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User Topic: BW Thinks More Children Can Never Happen... I Don't Agree
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning, all. I'm wondering how you would address this issue. My BW (TattoodChinaDoll) feels that because of my actions and our current situation there is no chance to have any more children.

Some of you may be aware that we lost a child earlier this year (it's in her signature line, so I'm not giving away any secrets). It was, and remains, a very depressing event in our lives. It continues to, understandably, cause very strong emotions to well up in TCD. I understand how difficult it must be to see pregnant women and babies and have the feeling of wonder and loss slam into her like a freight train; to look at the calendar and realize where you would be in your pregnancy at this point. She is currently in the process of training for a 5k, and is doing incredibly well. I am so very proud of her, she is below the weight she was when we were married ten years ago. She looks FANTASTIC, and I let her know that every day. The problem with that is that she sees this body, and it's not what she wants. She shouldn't be seeing this shrinking waistline... she should be a month from giving birth right now.

I understand all this pain. I really truly do. The issue we have now is that she believes that by the time we straighten things out with us, it will be too late for us to have another baby. But I don't agree. I really do believe that you never know what tomorrow holds. I am not quite 33 and she is 31. If we were just starting our family, I would be more inclined to agree with her, but I do strongly believe that there is still plenty of time to have another child if we wished to do so. I am doing my best to allow her to feel her feelings, not making her feel bad about it, comforting her, being empathetic... But I just don't agree that the door is closed yet. Do any of you have any advice? Thanks for your time.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just turned 32 and I as yet have NO children. I do hope to be a mother one day. The current plan is that I'll be half past 33 when XH and I try to conceive. My own personal "cut-off" (when I will no longer be willing to assume the risk of later-in-life motherhood) is 37. This means we either have two by then and are done, or we have one if it takes longer than anticipated, or we are childless.

There are varying medical opinions out there about later-than-average pregnancies, and there are varying anecdotal results. Some women conceive healthy children into their 40s. Others struggle in their younger years. I haven't been keeping up with your and TCD's story---the last I read she had been posting in the divorce forum, so I don't know where you are in terms of reconciliation---but certainly the time factor is a fair concern of hers. Yet I would say from a completely layperson's opinion, at 31 and already having had children, she probably has plenty of time.

I'm sorry for the loss of your and TCD's prior pregnancy.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can understand TCD's pain. I lost a baby too. It hurts to know that had my child lived, we would have celebrated a 6th birthday this past June. Instead, I remember a death date of October 8th. Four days before my birthday. These dates and memories are engrained in our hearts.

My husband doesn't really understand my pain. And he's said as much. I was "only" a couple weeks pregnant when I lost our child. How could I have formed such a strong feeling for something I'd never felt move or heard a heartbeat? How can I mourn something I never held in my arms? I can't explain it to him. He has learned to love me thru my down times. To let me feel what I feel, hug me, and say, "I'm sorry Aubrie". Nothing more. Don't tell me about focusing on my living kids. Don't tell me life is ok now. Don't give me fluff. We get thru the down times together. With the passing of time, they are fewer and farther between. I'll always remember. I'll probably always hurt. But the pain isn't as searing and blinding as before.

Do any of you have any advice?

Time.

TTMU, she still doesn't trust you. She is faaarrrr away from feeling safe with you. Based on her life the past couple years, she is in self-preservation/protection mode. You may or may not be authentic in your healing. You may or may not betray her again. She is protecting herself by not getting her hopes up. It's a time thing.

Time will tell if you are honest. Time will tell if you are rally changing. Time will tell if you are safe. If and when that happens, then maybe she will feel hope for another child. Maybe.

You have a lot on your plate and I think that convincing her that she's wrong about another child should be the last thing you argue about.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"You can do it!" - R. Schneider


Posts: 5456 | Registered: Nov 2011
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have a lot on your plate and I think that convincing her that she's wrong about another child should be the last thing you argue about.

I do not want to convince her of anything, and I most certainly do not want to argue about it (or anything else!). One of my struggles in helping her through this mess I've created is supporting her when our opinions do not line up. I do my best to assure her that she is entitled to her opinions and her feelings... but so am I, y'know? Before I worked where I am now, I worked in a fertility clinic for almost four years. I saw the losses first hand on a daily basis. I saw the women who came in day after day, month after month, knowing that for them it was likely never going to happen. Insurance had been exhausted, but they trudged on, paying out of pocket hoping and praying that this month is finally the month. And having been so close to this for a relatively long time, I am confident that it is far from a closed door on the possibility of more children. And again, I still believe that you never know what tomorrow holds. Maybe OW will finally be fired like it deserves, or they'll lay us all off, or they'll disperse our department into other parts of the company where OW is far, far away. Or any other number of possible events. You just don't know. Is it a guarantee? Of course not. But it all begins with hard work on our part. I have a lot to fix, I have to make her feel safe again, to have her trust me again.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I just don't agree that the door is closed yet

I agree. I have read your wife's posts and think she can be a victim of some pretty fatalistic thought processes. Hopefully, that's something she can work on.

My youngest was a twin. We lost one at birth. It was the worst thing I've ever been through. I'm a few years older than she is and plan on having one more some day.

Sadly, if she's determined to feel this way there's not much you can do about it. Consistent actions on your part. Transparancy. Honesty. Comfort. I'm sure that loss was painful for you as well. Don't forget to heal yourself too.

My ex was great through our struggle. He was also devastated. We worked together. Sometimes the men get lost in this equation because it's "decided" they don't feel if they don't show it the way it's "supposed" to be shown.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry for your loss.

Your current situation is going to take time, prayers and love.....

....It took about three years after my wife and I lost our forth child for me to actually grieve the loss.

My wife grieved hard and was depressed until she became pregnant again.
Our next birth was just as scary, we ended up back in the hospital the day after delivering and then spent several weeks watching our newborn fight spinal meningitis. It was enough to send us over the edge.

We spent another year as germophobic parents....

It's hard for me to believe but we now have seven kids.

My wife and I had no intention of having more kids after our fifth. Yet 10 years later we adopted our beautiful daughter from China. She was seven yrs old when we brought her home. Then a year later we went back to China and brought another beautiful little four yr old home.

The last two adoption processes occurred three years after my infidelity.

Anythings possible!


Just be patient and give your wife and yourself time to grieve.

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She shouldn't be seeing this shrinking waistline... she should be a month from giving birth right now.

Considering this, don't you think that this is a highly inappropriate time to be discussing having more children?

I agree that the only thing that is going to help this situation is time and compassion. Betrayal, losing a child.... these things change your world outlook. We can only hope that new, positive experiences bring new hope and fresh ideas.

I was sure I was never having another child with Crazz, and I'm closer to considering it... albeit 2.5 years later. (We have a lot to work out before we hit "go", but I've stepped out of "it's impossible" and that's something.)

TCD is speaking from a place of deep pain. Help her heal the pain and she won't see the world through eyes that sting quite as much.


For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot

Posts: 14698 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh I have so much to say, and I am typing on my damn phone.

First, I have been through a m/c. It's hell. You have so much grief and a soup of hormones on top of that. It is crazymaking.

Second, my H and I almost divorced last year. Before that, he went back and forth on whether he wanted to try for a second child. It was very hard for me to get my hopes up and get excited about the possibility of another child and then have him change his mind. And one of the hardest things for me to accept last year was the likelihood that I would never have another child. I had to grieve that loss, because hope was too dangerous for me. And I went through that process, and accepted it.

Things can change. We are doing great now and plan to start TTC next month. But I HAD to go through that process of letting go of my hopes. Maybe TCD needs to do that too. Good luck to you both.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6160 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
5674emt
♀ Member
Member # 40012
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had my first child when I was 39 and she was perfect. I had my second child at 41 and she was Stillborn at 37weeks. I had my third child at 44 and she was perfect. Encourage your W to have an honest talk with her OB/GYN before she gives up on children.
I am so glad I did. Even with losing our middle daughter, the blessing of my 2 living girls has been so worth it.


BS 53
WH 44
M 14 years at time of DD
2 young daughters
DD 12-8-12
OW=Xfriend
A-3 YEARS and her husband was an accomplice.
In R, IC, & MC Since 1 week after DD. On the mend with the help of God, Friends and Family.

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Central FL
hopeful10
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Prior to Dday, my WH talked about more children. When he cheated, I felt like he took that away from me. There was no way in Hell I would ever in a million years consider bringing a child into a marriage with someone I trusted so little and with the threat that he would cheat on me again or not be able to hack R, or I couldn't forgive and we eventually divorced. TCD has experienced A LOT of loss, loss of a baby, loss of trust, loss of the man she thought she married. This takes time to work through. A lot of time.

Be patient, listen to her, tell her you are sorry for the pain you have caused. Tell her you aren't ready to give up on the idea just yet; but don't tell her she is wrong for believing right now that she won't have any more children. Right now, that is her reality and she needs time to work through it.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 352 | Registered: Dec 2012
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Prior to Dday, my WH talked about more children. When he cheated, I felt like he took that away from me. There was no way in Hell I would ever in a million years consider bringing a child into a marriage with someone I trusted so little and with the threat that he would cheat on me again or not be able to hack R, or I couldn't forgive and we eventually divorced.

I'd swear that TCD had created a second profile and posted this. I understand what you're saying. I have been doing my best to assure her that she isn't wrong to feel how she does, just that I don't see things the same way. I love her very much. I took a large portion of her life away for no good reason without her permission, and I'd hate for this to be lost as well. Obviously it may ultimately work out that way, but again... You just never know, right?


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
TXwifemom
♀ Member
Member # 37945
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopeful10, I'm on the same page. I couldn't live with myself bringing another child into this mess. I feel bad enough that I brought my other two into it unknowingly. And I think this too is part of the WS fog. I don't feel like my WS really understands how much guilt I have over bringing children into this. And to be clear, I didn't know until my kids were 1 and 3.

He did this to them (and me) without thinking of them.

Meanwhile, I have to think of them every day to stay. And worse, I have to actually be a mature adult and learn to love the snake that bit me.

So hell no. I would never do that to another kid. But he did. Knowingly.

Sigh.

Because he loved himself more than the three of us.

[This message edited by TXwifemom at 1:53 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 231 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: texas
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TimeToManUp

I am a BS I chose not to have any more children with my WS. It was my choice and one I have no regrets. I strongly feel I made the right choice then. I have 2 children two boys. Prior to his affairs. I could post my whys but those are mine and could hurt some WS here and that is not my intentions.
Just be prepared for the no more kids and supportive of her decisions.. She is trying to make the best decision for her current children and self. In 4 years she may feel different.
Good luck.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeful10
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TTMU, no you never know; but this seems to me like one of those moments where you can be right, or you can be happy. Yes, you guys could have more kids later, yes her feelings may change, yes she could end up accidentally pregnant next month (happened to me); but that is not where she is or how she sees it right now. Just be there for her, unless she is suggesting that one or both of you take drastic measures to make it impossible, maybe keep your responses along the lines of "I hope that is not true" and let it go at that.

[This message edited by hopeful10 at 2:41 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)]


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 352 | Registered: Dec 2012
StrongerOne
♀ Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TTMU,
I feel that you should just not argue this topic with TCD, who is in a world of pain. Or try to convince her, or make logical arguments -- no matter how gentle you think you are being, the topic itself is painful.

Acknowledge the pain and the loss with her, but please try to leave your own desire for a child out of it.

I have not had a m/c, but have come close several times to losing our son (inoperable cancer, at present under control) -- people who have said, you can adopt, you can have another...I want to smack them upside the head. It would be worse if my FWH were the one saying these things.

I don't mean this as a 2X4 -- I see that you want to do the right thing. Keep trying!


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Sep 2012
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Stronger-Believe me, I understand her pain. TCD comes to me insisting that "It's too late. We missed our chance. If you had only gotten it sooner, we might have still had time." I only try to let her know that in my view of things, the door is not shut if we were to fully reconcile and had the desire to have more children. And I can confidently say that if I have learned nothing else from SI, it's to never use the "At least you still have..." Phrase when attempting to comfort someone. Last fall a friend's wife was pregnant with twins. One of them was stillborn. At no point did I ever even think about saying to be thankful for what you have. I wrote him what was probably the most profound message I had ever sent to a friend, using the tools I had learned from TCD and SI. He expressed a great deal of gratitude for those words, even writing me back two weeks later to let me know that when he was feeling his lowest, he would go back and reread that message.

God, I feel like that was some self-back-patting... I was really just trying to say that I don't bring up the possibility of more children. Not because I'm not open to it, but because I understand how painful it is for her. Yes, we still have three children, but even if we had 20 kids, this loss would not be diminished. A loss is a loss, right? And conversely, having another child would never replace what we have lost. I just want to help her through this painful time. Thank you again for your kind words. I really am trying.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
Topic Posts: 16

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