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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 13
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WB - I think the 2015 US Open is at a public course up there. I'm in Vancouver (WA) btw

It is, Chambers bay. Just had a buddy who played there...can't wait to get on it!

Love Vancouver. I have a dad who lives in Chehalis. When I go down there, if you are interested, we should grab a beer....or hell..he like to golf, we could shoot a round.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd love to WB. I used to have a 2, now I'm an 11. Unfortunately, I'm heading to Afghanistan on Sept 22 for 9 months, give or take.

If you're still posting when I get back, I'll contact you via the board here.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Avoid the sand traps.

Kidding aside, Mike, stay safe.

ETA Thank you sir!

[This message edited by 5454real at 9:24 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)]


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd love to WB. I used to have a 2, now I'm an 11. Unfortunately, I'm heading to Afghanistan on Sept 22 for 9 months, give or take

I hover in between a 10 and 12. Never been close to being a 2. Stay safe in Afghanistan. I'll take you up on it when you get back. I have been on the boards for almost 2 years. I'll still be popping in 9 months from now!


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the responses gents.

MIL is just a vile vile person. She can't even be considered a lady so I shouldnt get in trouble with the whole chivalry thing by saying that.

No judgment here, DR. My MIL literally has horns and a tail. She also breathes fire and casts evil spells. And that's when you catch her in a good mood.

OK, slight exagerration. Truth is I just found out that my MIL is a survivor of horrible childhood SA. I've gone from contempt for her to deep compassion. Even though she is a major contributor to my wife's messedupedness, I've come to see her as someone who never had a chance at normalcy. She really tries to do right by the people in her life (even me), she's just hopelessly dysfunctional. Former OW, divorced multiple times, long time BF was a convicted sex offender, multiple bankruptices, lawsuits, etc. My wife was raised by this woman and abandoned by her dad at 12, so hell, 16 years of faithfulness might be a major achievement for her. Even post D Day she still seems relatively normal and highly functional considering where she came from. I married the good seed.

I see a pattern here. Not one guy has chimed in with something like "My wife grew up with perfect, loving, God-fearing parents who are still together in Mayberry." Maybe we should have more compassion and less scorn for our WWs. But damn it, it's hard when you're the victim of their waywardness.

ETA: Stay safe, Mike. Update us from Afghanistan from time-to-time if you're able.

ETA #2: I'm calling in a fire mission. We need B444's take on this topic.

Wonderboy...Fuckin A', Peter-man.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 9:52 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She really tries to do right by the people in her life

Not mine, completely incapable, As far as an actual action she does nothing for anybody. It's all bought and paid for stuff, and it comes with a hefty price tag for those that accept her dimestore presents.

She used to have her father and his mistress over for dinners. She actually facilitated that shit, providing them with safe haven and a seemly legitimate excuse for momma. Granted I'm sure her father had a lot to do this setting that up as well.

No judgment

Just know we have a few of the ladies follow along once and a while and wanted to make sure that they understood they definitely don't want my MIL representing them.


Mike,
We'll be waiting to hear from you when you get back. I have no idea what that's like myself, but after watching Battleground Afganistan on NatGeo, I have a whole new appreciation for what you do. Thank you, and watch your ass!


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not one guy has chimed in with something like "My wife grew up with perfect, loving, God-fearing parents who are still together in Mayberry."

Will be the first. FIL and MIL, both deceased, seemed to be perfectly normal people. Her dad seemed to be a bit reserved and her mom a bit pushy, but that's all I noticed. Sent their 3 daughters and 1 son to Catholic schools, mass, catechism, the whole bit. No scandals that I ever heard of.

Yet somehow their kids burned their way through a combined 6 marriages between them. 1 abusive, 4 divorces, and the one cluster**** M I'm presently in. How does that happen?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I met her, she had lost over 100#'s, begun competing in amateur body building contests and taken a job as a supervisor at her place of employment even with only a HS diploma. Even more intriguing, she didn't remember me from the rec center when I saw her at a video store later. I'm not WB, but I was pretty damn good.
TBH, I didn't look too deeply at her past or her FoO. Yep, she admitted to "a lot" of men in her past. Didn't phase me too much, I had "a lot" of women in mine.
Turned out that she was abused by an uncle at 4. Emotionally abandoned by her parents her whole life. Started having sex at 12 with a 17yo.(actually POSER was her 2nd at 12 also and he was also 17). Few more men til she moved out of her house at 15 to live with a 30 yo ACROSS THE STREET from her parents. They didn't care! At 16, it was the 36 yo band leader. She married a 27 yo when she was 18. Of course he was a match for her dad(Alcoholic abuser) and stayed with him for 8 years. I met her a year later.

If this doesn't work out, it was recommended that I shoot for a Trappist monk. I'm inclined to agree. Not only do I not need to get a haircut to fit in, they like beer!

Word to the wise. Look before you leap.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, BMenz cuts to the bone sometimes. I'm bleeding from every orifice right now.

Maybe you met her family and saw how dysfunctional they were. Instead of red flags, you marveled at how such a "normal" person could emerge from such chaos.

Word.

She would have been about the first person in her family not to blow up a marriage. Second, things came a little too easy with her in the early days. Is it really that shocking that things came so easily for the OM?

Fucking Word.

...thinking that I'd lucked out by getting the only person in the family who wasn't fucked up.

And by D-day had realized that the apple *never* falls far from the tree.

OMG!

The sad part of all this FOO stuff is that even with the cheating, my WW is STILL the least fucked up one in her family.

Sighs.

Maybe we should have more compassion and less scorn for our WWs.

That's where I am now. It took 30 hard years to get here. Serious, big time, loving R with these people is NOT for sissies.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not one guy has chimed in with something like "My wife grew up with perfect, loving, God-fearing parents who are still together in Mayberry."...

...Yet somehow their kids burned their way through a combined 6 marriages between them...

My inlaws are still together after 56 or so years of M. All's well, right?

Nope.

It is just a facade, painfully kept up like one giant coping mechanism.

Clues ignored:
Sister #1 is mentally disabled, cracked in college
Sister #2 was sexually abused at 17 by 45 year old swim coach
Sister #3 was dating guy 25 years older than her when I first met her. Went on to other 20+ year difference men until 'settling down.'
Parents have NO FRIENDS. I have never seen or met or heard of a friend in 21 years. Nada.

Now AFAIK, my wife is the only wayward, but anxiety and depression issues abound. And some hidden rage. All conversation is pretty superficial. All sisters (except disabled) are highly, highly successful.

There is something hidden and unspoken. My WW consciously does not know of anything, but all the signs point to something.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, August 28th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe we should have more compassion and less scorn for our WWs. But damn it, it's hard when you're the victim of their waywardness.
This kind of came up in MC early on, and I basically said fuck that....I had a ton of compassion for her FOO issues for the entirety of our relationship...I was really respectful of boundaries and her odd nuances when dealing with certain types of things....due in large part to the fact that I knew the kind of fucked-upness that she was brought up in...but I also encouraged her to seek IC the entire time, because I was worried about the long term consequences.....my wife had essentially been getting through life via a combination of compartmentalization and white-knuckling it for 25 years. One of the things that she told me that was illuminating (after the A) was that she was ashamed of herself because she "tried so hard for so long to keep it all together and not fuck everything up, and I couldn't do it anymore." That's not excusing her behavior, but I'll be damned if it didn't give me an insight into her headspace.

ETA:

No judgment here, DR. My MIL literally has horns and a tail. She also breathes fire and casts evil spells. And that's when you catch her in a good mood.

Ditto. My MIL pursues every single urge that comes up, without regards to the effect on anyone else. I've known her for almost 8 years now, and in that time she's moved her 3 kids (all under 10) about 8 times....that's 8 different apartments, 8 different schools (or districts), about 8 different live-in 'friends' and three different fiancees. And for no good reason, either....she had the same job that entire time, and all the moves were within the same socio-economic and geographic environments, more or less. She just got bored....so fuck her kids' need for stability.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 11:03 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1587 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hand Raised (emphatically)

WW's family has written the book on rug sweeping. No horns in her family, but denial runs real deep. Funny thing is I remember noticing it a long time ago, but assumed my WW was *different*.

WB - That really stinks with the lying. It is hard to understand why they don't see the damage that does to the relationship. Especially because it seems like it was a *stupid* and unnecessary lie.

I've been following along, but I've also been trying to stay away a little bit more as I try to work through my feelings. I've slowly lost my anger and it has been replaced by some serious indifference to my WW. I have been strongly considering D. She is usually remorseful but not proactive at all. If I struggle she will struggle.

It has been a tough month for triggers. Aug 13, 2011 was the one and only night that they spent in our house. I can remember every detail of that awful day. We had taken a family trip up to Chicago in July 2011 when the A started and spent the night again in Chicago before our trip to Paris.

This last weekend, we and her family went back up to Chicago to see off my wife's brother who was relocated for a promotion to Paris. Triggers were flowing. I was hurting but played it cool as to not distract from the emotions of the brother leaving. This week however I let down my guard and let it be known I was struggling. Her response has been frustrating. A few texts from yesterday...

Her

I'm sorry if I've done something to u! Have a good day love u

Me
I appreciate your concern for me. My mind has been overwhelmed lately. Chicago and Paris are triggers for me. I'm trying to tame demons but my natural reaction is to withdrawal. I hope you have a great day too.

Her
I'm sorry u are living in that world I'll say a prayer for u

Me
Me too. Thank you.

So I was honest with what was on my mind and she proceeded to withdrawal too and became hyper defensive about everything. I came home and gave her a hug. I didn't pretend that she had cooties or anything, but I was still noticeably troubled. Minimal words exchanged last night. But this morning she proceed to lecture me on my being disrespectful because I never once told her or texted her that *I love her*. I've been on the verge of filing for D anyway and she knows it.

The problem is that I do listen and try to understand her perspective. She does deserve respect, but that is the line in the sand that she wants to draw? A false *I love you* is something she *needs* to feel respected? I just wish that once she would step up and say something like "I'm sorry you had such a rough time lately. I'm so sorry for what I did. I love you and I'm not going anywhere even when you have a bad day." Something besides becoming angry and defensive. Anything!!!!

The problem really is that my expectations are too high. My expectations are that she be faithful a wife and that bell has already been rung ... a lot.

I'm a little perplexed by the whole exchange but to be honest I'm not angry. My emotions for her or any of our discussions hold very little meaning. It is not a good sign. I think I'm dragging my feet on the inevitable.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 9:48 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not one guy has chimed in with something like "My wife grew up with perfect, loving, God-fearing parents who are still together in Mayberry."

Mine did have what appeared to be a normal childhood-her folks were married and deeply in love for 40+ yrs, Catholic, etc.

But there was this POS uncle who lived nearby...


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TC,

if your WW's family wrote the book on denial then mine edited the 2nd edition. They never discuss the past, never acknowledge when there are blow-ups or bad behavior, never apologize for shit.

Seriously when I think about sister #2's sexual abuse by her coach, FIL made the rest of the family keep it a SECRET from MIL for 17 YEARS.

Everything points to some secret shame - and all energy is used to maintain the facade.

So when I think about WW's A - and the OM extolling the 'specialness' of keeping a 'secret' - and the family's refusal to communicate authentically - no wonder WW never openly talked to me - throughout the M. When I look at the sisters' 'daddy issues' (older men, coaches, etc.), I am not surprised that OM turned out to be a mentor and academic coach (specialty surgery stuff).

I wish someone had given me a field manual for checking out and evaluating potential W's families.

Now, TC, I am going to state the obvious for you...

I'm sorry if I've done something to u!

Should have been "I'm sorry for what I've done to you."

I'm sorry u are living in that world

Should have been "I'm sorry that you that I created that world for you."

On the surface it looks like a complete lack of empathy, but deeper it reveals what you say - DENIAL - is the learned coping skill.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:24 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
ForwardMotion
♂ Member
Member # 32608
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Add one more raised hand. I actually thought my in-laws were pretty cool at first, but shit became more apparent over time. When FIL (who WAS a great guy) passed prematurely, all hell broke loose. Apparently he was the glue that kept a carefully-constructed mosaic intact.

My MIL is the queen of PA evil. We are almost NC with her. SIL is the poster child for Hystrionic PD. My fWW has loads of issues that are going to take a LONG time to get through, but in her lucid moments sincerely wants to get better.

I fluctuate between love and compassion for her and kicking my own ass for A) not figuring shit our earlier, and B) sticking around.

But, as I think WAL pointed out awhile back, I'm 50, kids are out, am close enough to see a comfortable retirement. The equation for blowing the whole thing up is a difficult calculus.


me - BH

'It's not the end of everything,
It's just end of everything you know.'


Posts: 398 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Tejas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to give my MIL props - she was the one who warned me not to marry my wife. She knew that she was screwing around on me while I was overseas and engaged. For some stupid reason, I didn't listen to her - figured that once we got married, it would be ok. I was wrong. She's never really been faithful to me our entire relationship.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3299 | Registered: Dec 2011
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Check out this latest article.

Men 'more likely to have affairs than women because they experience stronger sexual impulses'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2405077/Men-likely-affairs-women-experience-stronger-sexual-impulses.html

Over more than 28 years of M I had no trouble controlling my sexual impulses but WW most certainly did. Hmmm...



Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Red flags all over the place for my STBXWW when we first met. But I too thought she was the normal one out of the bunch. Not so not so. Lots of disfunction and abuse going on there.

It's easy to pick out the issues now and I kick myself for not taking a step back and really examining who I was getting involved with. While I put the A squarely on the STBXWW I do have to accept some responsibility for choosing her. I had on rose colored glasses at the time. Glasses I put on, glasses I didn't take off. So I take some of the responsibility for letting myself get involved with someone who wasn't healthy or safe for me to be involved with.

Live and learn I suppose.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men 'more likely to have affairs than women because they experience stronger sexual impulses'

Oh boy, here we go again with the "men are naturally predisposed to do evil" again. When will they quit printing this bullshit?

ETS: If anything we have learned from being betrayed menz we know that women are just as fucked up as men. It's just more fun to pick on men I suppose. time to watch some more Bill Burr.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 10:25 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, August 29th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here we go again,

Man Bad, Woman Good

I call Bullshit on that one every chance I get. Of my five best male friends, every single one of them had their W's cheat on them. One guy cheated first, a couple of us cheated after. We are all sinners.

Back to the "Why didn't they tell us about this?" thread RE FOO and the rest. I guess the trouble is, if we were really rigorous, less than half of all women (and men too) would be found suitable. The human race would face extinction.

I know, I say that like it's a Bad Thing.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 10:45 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
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