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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Do you ever talk about divorce?
krazy8516
♀ Member
Member # 40076
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I'm confused. Everybody's "conflict avoider" WS's sound just like mine... except he's not a conflict avoider at all! At least, I don't think he is... Unless a conflict avoider can also have anger management issues??

I am realizing my WH's behaviors are causing me to trigger.

You said it, Crazy. What are our options with WS's like these??


me: BW, 30
him: WH, 25
us: edging closer to R every day

married 2y, together 2.5y
1 beautiful daughter, 23m

"Someday soon, I'm going to put my life together; Win or lose, I'm starting over again."


Posts: 368 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Texas
OldCow18
♀ Member
Member # 39670
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Krazy, my WH has major anger management issues...and he is a conflict avoider, which means he'd rather tell a white lie than upset me. He says things he thinks he should to smooth out situations. Makes it all so much worse. But then, when he's had enough he BLOWS.


Me, BW forty something, DD & DS,
Married to WH (48) 10 years, together 15
D-Day 6.8.13
D-Day #2 9.6.13 Broken NC/TT
D-Day #3 10.23.13 "Full Disclosure"
WH having PA with MW coworker 3.13-6.13

Posts: 620 | Registered: Jun 2013
krazy8516
♀ Member
Member # 40076
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, OC. That sounds like my WH.

I've seen him get very "in your face" but that's usually after varying periods of deafening silence.

Before the A, he was having a problem with something I did 2 years ago (but he didn't find out about it until the end of last year), and he held on to that shit for almost 6 months before we "talked" about it. And by talked, I mean he exploded. And that's only because I finally realized something was wrong and kept prompting him for answers. After that, I got the ILYBINILWY speech. I feel like if he had just come to me right away that whole fiasco might have been avoided.

I think I'm going to need to read up on conflict avoidence...


me: BW, 30
him: WH, 25
us: edging closer to R every day

married 2y, together 2.5y
1 beautiful daughter, 23m

"Someday soon, I'm going to put my life together; Win or lose, I'm starting over again."


Posts: 368 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Texas
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unless a conflict avoider can also have anger management issues??

Yes they get mad when their evading conflict doesn't work.


My WH is both conflict avoident and passive aggressive with a sprinkle of NPD. It's so wonderful to be with someone so mixed up.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
In R
"If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." -Carl Sagan

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
PricklePatch
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Member # 34041
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine has anger issues as well. I still maintain he has control by not acting.


BS
Fwh
sorry post on my tablet

Posts: 243 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: pricklepatch
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We just had a big fight over the blank stare last night. He looks like a deer caught in headlights. Blink, nod, breath...just don't sit there with a blank stare. It makes my anger increase by the second. I'm pouring my heart and soul out and my husband has nothing to say. Not a single word! It's beyond frustrating. I feel so alone in that moment and unsupported. He's so afraid of saying the wrong thing and making it worse. I blame his parents. His opinion never mattered. His feelings never mattered. He can't even explain what he feels half the time. I've been in therapy for 10 years so I've basically been trained to talk about feelings and analyze them. He can't let any feelings out and I can't keep any in. It's a mess.

Posts: 476 | Registered: Jul 2013
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry, Scubachick. I know your frustration. Do you find the more vulnerable you are when you share feelings, the quicker and more intensly the anger rises when you realize he has that blank look? Do you feel like the blank stare is like a bucket of cold water thrown on you, or only a pretense to be listening, but only with the ears, not the heart?

Last night my H shared childhood memories. While his family never talked about their feelings, he said his mother always made sure she told him and his brother she loved them. You know, a simple ILY. He doesn't have any negative feelings about her with regard to her treatment of him. I should be happy, but I'm not. Then why doesn't he have a relationship with her beyond a long distance phone call a few times a year, she mostly talking about herself? How come she is uncapable of showing love toward our children beyond telling husband over the phone, "Tell the children I L them." She isn't even capable of telling them she L them herself, or having a conversation with them.

From his few memories, and how MIL behaves today, I believe he was very much on his own, their interest in him very superficial. When he was in sports, they watched "a few games." A few games? WTH? One of his parents should have been at every game, and only missed a few game. His brother was 2 years older and had his own friends, and his step siblings were older and all on their own. At 10, when his parents got divorced, he was on his own. How long he was on his own before that while their M disintegrated, who knows? Right away, his mother M the other man and built her life around him. He grew up in an adult centered world, where children were on the outside, expected to behave. I feel sad for that little boy. He is not that way as a father to our children. Our daughters talk about feelings. He just has a hard time talking about his own feelings.

I told him last night my earlies memories of people being gone is when I was in teh 2nd grade, and my father was in Vietnam. The war was reported, with names of those fallen, and scenes from various skirmishes, on the television. He wrote me a few letters which I read over and over, and cherished, knowing he was alive at the time he wrote them. To phone him was very expensive, and because of the time zone, I have only one vague memory of a phone call to him during his year in vietnam. I missed him so much.

My teenage brother went to college when we lived overseas, and I wrote him letters, but got none back. I loved him so much. Tears want to come as I write this.

Them my dad went to Korea for a year. I was older by then, and he was an angry, physically abusive father by then, but I missed him. Last, he went to Iran for my senior year. I really wanted a father.

Because of my experience growing up, and seeing my own mother's loneliness and sadness, I didn't want to marry anyone in the armed services. I respected and appreciated what they did for our country, but I knew I could not endure the separation. I went on one date with a Cadet from the Air Force Academy, but I sabotaged it on purpose by doing something stupid, so he would never call again. I know, I should have been honest and told him I didn't want to see him because I didn't want to FIL with him, but I thought it would hurt his feelings, so if I could make him not like me he'd think it was his idea.

When I M my H, he had career ideas that would allow us to be together. The year before the A, he got a job 5 hours from home and he came home about on a monthly basis. I was so hurt he moved away and left me to raise and homeschool our children, and take care of maintaining a house all by myself. Then he ended it with the A, asking me for a D.

So here I am, just waiting for him to leave, like every man in my life did, and he also did. He should just get it over with, so I can make a new life. Maybe I should initiate the break up, instead of acting like that stupid highschool girl who acted silly so the Cadet would break up with me. The only problem is that I still L him, under all my hurt, frustration, disgust and fear.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HBH - thanks for starting the thread I can identify with what everyone has written. It's just been in the last week that I've finally realized that my WH is conflict avoidant and how that has exhibited itself over the years (and does today).

And Prickly - I identify with this SO much too.

So by his inaction there has to be a responsible party and it isn't him. He is the victim of the controlling birch wife.

This thread and everyone's responses to it has been so timely and such an eye opener for me.


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
myperfectlife
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Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, conflict avoiders often have anger management issues. Mine definitely does!
I agree that they have control by not making decisions.
This is something which drives me crazy.
I've told WS often that he has had ALL the control in this situation. I have none.
He is trying not to shut down, and I am trying to not interrupt, but it doesn't seem half as fulfilling as when I speak with a female friend. We (me and my female mentors/friends) can cover amazing amounts of ground in a short period of time without hurt feelings.

We have the exact same dynamic. Usually its because what he is saying is blaming me for something for which I don't feel responsible. I interrupt to defend myself because if I wait until the end he doesn't get it.
When I do interrupt him (and even sometimes after he's entirely done speaking) he will scream at me "I WASNT FINISHED TALKING!! WILL YOU LET ME FINISH FOR ONCE!"
My therapist has been working with me on me always saying "I understand what you're saying, BUT..."
I get that I should validate his feelings. I get that.
However (but!lol) does that mean I have to be in a marriage where I don't get to voice my opinions? Or defend myself against inaccurate facts?
When he says " You say that I have to go NC with her to stay married but that's your opinion."
That's not an opinion dumbass.
It's a fact. I won't stay if you don't go NC. That's not blackmail, that's a personal choice I have made for my life.
He is in IC and "working on" standing up to people. He is always white lying and telling people what they want to hear because he doesn't want anyone to think bad of him or be mad at him or hate him.
I am the total opposite-honest to a fault and have lost friends over it.
He cheated. I didn't.
I'd rather be me.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So by his inaction there has to be a responsible party and it isn't him. He is the victim of the controlling birch wife.
Only I would say, by his inaction, there is no responsible party. His W is angry and controlling over things that either don't matter in the long run, or that matter and he can't (or won't) anything about.

I agree that they have control by not making decisions.
This is something which drives me crazy.
Yes. I don't want to be the one making all the decisions and I don't want to look crazy either...hence this thread.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Scubachick
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Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I'm so sorry, Scubachick. I know your frustration. Do you find the more vulnerable you are when you share feelings, the quicker and more intensly the anger rises when you realize he has that blank look? Do you feel like the blank stare is like a bucket of cold water thrown on you, or only a pretense to be listening, but only with the ears, not the heart?
I feel like he's ignoring me when he does that. To me, ignoring someone is one the meanest things you can do to someone. It says I care so little about you and what you have to say that I'm not even going to bother responding. When his family gets upset with one another, they just stop talking for a few days and then boom...everything is fine. Like if you don't talk about the problem, it will go away. It doesn't go away. It sits just below the surface and builds up.
I grew up without a father so I understand what it's like to have that hole that can never be filled. I always wondered what it must feel like to have a dad that protects you. Instead I got a dad that I had to protect myself from. Are you and your brother close now as adults? How did your husband react when you shared all of those painful memories with him?

Posts: 476 | Registered: Jul 2013
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 2:25 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband hates to argue. We didn't fight much before the EA but now it seems like it's all we do anymore. He gets so discouraged by it. To me, Fighting is a form a communication and as long as we keep communicating, we can make progress. He said the strangest thing to me last night. He said "how can two people still love each other if they are fighting and saying mean things to each other for days/weeks at a time" I said "the same way a husband and wife can still love each other even though he just betrayed her with another woman".

Posts: 476 | Registered: Jul 2013
HurtButHopeful?
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Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scubachick, You nailed it.
He said the strangest thing to me last night. He said "how can two people still love each other if they are fighting and saying mean things to each other for days/weeks at a time" I said "the same way a husband and wife can still love each other even though he just betrayed her with another woman".
It's not rocket science. It's called marriage: not giving up even though you are hurt more than you ever thought you could be. Some spouses have never heard of "for better or for worse"


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you and your brother close now as adults? How did your husband react when you shared all of those painful memories with him?
We got back in touch after many years, but he has always been terrible about keeping in touch. Now we don't have any contact at all.

When I told my H those feelings he did apologize (again) for what he did.

Last night I apologized for being so...I couldn't put a word on it....lately. He filled in, "triggery," then he said it wasn't my fault. Then we had some great HB!

We're getting along better, I'm over the triggers (for now) and am hopeful again.

When his family gets upset with one another, they just stop talking for a few days and then boom...everything is fine. Like if you don't talk about the problem, it will go away. It doesn't go away. It sits just below the surface and builds up.
Same as my H's family. Only problem is, it doesn't build up...they just keep doing this over and over, never talking about feelings, looking the other way, never asking the "hard" questions, and making excuses for each other. I'd be miserable growing up in a family like that. I need emotional connection going in both directions.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
StepAside
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Member # 29826
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, September 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unless a conflict avoider can also have anger management issues??

Yes. His multiple A's were his way of expressing his anger, he admits they were the ultimate f*ck you to me, goes along nicely with his passive-aggressive, sociopathic tendancies, personality disorder, and ingrained FOO issues.

We are talking D now...or wait, *I* am talking, he is doing the 'blank stare' or the clenched face, or the classic word salad (talking in circles to avoid any resolution for me on the topic) his refusal to interact, or make a decision is his ‘control’, he will get to preserve his 'victim' status to the crazy controlling wife. Poor dear. It should help with recruiting and grooming his next cheerleader/fan. I guess I'm helpful like that.

I sound bitter, it is too much work to be angry and bitter, and I'm looking forward to the freedom from carrying this load of sh*t. Whether that comes in the form of D or S or even R, I'm moving forward.


Me 47yrs, douche midlife crises poster boy- 49yrs
DitchPig -45yrs Shrek in drag.
Last Dday April 12/10-Divorcing
We live in a world where the fear of illusion is real

Posts: 1502 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The Cheese Stands Alone
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, September 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

word salad (talking in circles to avoid any resolution for me on the topic)
I forgot this part. The other side of the blank stare is the disguised non-answer.

I didn't recognize the word salad/non answer for the first 22 years of our M. I'd ask a Q, he'd respond, and hours, or weeks later I would realize he hadn't answered the question or committed to anything, he just said enough to let himself off the hook!

Me: "Honey, do you think we could ____?"
Him: "That's an idea."

Child: "Daddy could we_____?"
Daddy: "That sounds like a possiblity."

Then it never gets brought up H again.

Of course it is an idea. Of course it is a possiblity. But are you interested, but are you going to contribute to turn it into a reality?

After reading about PA behavior, it only takes me a minute or two to recognize the non answer, or detour. Once I realize the conversation has been derailed or detoured by his non-answer or sideways answer, I address his non answer as not being what I was talking about, and re-ask the question. He sometimes gets angry because he feels his responses are being controlled, and to some degree they are: they have to be relevant to the question or topic, and not disguised to make them look like an answer when they aren't really related to the question or topic.

Another thing: not wanting to take the blame for a negative decision.

Yesterday H and I were talking about a dismantled playset we have since we moved. (Our youngest are 11, 13, 16, and they still would play on it...really.)

He said he wanted to sell the slides and use the wood for other things. Our youngest was listening and I could see she was really sad about it not being rebuilt. We have no yard at our new place. It is on a desert mountainside. There is no where to play, no shade, only goat heads, tumbleweeds, and dirt. The house is really nice inside, and that is where our children and I spend most of our time, or we go to activities at other places.

I told DD in front of H, "I don't agree. This is Daddy's idea." There were a few minutes of silence as we moved the pieces of the slide together for selling. Then Daddy began talking about rebuilding the playset with the swings and platform putting an animal enclosure under the platform where her and her sister could play with their guinea pigs. He still wants to sell the slides, which is fine, since our girls are getting too big for them. The swings, if they get rebuilt, are great even for adults, being about 12 feet tall.

That would be really nice....if it ever got done. My thought, after being M to him for 23 years, is that he was just trying to save face in front of our youngest, and it will not be done...unless he reads this post and he wants to prove me wrong, so he can be right. But if he reads that last statement, he will not want to do it because he will want to do the opposite of what I think he will.

sigh. It's like the chinese water torture. A name should be invented for it: Them: "Let's play with people's heads using words, so we don't have to really say what we mean, and always look good in everyone's eyes...that is until they figure out that they can't really believe what they hear coming from my mouth is the truth..."

I think my H desperately wants love. When things are going well, and are on his terms, he seems very happy. But eventually, he begins being slightly aloof from me. He doesn't do this with the children, and I'm glad for that. There is a part of him that doesn't want me to know him deeply, or connect with me. He instinctively keeps me at arm's length emotionally, and intellectually. This could go on forever. It is I who always brings things to a head, and starts the wars.

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 11:06 AM, September 2nd (Monday)]


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

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