keep the higher paying job, not just for you but for her...again, that is her decision. If it were me and I was contemplating divorce, I would not want you to quit.
I can completely see why she feels trapped.
1. R. Keep job. Live with OW working there.
2. R. Change job. Massive life/living/financial changes.
3. D. Keep job. Better CS/SS. Better living arrangement for kids.
4. D. Change job. Worse CS/SS. Worse living arrangement for kids.
And that is a Shit Sandwich for sure. She's trapped because there is no right answer, it's having to choose between the lesser of 4 evils.
Now, if I'm WAY off base and a job change would hurt but not break you, then disregard my entire post above.
If you can still afford your house or could sell and break even, if you could then afford your debt without filing for bankruptcy and it just comes down to living tighter, then that's a whole other story. And a job change, no matter the pay cut, should start looking like a better option.
1. R. Keep job. Live with OW working there.
2. R. Change Job Downgraded/altered lifestyle.
3. D. Keep job. Better CS/SS. Better living arrangement for kids.
4. D. Change job. Worse CS/SS. Downgraded/altered lifestyle for kids.
This is still a Shit Sandwich, while it's not quite as putrefied as the other one, she would understandably still feel trapped...and it's a terrible feeling!
I'm the BS. My situation is similar enough that I can completely relate to your wife's feelings here. I've been choking down my own SS for over 5 years. FWH still works at the same place and so does MCOW, although interaction is minimal it is horrible for me. FWH has not quit/changed jobs because I chose a shit sandwich with mayo over a shit sandwich with cheese. While I've said, "You should quit that job!", I know I'm not willing to live with the consequences of my action to ask him to, so I don't really mean it...what I'm really saying is, "D*mn you for putting me in a position where these are my only options. D*mn you for putting me in the position where no matter what option I choose I feel like I'm settling. D*mn you for putting me in the position where every option open to me will hurt me and my children. D*mn you for making the choice to take the only option I really want, away from me."
Again, maybe I'm way off and this isn't the lay of the land for you two...
“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman
As for how to help TCD when she says she IS trapped -
I felt like that, too. We lived far away from my family and I had no idea what I would do if reconciliation didn't work out. It seemed very daunting, selling our house and moving across the country by myself. I was so fragile that the thought of such a huge move was scary. Additionally, I was just starting grad school and was going to be spending a lot of time away from home. I felt trapped between a bunch of different rocks and hard decisions.
How my WS made me feel better was by talking to me about what our solutions would be to all those hard spots. We had concrete plans in place like:
1. He would continue to help me financially through grad school no matter what decision I made.
2. He would continue to pay my medical and dental through grad school no matter what decision I made.
3. If we ended the relationship, we would sell the house and split the proceeds so I would have money in the bank. Also, I didn't have to worry about him living in our first home with another person, something that was really important to me at the time.
4. He would help me move back to the west coast, and pay for the move as well.
With these (and other) agreements in place, I was able to table a lot of my fears. Instead of feeling trapped, I could feel the possibilities in both directions. If we R'd we would keep on going the way we do; if we didn't R I knew what my options would be.
So how about sitting down with TCD and asking her for a list of her most urgent worries about the future, in R or not in R? And then helping to draft a concrete plan so she knows that she has a path forward no matter what she chooses?
This might include what she could expect from you financially, how you would split assets and that big debt, how you would support her in her search for a job, with the kids, with...you name it.
Then she can take a deep breath and refocus on healing and figuring out what she wants.
All of this means that, for now at least, your wife wants to stay. She feels trapped because she wants to stay, but she might not like the fact that she wants to stay. She likely feels that she is selling out her soul for choosing to stay with someone who could do such a disrespectful thing as cheat. What you need to do then is convince her every single day that her decision to stay is a good one. And you do this consistently for years. Probably forever. That is your new reality.
The days I feel trapped are usually the days I don't feel my H is all in on R. Even though he has made some great sacrifices (like leaving his job), there are still days where what he does is not enough. A minor selfish act on his part for instance, which would have, previous to the A, just annoyed me, is now perceived as him not really loving me after all. Not fair, but that is often my perceived reality now. This gets better with time, but really, it can take very little to make me question his commitment and thoughts of leaving will crop up again.
Although my H did a lot to make me feel safe again, he never did all of the things I had asked for in R. Maybe if he had I would be farther along in my healing, but then again maybe not. All's I can tell you is that I still harbor resentment for what he has not done. If you have not done all that your W has asked of you, maybe that should be your next step, TTMU.