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User Topic: Need some insight or I might implode
ShockedErica11
♀ Member
Member # 37550
Flame  Posted: 4:06 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question(s) to ask; WH and I had a Q&A last night that left me agitated and annoyed, and him belligerent and frustrated: he has a problem when I call his bullshit. Or rather I suppose what he refers to as me calling his bullshit and him simply saying that "it's what I think and everytime I say what I think it's either right or wrong."

Okay, laying the continued conversation we had at lunch:

Me: "I call bull because I can usually spot it. If you can't figure out why you allow yourself to be so selfish, how you got to be so selfish and why you do nothing to change the selfishness except to say, "it's what I know." then of course I'm going to be pissed. Or if you say, "I've never had anything so I just wanted to be selfish" so then why did you choose to be an absolute asshole instead of being grateful? Why did you give up when you finally found what you thought was the best? So then you'll say, "I just let the negativity back in", so I'd have to ask why did you let it back in? And you'll say, it's what I've known". At Which point, I call bull because you've had NUMEROUS positive experiences in your life; so negativity is NOT all you've known. You choose to look at it with a victimized standpoint: why?"

***

I always suffer from wondering if I'm a bit too harsh, and he keeps wondering why I just don't accept an "it is what is" kind of answer like: "Why can't it just be what I'm giving you? Why does it always have to be something deeper?"

I usually tell him: "You don't cheat on your spouse and then just say, "Oh well, it is what it is. I cheated because I cheated."

I want to know HOW he got to the point where that became acceptable.

Am I being unreasonable though?

I know the simplest answer is: He cheated because he could and because he wanted to.

My questions, in a nutshell are: how could he want to? How could he give himself that option? Especially when he didn't want to extend the same courtsey or allow me to do anything to make sure this DID NOT become our reality.

However, I am asking you, SI community, am I doing WAY too much? Are the answers he's giving exactly what they are and I'm just digging too unnecessarily deep?

HELP!!!


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
Sadwife222
♀ Member
Member # 40050
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep asking, too. I try to ask more like an investigative reporter so he's not as defensive.
After I get answers, I have questions about the answers. It's my life that went missing and I need to know what was going on when I was shut out.
I also forward him lots of links to this forum with other BS and WS stories and thoughts.
Little by little he is getting it. He read one WS story today and wrote back that he feels just like him and that he was a horrible person and an awful husband and friend to me.
We need to know because for so long, only they and the OW mattered. We need to matter more than they do now or why should we stay?

[This message edited by Sadwife222 at 4:22 PM, August 16th (Friday)]


Me BW, Him WH
DD 4/12/13
TT until 9/18/14

Posts: 134 | Registered: Jul 2013
Bluebird26
♀ Member
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a couple of thoughts based on my own experiences.

He knows the 'true' answers are going to be unacceptable so he is giving you the answers he thinks you want to hear.

He doesn't want to give you the answers, he wants to continue to be selfish and keep the true reasons, because it's his and the OW secret kind of deal, it's like he is going to betray the OW if he tells you the 'truth'.

He is afraid by telling you the truth you will leave.

He doesn't want to acknowledge what he has done, it's not wrong to him. He was trying to make himself happy.

He truly doesn't know why he did what he did. My IC says this is quite common.

If you both are fully committed to R, then he needs to get IC immediately to work through these reasons.

My xwh could never shake the victim mentality, it was always poor me. Even made up stories about his childhood to look like a victim. That he knows no other way BS. In reality from what I know now, I am fairly certain my x is NPD, it's always about him.

((Erica))


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1358 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
PrincessPeach06
♀ Member
Member # 39588
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H recognizes now his narcissistic traits, selfish behavior and how he held on to bitterness and anger toward his parents for 30 years. We talk about it all the time. I do dig and dig and dig and dig. I told him we BOTH need this for healing and understanding to make sure we never travel this road again.

At first it almost always turned into an argument but thankfully after doing some coping skills and cognitive thinking with the therapist we have much better discussions!!


Me (BS): 35
Him (fWS): 36
Married 16 years 6 kids ages 15-6
DDay #1 (EA) July '08
DDay #2 (EA/ONS- different OW) May 15, 2013

Finally this is R 8/14/13

"Forgiving is a journey; the deeper the wound, the longer the journey".


Posts: 299 | Registered: Jun 2013
doesitgetbetter
♀ Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've never had anything so I just wanted to be selfish" Why did you give up when you finally found what you thought was the best

From my experience, these two statements you made very well COULD be the answer to why. He never had anything in his life, so once he finally did (you) he didn't feel he deserved it and had to ruin it because you don't have good things if you don't deserve them. Does he have a terrible self worth? Does he not value himself as a person and think he deserves anything good? It might seem like he does, but have you ever asked him? I only mention this because my H cheated on me for that very reason, he never felt he deserved anything good so once he finally got it he had to find a way to destroy it.

Just a thought, I don't know your WH at all, but from this post it looks like it might be an avenue to explore.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's so funny I identify with so many of your posts. My WH doesn't want to answer as deep as I want to go. I think because it will continue to hurt me, and he has to continue to face himself. My WH can barely look at himself, but that is not my problem anymore. I am hoping MC will help open the lines of communication with us.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nearly Exh would not answer in full sentences or truth, either. You know, he was taught NOT to. He was taught to live by cleaning up messes, rather than doing the rules so that messes don't happen...I think my nerves would be too much for that way of life.

Sometimes yes, it is too deeply digging and it causes them to face parts of themselves they don't want to-or don't know how. There are adults who don't know themselves very well and there are others who are impulsive and sometimes, I think with Nearly Exh, the affair he had was an impulse that he shouldn't have let happen.

He was also vulnerable, in that he was angry and blamed me, so maybe thought he was getting back at me for something.

It's been my experience and some friends, that the more a person is grilled or even asked, the more they retreat.

Sometimes there simply is nothing more there.

The victim standpoint is related to narcissism...that's Perv, too. He seems to feel "I did enough" for the marriage and so he was graduated or something when he got frustrated.

My suspicion is that it's easier for him (so as not to generalize, but he sounds similar to your WH) to feel like a victim than someone who has victims or has made people victims. He can continue floating along the river of denial this way, rather than digging deeper and chance admitting anything too much (sarcasm).

Yes, I and some peers have wondered what made Perv first think the thought to hit the first computer key to make a "profile"...or when approached by OW, what made him lie to her to make himself available instead of go home?

I think sometimes, like with Perv, he figured he could have a little fling and be all done, but that's not how it turned out...just because he thought no one would catch him. Well...we did.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
ShockedErica11
♀ Member
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep asking, too. I try to ask more like an investigative reporter so he's not as defensive.
After I get answers, I have questions about the answers. It's my life that went missing and I need to know what was going on when I was shut out.
I also forward him lots of links to this forum with other BS and WS stories and thoughts.
Little by little he is getting it. He read one WS story today and wrote back that he feels just like him and that he was a horrible person and an awful husband and friend to me.
We need to know because for so long, only they and the OW mattered. We need to matter more than they do now or why should we stay?

I try to be an investigative reporter about it, but then I get emotional and angry. Sometimes, I get really good at detaching, but it's gotten harder because of the TT that he did. When I first found out, I was as open as I could ever have been about any of our problems. Then he TT'd and killed that part of me that was all compassionate. Now, it's hard to be compassionate to anyone atm; and that's heartbreaking and strange to me.

I have a couple of thoughts based on my own experiences.
He knows the 'true' answers are going to be unacceptable so he is giving you the answers he thinks you want to hear.

He doesn't want to give you the answers, he wants to continue to be selfish and keep the true reasons, because it's his and the OW secret kind of deal, it's like he is going to betray the OW if he tells you the 'truth'.

He is afraid by telling you the truth you will leave.

He doesn't want to acknowledge what he has done, it's not wrong to him. He was trying to make himself happy.

He truly doesn't know why he did what he did. My IC says this is quite common.

If you both are fully committed to R, then he needs to get IC immediately to work through these reasons.

My xwh could never shake the victim mentality, it was always poor me. Even made up stories about his childhood to look like a victim. That he knows no other way BS. In reality from what I know now, I am fairly certain my x is NPD, it's always about him.

((Erica))


From my experience, these two statements you made very well COULD be the answer to why. He never had anything in his life, so once he finally did (you) he didn't feel he deserved it and had to ruin it because you don't have good things if you don't deserve them. Does he have a terrible self worth? Does he not value himself as a person and think he deserves anything good? It might seem like he does, but have you ever asked him? I only mention this because my H cheated on me for that very reason, he never felt he deserved anything good so once he finally got it he had to find a way to destroy it.

Just a thought, I don't know your WH at all, but from this post it looks like it might be an avenue to explore.

WH actually read your post and there are some of your points he agrees with. He says some of them bear some thinking and I agree. He's puzzled and confused by his actions, but also his compartmentalization. He wants to know "why" himself, I guess. We'll see.

It's so funny I identify with so many of your posts. My WH doesn't want to answer as deep as I want to go. I think because it will continue to hurt me, and he has to continue to face himself. My WH can barely look at himself, but that is not my problem anymore. I am hoping MC will help open the lines of communication with us.

In terms of my A, no, he does the same thing: he doesn't want to go to deep. He's trying to own my shit and I'm trying to let him know he can't. It was my choices and decisions. I think he struggles with that.

Him not dealing was what caused Round 2 with OBitch due to what I did in July 2011. He didn't deal with the fact that I got drunk and kissed a guy and got felt up; he internalized the rage, but also felt like he didn't "deserve" to be angry because he'd screwed OBitch before that incident. Even so, he got jealous, internalized his feelings and when OBitch contacted him in Aug 2011, barely a month later, he and OBitch began the EA portion of the A, and then had a 2nd sexcapade in March 2012.

And now, I'm pissed again.

FUCK.

Sometimes yes, it is too deeply digging and it causes them to face parts of themselves they don't want to-or don't know how. There are adults who don't know themselves very well and there are others who are impulsive and sometimes, I think with Nearly Exh, the affair he had was an impulse that he shouldn't have let happen.

In some instances, I want to be sympathetic to him about this very thing, but then I think: fuck that. I know it's painful to him, but there's also that part of me that says: "Tough, you asshole. You reap what you sow."

And that part of me causes me to harden myself and be unyielding to him at this point in our life because, you know, you kinda do: reap what you sow, that is.

[This message edited by ShockedErica11 at 11:17 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
Topic Posts: 8

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