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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 13
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kite, odd how these are so damn close-my youngest was 2 at the time, fWW was mid 40s, her dad just died-you can't make this shit up.

Mine just started a new job a month ago and has been doing similar things as when she was fucking around 6 yrs ago-coming home late every day, on the phone constantly, being bitchy-er than normal, etc.-but I just don't really care enough to check phone records.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
1985
♂ Member
Member # 28171
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damaged71, you are never going to get an answer that satisfies you. You need to understand that and accept that it will never happen because until you do, you will remain in your current state of mind.
And why won't you ever get an answer that satisfies you? Because you want an answer that makes sense to you. One that is rational, logical, based on fact and based on a realistic view of life. Sadly, no such answer exists for your W. she can't give you a satisfactory answer because there is none.
Let me explain more fully with a personal example. My W said that the "why" was: I was depressed. I was bored. I just wanted some excitement in my life. An adventure. And I was certain you would never find out. And if you never found out, you wouldn't be hurt by it, so it wouldn't matter that I did it.
That is my W's answer and I believe it is an honest recitation of her thought process back at the time.
Is it rational? Make sense to you? Logical? A realistic view of life?
Certainly I think it is not. It is unacceptable with respect to the fact that it is a truly screwed up thought process. But it was the truth of where her mind was at when she had her A.
That is where things are for you. Your W has probably told you the truth about how her mind was working at the time. Screwed up thinking --- but of course that is why her A was, to her, an ok thing to do
at the time. Expecting a rational, logical answer is expecting the impossible.
As to concerns about how can you be comfortable that her thinking won't be like that again some day, all we can each do is hope and observe. Hope that the destruction she caused will be such a strong lesson that she will never think irrationally again. Observe her actions and words to feel convinced that she remains on a proper path.


Me-BH 63
Her-fWW 63
DDay: June 1985. 5 years after A ended
DDay June, 1985
DDay June 1985
Still married - actually in love
2 grown kids; 4 grandkids

Posts: 589 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest - large city
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


The bad part in all of this is that the reason she was "lonely" was that I took a position that almost doubled my salary.

Going in, upfront I knew the job was going to be a beating for about 6 months. It was non-stop for me for 6 solid months. I didn't have time to sleep. She knew this going in. I did it for us.

She didn't get enough attention and my inclusion here is how I got repaid for it.

As far as I go, I am a different man than I was 17 months ago. I am the same man I was 20 years ago and I'm never changing again. I told my wife how things were going to be in a financial decision last week. She said "I'm mad". I said "you have every right to be mad but it's not going to change a thing. I am the head of this household and I will do as I see fit, it's my responsibility not yours".

I will never acquiesce to her wants over my good judgement again.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't think you loved me (!?)

Funny, said to me too. I realize now that WW was not so much stating a rational fact or a conscious thought, but a feeling. She was merely trying to say how she 'felt' at the time, and wasn't really in her mind connecting it to what I had done or not done. 'Lonely' same thing: in one of our MC sessions, she said how lonely she felt with me being gone 3 nights a week and one weekend day during my 5 years of grad school. My initial impulse was to point out the facts - that most semesters I was gone WAY LESS than that, and as such I was 'there'. Since I quickly realized that she was really just trying to express how she felt, I did not call bullshit on the facts but validated 'feelings'. I know, .

The facts don't really matter now, and they did not matter then.

My WW has started to realize that she is responsible for her feelings, and that the feelings are not necessarily representative of reality. Big step. She created her own feelings of loneliness by creating a wall of anxiety between us. She did not feel loved because (other than love language mis-translation) her family is completely fucked up and does not know what real love and intimacy are.

Hmmm. sorry for the tangent there.

anyways, Sal, my WW is saying the same thing as your WW.

But she can't really articulate a good reason for having an A. Maybe because there are no good reasons?

^^^ I get that and take that as a good thing. Meaning WW is starting to work on herself and as such all the original 'reasons' are now crap, leaving the truth - there are no good reasons.

Jack

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 1:42 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone else stayed this dysfunctional for this long? What do you do to get your life going again?

It took quite a few years of daily cycling between self-pity and rage before I made a decision to move on. Yeah, I'm a slow learner.

I'm retired now and volunteer at a local federal prison. My pastor says I belong with the criminals because they can relate to me.

I write and record songs, do lots of reading, prayer, meditation, exercise, eat right, and sleep better than I ever have.

Bitterness eats away at a person and eventually I decided that wasn't the road I wanted to take. I'm not purposely mean to Mrs. Kite but I take zero crap from her. I can live with her or without her. No more allowing myself to get manipulated or bullshitted by her. This is one of the positives I got out of enduring this ordeal.

When the mind-movies start up I change the picture to something that makes me happy, like Conan destroying his enemies.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

D71

It could be worse, my FWW's original explanation was:

"I felt so bad for him. His W was unfaithful."

WTF?

Merlin,

WW was very little help in my healing, and we didn't have SI "back in the day", so it took me 10 years of trial and error to get over it that included an RA, drug abuse, and a few million dollars thrown away in bad business decisions.

You can do better for yourself, R or D. The BMenz here are amazing, listen and learn.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1985

maybe you're right.

I did get some of these

My W said that the "why" was: I was depressed. I was bored. I just wanted some excitement in my life. An adventure. And I was certain you would never find out. And if you never found out, you wouldn't be hurt by it, so it wouldn't matter that I did it.

They sounded just like that.

I still feel like there is something that I am missing though. Maybe I don't get an answer I am happy with.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I don't get an answer I am happy with.

Maybe if leading up to this you had been missing for a long time and were presumed dead you could accept that answer... other than that I can't think of any explanation that would make you happy.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jack said:
she is responsible for her feelings, and that the feelings are not necessarily representative of reality. Big step. She created her own feelings of loneliness by creating a wall of anxiety between us.

"She created her own feelings"
not based on reality.

Reminded me of atsenaotie's quote enshrined in the quote thread down in F&G (you should check it out):

I was not that unhappy in the M.
To FWW’s thinking that was proof that she was being a good W.
OTOH, she was miserable, and that was proof that I was being a bad H and did not love her.

another one from there:
An affair isn't about what the WS wasn't getting (in your WW's case - "feeling loved"; it is about what they weren't giving.

Other ideas
-would you feel safe with her posting in Wayward?
THEY would help her cut through alot of bee ess.
- polygraph? You mentioned you thought she was holding back some things


Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That ATS quote is gold JJ. Damaged, focus on you. What makes you happy? What is Damaged doing for himself? Playing golf? Working on those abs just in case? Reading poetry? If you are focusing on you, then her reasons don't fucking matter. She doesn't matter. If while you start focusing on you, it pleases you when she is one of the activities, then you are on the way. If not, then that's a bad sign.

I'm off to Jamaica to lay on a beach, drink, play some golf, and just be Tred. Find out what that guy likes. (Hint - alcohol ). Ya'll will probably be on BM14 before I get back. Anyone down in Jamaica want to GTG?


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred I am so freakin happy for you man!
Not that you want to talk to us while on vacay, no...but, "
Jamaica has a fully digital telephone communication system with a mobile penetration of over 95%."
Just sayin.
Like, a pic or two or three
could help a brotha vicariously?
(see, I even rhymed that bich, to add to the plea)

Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm off to Jamaica to lay on a beach, drink, play some golf, and just be Tred. Find out what that guy likes. (Hint - alcohol ).

Damn you Tred, rub it in. Have a great time in Jamaica. The rest of BM 13 won't be the same without you, mate.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have a great time, Tred, you certainly deserve it!!

Be sure to have a (T)Red Stripe Jamaican Lager while you are down there.

Have fun!


Posts: 4557 | Registered: Dec 2010
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, and please describe how Ackee and Saltfish tastes willya?
71, check out the big 'stumbling block' for another jfo poster...
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=507677
Sound familiar?

Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With regard to the questions of "why" and/or "how could you" questions, at some point those questions were, for me, almost a form of denial of reality. It was like if I could just hammer down the point that the affair was completely senseless that we could wake up from this nightmare. It was like I was trying to convince her not to have the affair after the fact.

Unfortunately, as someone else pointed out, we can't talk our way into a better past.

On the earlier discussion about things that "she" says that is irritating. For some reason, it really pisses me off for her to say, "I am sorry you are hurting."

It sounds like she is suggesting my reaction is the problem. It's similar to the faux apology, "I am sorry you feel that way."


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For some reason, it really pisses me off for her to say, "I am sorry you are hurting."

Yep, I remember that phrase. After a talk, FWW learned to say something more like: "I am sorry you are hurting because of what I did."


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I belong to another board that is based on an entirely different topic. Most of the posters are men and about once a week one of them admits to being hit with the "curse" and needs advice. (Curse=cheating wife)

I have been very open on this board about my experience and post about this when I feel it's needed.

One of our other members posted an insight into a situation I didn't quite see coming. He writes a blog. Reading his blog has literally changed the way I look at my relationship and I think some folks here might find value in it.

He is essentially showing me something I already knew but forgot.

One of the members was going through a WW situation and he called it her "hold my beer and watch this" moment.

Here is why...

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/womens-morphing-need-for-male-investment/

Here is another post along the same lines. For me it cleared up so much.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/relationship-game-week-a-readers-journey/

If you read the "where do you want to eat" discussion it was one we had a ton of times. Since reading the above post I've not asked once what she wanted and she has actually seemed happier about it.

I think for men this is a conundrum. We try to please our wives. They act as if that's what they want. We are confused or rather shocked when it doesn't work and things go south.

I know I was.

From now on this is my world. If she wants to participate that's fine. If not...that's fine too.

[This message edited by damaged71 at 8:23 AM, September 12th (Thursday)]


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/relationship-game-week-a-readers-journey/

I'll be honest here, dude. I think this ^^^ one is complete bullshit. It seems to advocate a view of relationships that treats women in general, and the SOs in those situations, as children. The wives in those scenarios acted like spoiled children, and so..
“I stopped treating my wife like I was an enslaved sycophant willing to do whatever the goddess desired and started treating her like the kid sister with the backhanded compliments, light-hearted teasing, and over-the-top sarcasm”

Gently, fuck that noise. If I'm going to be with someone, I'm going to be with an equal, with all the expectations, responsibilities, and respect that are afforded to an equal adult.

From the rah-rah comments section:

If a guy’s wife acts like she’s a princess, then he needs to act like a king :-) Women want men to rule them, protect them, guide them, tell them what to do… it’s just the natural order.
Again, gently, fuck that. This, to me, is so damn demeaning and dismissing of women's agency and intelligence. I don't exist to rule, protect, and guide anyone except my son. I don't give a damn about 'natural order'...we live in a society where we've created systems in order to circumvent certain 'natural order' ideas that were deemed destructive or counterproductive.

The biggest issue to me is that it's all still role-playing and game-playing...and not in the cool D&D kind of way....shout out to StillGoing. Your 'role' as a husband/male is to 'guide' and 'rule' and 'protect'....well what if you don't fit that role? What if you get tired of it? If your wife starts acting like a spoiled brat when it comes to dinner choices, then your job isn't to switch your 'game' up, it's to not play the fucking game. Games are for kids. It's her job to figure out why she couldn't just fucking choose something when she's hungry later, not your job to play to some ancient part of her brain that wants to be coddled.

My thoughts, anyway. YMMV.

ETA:
Just so I don't come off like a completely negative son of a bitch, just wanted to add that I think the first article was an interesting read regarding the flawed calculus that women considering divorce make. I think that it jumped to a lot of assumptions, but was still interesting in that it attempted to explain some cultural tropes that get kicked around.

ETA2:

I think for men this is a conundrum. We try to please our wives. They act as if that's what they want. We are confused or rather shocked when it doesn't work and things go south.

I know I was.

From now on this is my world. If she wants to participate that's fine. If not...that's fine too.


I think this ^^^ is all still perfectly valid. Didn't mean to jump down your throat there.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:54 AM, September 12th (Thursday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Facepunched

I get how you see this but I think it's deeper than it appears on it's face. You said

What if you get tired of it? If your wife starts acting like a spoiled brat when it comes to dinner choices, then your job isn't to switch your 'game' up, it's to not play the fucking game.

I completely agree with everything you said. The deal is she is playing a game on her own. She might not know it but she is. Your job is to not participate. That is the extent of your game. There are easy ways to do that which will bring about general happiness.

As far as the restaurant thing , I know what makes my wife happy. I also know she is indecisive. I have found instead of asking her what she wants I have just been saying trust me. She is happier and so am I.

I am not looking to "game" my wife. If there are methods of interaction that will make both her and I happier, why not try that?


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred

Enjoy your vacation. It's a big island and it depends on where you are staying, but if you get a chance check out Rick's Cafe near Negril. It is located on the ocean with cliffs that if you're adventurous enough and willing to risk looking the fool are quite fun to take a plunge. It's awesome at sunset. A little pricey, but one of the coolest places I've ever been. Unfortunately for me it was the week after D-day when I pulled my WW out of her job (where POSER worked) and *abducted* her to the island to try and regroup. It was an extremely awkward vacation.

But she can't really articulate a good reason for having an A. Maybe because there are no good reasons?
I agree that this is a good thing that she can realize that there are never any good reasons for betrayal.

It sounds like she is suggesting my reaction is the problem.
I continue to get this even as our D is in the works. The reason for our D is my inability to let bygones be bygones and my unwillingness to live in the present instead of the past. Taking responsibility doesn't come easy for some people. I was frustrated last night because I was talking to my 4 year old and asking how his day went. He said that he played while I was at work. Mommy said you told me to get out of your house. I told him that is not what I said and that this house will always be his house too. He doesn't understand nor appear upset. He just doesn't get what is happening and it certainly isn't going to help having his mother spew like that. That is the thanks I get for parting with my CLS63.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 9:17 AM, September 12th (Thursday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

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