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User Topic: Why also be cruel?
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Over the last week or so I've begun to climb out of my BS fog. I'm so struck by how many WS run the WS playbook to the last letter. Reading everyone else's stories has really helped me understand my situation a lot more fully and soberly.

Because there seem to be such similarities between WSs, I'm wondering if anyone can help me understand this one element I can't seem to get my mind around.

The long and short of it is that I don't understand why a WS, who otherwise never raised his voice or said a cruel word over the years, would go ballistic and lash out at their BS. Why twist the knife?

Looking back over DDays#1-2 (which happened over a 3 week span), I can see now that WS was doing a little fence-sitting but mostly wanted out of the M from the get-go, even if he didn't immediately admit it to himself.

It seems to me that as he realized he didn't want to be in the M anymore, he got increasingly hostile. At first it was just what he called "honesty", which mostly consisted of him expressing that he missed OW (whom he had NCed at my request).

Then it turned into the category of things that "are hard to hear" like that he didn't think he was sorry for what he did.

Then, during our very last conversation (DDay#2), it turned into outright hostility. He tried to come up with every minor infraction I had ever committed, or might be capable of committing, over the last decade. None of it was particularly valid and some of it outright distortion/lies. None of it signaled "dealbreaker". And, frankly, I'm not surprised he had a hard time coming up with stuff because we were pretty happy together. It sounded as if he had harbored some resentments about his money and time over the years but, again, nothing we couldn't have discussed or worked out.

He tried taking cruel stabs at me (for example, about how my going to bed too early "freed up [his] evenings to be with her"). He described what they did together in bed and said that it was more sexually fulfilling. He clumsily tried to manipulate me into not telling his boss what he did when I told him I would resign my position in his office. You get the idea.

I honestly thought for several weeks after DDay that he had snapped like some of his other family members and I would get a call from his brother telling me he had to check himself into a facility somewhere. It was that bad.

I guess I should add that it was also a little schizophrenic in that he would occasionally breakdown sobbing about how much he missed me in the middle of his little tirades. It was almost like he had pumped himself up to really let me have it, but would occasionally lose his nerve when I didn't engage.

And, again, nothing I had *ever* seen from him before.

On top of the things he said to me directly, once I told him I wanted NC until mid-summer, he went *insane* on FB. I'm not 100% sure it was directed at me, but my IC says it was, if only unconsciously. He tried to make sexualized jokes to my girlfriends. He posted a status messages wishing a few of them happy birthday and calling them "amazing women" or something like that, yet he totally ignored my bday a few days later. He knew I just got a new car and started posting tons of memes and comments about how bad cars are for the environment. He manically posted any article he found remotely interesting (at one point he posted an article from the NYT just because he said liked the illustration that accompanied it). One friend described it to me as "watching a nervous breakdown in slow motion". The whole time he kept up our photos, although he quietly changed his relationship status (he just removed it).

When he didn't contact me after mid-summer, I finally unfriended him. I felt like his posts were abusive or, at least, I didn't want to feel abused anymore, regardless of his intentions. Reports from mutual friends is that a lot of the FBing stopped at that point.

A few days later, he took himself off of our phone plan without saying anything to me or giving me his new number.

Our lease was up in July and I also suspect he moved (one of his reasons for the A/D/S was that I "forced" him to live in a place that was more $$ than he wanted). No forwarding address.

All of his actions say to me that he wants me as far away from him as possible.

Is that what that cruelty was about? Making sure that I'm totally gone? Given that the A alone wasn't enough for me to tell him to hit the road at first, did he do all of this additional crap so that there was *no way* I could ever want to take him back?

What I don't understand is, if you hate me that much and want out that badly, why lose your mind over it on top of crushing my soul? If you don't give two hoots about me anymore, why not at least hold your temper for the most part (like I did) and try to create a more mature and healing ending? Why not just tell me that the year apart showed him that he no longer wants to be married and that he needs to S/D in order to be fair to me.

Why run away now and hide now? How hard is it to send an email saying you're taking yourself off the phone plan, here is my new [even just office!] phone number in case it's necessary? How hard is it to send a note to my parents or the mutual friends who have reached out to him to say that he's sorry for what he's done and that he loved them and have a nice life? Why leave it up to me to have to comfort my crying mother or go visit our goddaughters alone to help their parents explain that they are never going to see "Uncle WS" again?

I just don't get it. I mean, I don't get having an A in the first place and not just talking to your spouse. But let's just put that to the side for a minute. If you've already mentally and emotionally checked out of the marriage by the time your WS finds out, why be cruel to them on top of it when it wasn't in your nature to begin with?


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
Spelljean
♀ Member
Member # 35624
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I have learned, the cruelty is a way to deflect blame onto the BS, instead of on themselves where it belongs. He acts justified in being angry at you so he can thereby justify his horrible actions to himself. A sort of "its all your fault" deal. Its common among waywards.

I'm so sorry you find yourself here. My WH also recently told me how much he misses OW. Its beyond cruel.


WH: 41
me: BS, 45
Together 18 1/2 years, married 17
DDAY 8/2/12
OW: EA- friend of 4 months
Status: separated

Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2012 | From: California
TrustGone
♀ Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know other than they are trying to put the blame on someone other than themselves. It is very cruel to be treated the way your WH has treated you. He is extemely broken and you can't fix him. It appears that all you can do is file for D for abondonment (if that's a cause) and go on with your life. You know that
he undoubtably is through with the marriage, so what choice do you really have at this point. Just consider yourself lucky that he is not around making your life even more miserable. (((HUGS)))


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

try to create a more mature and healing ending?

You expect magical closure, when you freely post how he dumped his fiance before the wedding and refused to speak to her again?

Don't wait for an apology; unmet expectations only lead to disappointment.

"Happy Endings" are an oxymoron.

“There are no happy endings.
Endings are the saddest part,
So just give me a happy middle
And a very happy start.”
~Shel Silverstein, Every Thing on It



"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He never had to see her again. They had totally different jobs and, once he moved, the only time he'd run into her is if he attended something like his reunion.

He'll see me every year at professional conferences. Our mentors are best friends. Our mutual friends are also our colleagues. I will be applying to a job where he works in a couple of years when they do a search because to not do so would be career suicide. We have multiple, mutual projects for work that are still pending. And, he owes my family money.

I guess I just think that it's one thing to dump your 2 years college girlfriend/fiancé whom you never even bought a ring.

Then there is your partner (personal and professional) of the last decade...

But, if he's warped enough, maybe you're right...

... but it still doesn't help me understand why he was *SO* mean to me at the end. We never even really had a fight before this happened. We hadn't had a disagreement in three years. The worst fight we ever had I got mad he wouldn't help me clean on a Sunday, so I took his mail and started throwing letter after letter onto the floor in his office. He walked in on that, we looked at each other and started to laugh. Worst fight we ever had right there and we used to still laugh about it!

That's what makes this so weird.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 6:57 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
hardtimesinlife
♀ Member
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seems like he doesn't know how to end something in a mature way. Like he's doing some sick version of the 180 so he doesn't have to face any emotional pain.

You sound so healthy in your thinking.
edited to change the laugh to a smile and to add

[This message edited by hardtimesinlife at 7:33 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 5957 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
Pippy
♀ Member
Member # 16482
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Google "Wayward Spouse re-writing History" and you will get tons of info. It's right out of the WS handbook.

He is acting out of guilt for what he has done to you. Re-writing history is his way of justifying, in his own mind, why he cheated.

They commonly say stupid things. My ex complained that I didn't wear more colourful clothes and didn't go on his one seater racing snowmobile with him.

You didn't do anything wrong. The real guilty ones go NC. My ex moved 3000 miles away with no address or phone information, like yours. Haven't seen or heard from him since. Sound familiar?

He may be trying to goad you into filing for D so he can tell everyone YOU divorced him, making him the victim.

Don't fall into his trap. Just keep ignoring his foolishness and stay on the high road.

Your other post talked about how you never fought. We didn't either. SO guess what. He and the OW argue all the time and they've lived together for 9 years.

You will get to a point some day when none of this matters any more so try not to take it to heart. He doesn't matter.

[This message edited by Pippy at 7:29 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


I divorced him because I didn't like his girlfriend.
M 30 yrs.


Posts: 9584 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: East of the Rockies
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG, Pippy. That is totally what is happening to me.

He even walked me into breaking up with *him* first, technically. I now realize that it was so he could go to his boss and claim I was the one that wanted S/D (so when I quit my job there, he could act like the innocent party).

Unfortunately for him, he began to miss me, which he didn't plan on. So he tried what became False R.

They commonly say stupid things. Mt ex complained that I didn't wear more colourful clothes and didn't go on his one seater racing snowmobile with him.

Mine did something similar. Right before DDay we went to get ice cream. He wanted to know why I didn't wear makeup to stand in line. I *still* don't know what the hell was up with that!

My favorite was when he said that I "isolated" him. I left him out on the opposite coast for a year by himself so he could adjust to his new job and write his dissertation without me lurking around and distracting him. I even encouraged his friendship with OW because I didn't want him to be lonely and, as far as I knew, they just used to go to Target together on the weekends.

When his bike was stolen, I even suggested he ask her if she could drive him to and from work that week. (*Facepalm*).

I'm starting to see why people say that you just need to give up trying to understand...


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

“The idea that I can't share my problems with other people makes me not give a shit about their problems.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters

The short answer? Its being passive a aggressive. *We*had to build up a monster in *our* minds to justify slaying it when in fact the monster was *us*.

Instead of coming to my H I went to someone else. I had this problem where I didn't like confrontation or conflict. I'd keep shit bottled up inside and appear happy and cheerful on the outside. When I finally would say something to the person who slighted me, they didn't know where all this shit was coming from that I'd unleash on them. I couldn't figure out an appropriate way to state my feelings. I'd let myself get run over by this person and that and not say anything and would build resentment then explode and it would be inappropriate and too-low of verbal blows hacking away at relationships feeling like I had no one to talk to. No one who would understand or care.


For months I kept thinking that something was going to happen, I just didn't know what it would be. Then I met the AP and had an A.

"When we don't know who to hate, we hate ourselves". -Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 7:38 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had this problem where I didn't like confrontation or conflict. I'd keep shit bottled up inside and appear happy and cheerful on the outside. When I finally would say something to the person who slighted me, they didn't know where all this shit was coming from that I'd unleash on them.

I worry about this. It's a helpless feeling for me. I think it's clear he had resentments that he kept to himself and he went with the flow. If he had voiced them or indicated that he was suffering in any way, I would have attended to it.

Even today sometimes I worry that his NC might be another manifestation of a fear of conflict and confrontation. I get that he might be scared to talk to me, but I'm still the same person. I'm wounded and angry, but I would still be civil with him. All he has to do is be honest and treat me with respect, and he'll get the same.

*I* resent that his odd behavior reflects poorly on me. Tonight a mutual friend called to check in and I had to give the update: "he changed his phone number and I have no idea where he is." I know it's not about me, etc etc... but he's got me living in such a freaky twilight zone. I hate it. Why can't he just be a human?


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Problem is though, he can't change until he's ready. If he's doing it for anyone else it won't be authentic and it won't last. He has to WANT to commit. He has to know he NEEDS this more than the air in his lungs.

When he learns how to step out of his comfort zone, knowing its to better himself and his M, he will more likely do it more often with less prodding. Its still a long process and everyone works at their own pace. Although this may have deflated you, know that right now you can work on you. Focus your energy on your own healing. Make yourself happy. He'll eventually get the picture that you don't rely upon him for your sole happiness.

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 8:35 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*I* resent that his odd behavior reflects poorly on me.

His behavior reflects his character; Your behavior reflects your character. You can't control him, or his apologies ... and believing otherwise is a path toward toxic shame.

Tonight a mutual friend called to check in and I had to give the update: "he changed his phone number and I have no idea where he is."

You control your narrative.
What the heck happened to: "My family has a L and everything is drawn up....[I appreciate you support and friendship since this feels] just too overwhelming given that we're on opposite sides of the country. I prefer to focus on moving forward. Let me tell you what's going on in my new job ..."

Or try the direct approach: "I appreciate you calling to check up on me. At this time I'm not discussing my private life, but rest assured that I'm moving forward with the support of my IC and the strength of my family."

Either takes ownership of your narrative.

Let your mutual friend contact WH for his dramatization of your breakup.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 9:41 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm... not bad, ladies_first. I like it!


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
huRtZ413
♀ Member
Member # 39214
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was a runner in past relationships to all I can say was my reason was confrontation I'm hella scared of it . never have I broken up with anyone face to face its really hard because I felt I'd be inclined to stay if I saw then cry and later be ugly toward then because I stayed so I'd split without a word . I probably got a lot of guys who hate me now or hated me for a while I doubt I held lots of importance to them but still it's messed up. I even broke up with my WH over email when we were dating cause I couldn't handle the questions and yelling that I knew or at least thought I knew would follow . so I guess in still a runner I really don't know I think now if I felt I couldn't so this anymore I may actually be able to do it this time but I still feel the scary nervous feeling . I'm a coward I guess the heat of ending something gets my palms sweating heart racing feeling faint and I can't seem to hold my balance it may be a FOO I haven't looked into god knows I had a crazy dysfunctional home life with parents that knew absolutely nothing about relationships



me_BW
him_WH


I'M ON THE FENCE



Posts: 278 | Registered: May 2013
EtTuBrute
♀ New Member
Member # 39792
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MY WH was most angry with me during confrontation. I read about when people are caught in lies, they put up defenses and the instinct is fight or flight response. He did both at the same time! I couldn't believe the anger. He was always mild mannered before. And then I thought, I'm the BS, shouldn't I be the angry one? I was in too much shock at the time. So much so, I couldn't believe how calm I was, and no tears came. I was losing my husband, and I couldn't shed one tear. My tears and anger came days later.

The other angry outburst came from him in defending his entitlement to have his "friendship" with the OW.

I didn't get as much of the blameshifting as others have, although he would ask me questions like why I didn't get along with his mother. That issue came long after the EA was already in place, and had more to do with his helping her and not me. I would say the WS is trying to justify the affair by blameshifting, and by doing it in an angry tone, it makes the BS feel helpless.

If it occurs again, tell him he is being disrespectful in using that tone of voice, and you refuse to be treated like that. Then leave the room.


BW 41 WH 47 LTA/LD: EA 9 yrs / PA 14 days; 4 Kids: 7,5,2,2 OW: XGF 45 DDAY: 10-8-12 Broke NC 4 times, no known OW response.Began R 7/19/13
If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker. - Rounders

Posts: 32 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I couldn't believe the anger. He was always mild mannered before. And then I thought, I'm the BS, shouldn't I be the angry one? I was in too much shock at the time. So much so, I couldn't believe how calm I was, and no tears came. I was losing my husband, and I couldn't shed one tear. My tears and anger came days later.

The other angry outburst came from him in defending his entitlement to have his "friendship" with the OW.

Ditto all over the place. I actually got "I don't know why you think OW is so bad. I mean, she apologized if she played any role in any of this." Are you SERIOUS????

And, after DDay#1, he started acting so crazy angry that I did the same: shut down out of shock. The only time I cried was when he said that "you freed up my evenings" line. Other than that, I stayed "calm" because it was all I could do to just take in what was happening to me.

I STILL don't quite know how I had the strength to demand S and NC him. But I think it was just a "flight" instinct.

And, on that note, EtTuBrute, WS and I haven't spoken since DDay#2 exactly 3 mos ago this past weekend. I'm scared to contact him because I'm afraid to know what he's doing now as far as OW is concerned and it's taken all of my strength, IC and help from friends and family to get myself on my feet over the last few weeks. With a new job starting at the end of the month, I fear what contact with him will do to me.

I told him when I asked for NC that he could contact me in mid-July at the earliest. Honestly, I expected him to. I thought that, at least, he would want to apologize for the things he said to me. I expected him to at least realize that he had been grossly out of line and that I didn't deserve half of what he said.

He didn't.

Then I started to worry that I should be the one to break NC because he does have a history of being conflict avoidant. But then I played back all of the betrayals in my head and instead I had a moment of anger and unfriended him from FB. A few days later he took himself off of the phone plan. And here we are. Still not talking.

It is inevitable that I will run into him at a professional gathering in the years to come. Other than that, there is no reason for us to talk directly ever again.

When I think back to all of our good memories and years together, I just don't understand...


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ws became very cruel too. He said we didn't even have a marriage..don't know where that came from. First time ever criticized my appearance..that one really hurt. Called me old...ow is 6yrs younger than me but looks 6yrs older. He also tried to convince me that I wanted out told me I was unhappy all the time.
I guess they have to be mean and trump up issues to make it ok to cheat..give them a reason so to speak. All I know is I felt like I was living with satan.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..divorced slut who prefers committed men, specializing in befriending and bopping the fathers of her kids team mates
Status..%&$#@?$

Posts: 3946 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did he ever come around and apologize to you, Ostrich?


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 2:42 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope, no apology for his assholeness. I really don't think he even remembers things he said. He was really out of control back then. He has selective memory. First time he ever called me the c word. He will even say now that he hates that word
and if anyone ever called his daughters that word he would beat the shit out of them..

Phantom..u mentioned he got meaner when you would confront. Mine did too. When he felt backed in a corner, he came out like a crazy man. I think he was in a pressure cooker..ow and me..too much. He doesn't handle stress well amyway so he's not really designed for an A..prob explains 3 er trips for false alarm heart attacks.

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 2:47 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)]


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..divorced slut who prefers committed men, specializing in befriending and bopping the fathers of her kids team mates
Status..%&$#@?$

Posts: 3946 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought that, at least, he would want to apologize for the things he said to me. I expected him to at least realize that he had been grossly out of line and that I didn't deserve half of what he said.

He didn't.

You deserve an apology, but any time spent waiting of hoping for one will likely be wasted.

I hesitate to post this to you, fearing it may enhance your entitlement, but here's what Gary Chapman has to say about The Five Languages of Apology:
Expressing Regret - "I'm sorry." "I feel badly about what I did."
Accepting Responsibility - "I was wrong." "It was my fault."
Making Restitution - "What can I do to make it right?"
Genuinely Repenting - "I'll try not to do that again."
Requesting Forgiveness - "Will you please forgive me?"

Look at your STBXH's actions: He had sex with another woman.
Now look at what actions are missing: NO regret; NO responsibility; NO restitution; NO repentance; NO forgiveness or absolution.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

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