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User Topic: If there were no bad women, there would be no bad men?
HURTAGAIN1981
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Member # 35178
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Curious. What do you think of this statement. This is something my late grandfather used to say. I have thought about it a lot over the years and I suppose in some ways I agree with it.

Let me explain. Now I am a woman so I am certainly not bashing them. My thinking is that, ultimately, it is the woman's choice to have sex with a man. So if a woman knows that a man is married or in a relationship, and she agrees to have sex with him, then she is enabling the affair/cheating. I wonder how many incidents of infidelity could have been prevented if women weren't giving themselves so freely. Of course, there are the women who have no idea that they are having sex with a married man, so cannot prevent it but that is a different story I guess.

I am not blaming women completely, the men who decide to cheat should know better and have better boundaries and morals but in the end, I can't help thinking that it all comes down to the woman.

Thoughts?


Posts: 296 | Registered: Mar 2012
41andthankful
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Member # 38650
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me, your statement is kind of a 'boys will be boys' mentality. It was my WH responsibility to stay true to his vows. The infidelity started with him making a decision to step outside of our marriage, not with ow agreeing to it. The moment he created a google number to find an ap is the moment our m was forever changed.

Posts: 241 | Registered: Mar 2013
lynnm1947
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Member # 15300
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And if there were no soldiers, there could be no war. This statement is just as true and just as unrealistic.


Age: 64..ummmmmmm, no...............65....no...oh, hell born in 1947. You figure it out!

"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks


Posts: 7118 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Toronto, Canada
StepAside
♀ Member
Member # 29826
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thought is a homewrecking whore is a homewrecking whore, equal opportunity there. Males and females. It is not something that is an obligatory behaviour due to the sex of the person choosing to engage.

just my $.02


Me 48yrs, douche midlife crisis poster boy- 50yrs
too many A's to bother to count, he is a predator that targets loosers like himself
Last Dday April 12/10-Divorcing
We live in a world where the fear of illusion is real

Posts: 1510 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The Cheese Stands Alone
WhatsRight
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Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the statement is an insult to men.

Like the words of the Willie Nelson song, "Right or wrong, a woman can own any man".

Women have the choice of whether or not to have sex, but the men are unable or unwilling to say no???

I have to say that some days I have my doubts - just because of my pain. But bottom line, men of character will just say no.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1850 | Registered: Apr 2012
solus sto
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Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thinking is that, ultimately, it is the woman's choice to have sex with a man.

Sorry, but I think this line of thinking is waaaaaayyyy off the mark.

Unless you're talking rape, it takes TWO.

There aren't unwilling men in affairs.

No. It's not the "bad women" creating "bad men."

[This message edited by solus sto at 8:48 AM, August 19th (Monday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8322 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
cissie
♀ Member
Member # 17637
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just s we have unfair generalisations against men, we have the same regarding women.
My BH thinks that women are the seducers.
My history was that at 12 an older man (not anyone tat I knew) came up to me and started talking inappropriately to me. I took that on myself as I thought I must have done something to give him permission.
Later when I was 15 another older married man, probably mid to late 30s came on to me. It was a situation where we were in the same building and I also vaguely knew of him before I met him. He did some inappropriate things to me, and because I acquiesced and did not complain, my BH thinks I seduced him. I guess at that age I was flattered, but I agree that I was guilty of going along with it, and knew it was wrong. He probably could have been arrested, but I did not know that at the time.
I have tried to point out that the vast majority of prostitution is men seeking out women to pay for sex. In fact it is an industry and we now have sex workers.
Brothels would not exist if there were not a demand and there would be no need to kidnap women and force them into prostitution.
Sorry, this hit a nerve with me as I used to maintain that I never was on the hunt for anyone else.

Posts: 514 | Registered: Jan 2008
whattheh
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Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And the statement works in reverse too especially nowadays...

Just wish the whores and whore mongers would stay away from us faithful types from the beginning. I told my Hy I never would have married or dated him had my crystal ball been working properly (telling me he was goin to cheat)... And I would have divorced him in a heartbeat if we were newly married.

[This message edited by whattheh at 11:00 AM, August 19th (Monday)]


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 481 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, does that mean if some cute gal throws herself at me and I say no thanks, I'm not a real man or something? Luckily I'm not manly enough to have gals throw themselves at me, so I can remain faithful through my admirable lack of desirability.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7359 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We (both men and women) are responsible for our own choices.

I also think that statement implies men are instinctively bad and need a woman to keep things on the straight and narrow. A very dangerous and destructive assumption.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1018 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
HURTAGAIN1981
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Member # 35178
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow there are lots of different opinions and ways to look at this.

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone and I apologise profusely if I did.

It is something I heard whilst growing up really. I suppose on the surface it seems feasible to me, until actually thinking about it.

To me, your statement is kind of a 'boys will be boys' mentality. It was my WH responsibility to stay true to his vows. The infidelity started with him making a decision to step outside of our marriage, not with ow agreeing to it. The moment he created a google number to find an ap is the moment our m was forever changed.

I think the statement does imply the 'boys will be boys' mentality and obviously the statement is somewhat dated now. Really hard to explain what I mean, but thinking back to times gone by where men were sent off to war or went into the navy for long periods of time. I think I actually posted a while back about whether infidelity is becoming more wide spread with the changing of the generations.

I absolutely agree that it was your husbands responsibility to stay true to his vows.

My thought is a homewrecking whore is a homewrecking whore, equal opportunity there. Males and females. It is not something that is an obligatory behaviour due to the sex of the person choosing to engage.

I also agree with this too. You could indeed flip it to say that if men were not willing to have sex with married women then they would not get the chance to cheat either.

So, does that mean if some cute gal throws herself at me and I say no thanks, I'm not a real man or something? Luckily I'm not manly enough to have gals throw themselves at me, so I can remain faithful through my admirable lack of desirability.

Definitely not. And I applaud any man for turning it down. It would mean that you are actually more of a man for saying no if that makes any sense.

Not really sure what I am trying to say. I think women have changed more than men over time. Men have always been men, of course there are equal amounts of bad women, just as there are good men, and good women also. But I think women have become more liberated, as far as sex goes anyway. Years ago, it was frowned upon for a women to have sex before she was married. It was also frowned upon for a women to have casual sex, but this has now become more 'normal'.


Posts: 296 | Registered: Mar 2012
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think women have changed more than men over time. Men have always been men, of course there are equal amounts of bad women, just as there are good men, and good women also. But I think women have become more liberated, as far as sex goes anyway. Years ago, it was frowned upon for a women to have sex before she was married. It was also frowned upon for a women to have casual sex, but this has now become more 'normal'.

I could see this though it forgets certain caveats, such as the fact women couldn't vote until less than a century ago and the concept of women owning property that wasn't automagically taken over by the Man In Her Life was a thing wrangled over from state to state until... heck I dunno.

So I'm sure that Boys were Boys and women were More Reserved because fucking around and getting caught doing that meant you were damaged goods. Literal goods, not metaphorical there. You were less valuable for fucking somebody. Not as a person, because, you aren't a person, you're a woman.

Also, please don't think I personally believe that. I don't, it was illustrating the world we no longer live in. Now that women are actual people, they assume the responsibilities of people, which makes it look like an orgiastic End Times flesh carnival because suddenly everyone is now keeping books for both sides and OH MY GOD WOMEN LIKE TO HAVE SEX TOO kind of thing.

I should probably stick to the cartoons in the other thread today, nevermind. Sorry.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7359 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've read a ton of articles and pop thinking that support some kind of gender role in regards to infidelity. I detest gender generalizations. And there seem to be a lot of popular articles and thinking out there that go that say that women are the ones who have to say no (or, within the marriage, say yes so that the guy can say no outside of marriage)... It's sad what the articles try to say about men and women. Does both of them a disservice by making them caricatures of expected behavior instead of free-thinking people. There are probably a lot of articles that go the other way too, trying to excuse women cheating as some fault of guys, either way, any article that tries to put the responsibility on one gender at the minimization of the other gender is a waste of time. The articles use the worst justifications too - everything from supposed evolutionary gender differences in sexuality, which are heavily disputed (and possibly many of which are irrelevant), to ludicrous statements that one gender is more sexual than the other and thus "needs" to cheat (several folks here would like to prove them wrong), to blaming the relationship, to something we learned in sex ed about women being responsible for pregnancy and birth and therefore being responsible for saying no, protection, etc. Just poor messages to be passing along - or rather, should have given everyone in class equal emphasis on being responsible sexually for their bodies.

Everyone's responsible. It's not fair to give one group of folks more of a pass than the others. In infidelity, if both parties are aware going in that it is in fact infidelity, then it's both parties' responsibility to say no. It says more about both parties' lack of values and boundaries that they don't. But I think I'm preaching to the choir here. Just have grown to hate a ton of pop arguments that try to address gender as this huge difference (Steve Harvey's "Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man" comes to mind) when it comes to committing infidelity. More divisive attitudes than not.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Newlease
♀ Member
Member # 7767
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe this is a grave disservice to men as well as a slap in the face to women.

Are we all just animals, ruled by lust and unable to make decisions with our intellect and our emotions?

A married man & woman should be able to have someone of the opposite sex parade in front of them naked, offering comfort both physically and emotionally and they would turn it down. People of both genders can be in vulnerable places and should know enough to remove themselves from temptation.

If people who are feeling vulnerable would just "lean in" (a new catch phrase) to their marriage instead of "leaning out" to find comfort outside of the marriage, there would not be infidelity and divorce.

And to borrow an old phrase from my grandfather's time, "Dance with the one that brung ya."

NL


Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7644 | Registered: Aug 2005
OneFootForward
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Member # 39136
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"It takes two to tango."

This requires forethought.
You went to the dance and THEN went looking for a partner. Sometimes, with animal like lust, we find a partner and then take them to the dance. Either way, no one is prancing around on the dance floor solo. Hetro or Homo... you are still out there dancing but not with the person you promised to dance with, exclusively.

I say we "call a spade a spade" and leave well enough alone.

HURTAGAIN1981, no harm no foul.


Me: 42 BS
Her: 41 EMA
Married: 16 years
D-Day#1: 04/17/13
D-Day#2: 05/8/13
Children: 9,5 (girls)
Om: High School Flame
"Marital problems doesn't make someone a cheater just like financial problems doesn't make someone a thief"

Posts: 71 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Mobile, AL
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the statement is an insult to men.
Like the words of the Willie Nelson song, "Right or wrong, a woman can own any man".

Women have the choice of whether or not to have sex, but the men are unable or unwilling to say no???

I have to say that some days I have my doubts - just because of my pain. But bottom line, men of character will just say no.


I agree with WhatsRight.
Just because a slut is naked and ready, that doesn't mean a guy has to jump on it. The reverse is also true.

It is about personal responsibility and respect for your partner (and yourself).


Me - 42
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4yrs, together 7yrs total

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
5 Furkids (3 Dogs, 2 Cats)

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

Note: I edit often for typos/clarity.


Posts: 6065 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Topic Posts: 16

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