H: I'm beat. What a long day.
OW: Yeah. Want to go for drinks? I need a good glass of wine to unwind.
H: No, I am getting too old for his. I am going home.
OW: you are not old. Your the best looking 40 year old I know.
H: I'm 52, but thanks.
OW: Oh, my God, you are in better shape than any of my friends and you can run circles around them. I am the one who needs to quit running with the young crowd.
H: you look great
OW: Oh, thank you (big hug) coming from you that means so much. You spend a lot of time out at night at these meetings. Doesn't your wife care?
H: No, she has her things to keep herself busy and these meetings are a necessary evil right now.
OW: It must suck that she does not care about you. I would never let my man be out this much.
H: She understands and I think she cares...
OW: Must be lonely for you, going two separate ways.
H: I never thought about it that way. I guess my wife does have her own life.
OW: You are too great not to be appreciated. How can she really appreciate everything you do if she does not care. You have a real talent for communication and you know so many important people. Doesn't she know how wonderful you are? I would never let you forget how wonderful you are.
H: Well, she does not come to these meetings because she is not a part...
OW: I cannot believe she is not interested in what you do. Too bad. I have heard of marriages like this where the H has to go out alone because the wife is too preoccupied to support the H.
H: She waits up, but we do not usually talk much about business. Our grandchildren keep her busy and she works some.
OW: Your wife sounds like she does not care about you or what you enjoy. Let's get together tomorrow over coffee to talk about how the work can go forward. I have some great ideas. Or maybe better, come to my house where it will be quiet tomorrow evening. I am sure your wife will not care. Merlot ok with you? I'll have a little snack out for us. 5:30 ok?
H: I'm not sure. I will check.
OW: You're cool meeting with just me, right? I mean, you're just so interesting I could talk to you all night. I need to go do my exercises before bed. You know I am as flexible as I was in high school. I mean real flexible. Anyway, you got my number. Call me. Anytime you need to talk, day or night, I have all the time you need.
Of course he went. And went back. Everything he said about me or us got turned into a negative and he was too weak to make a challenge. It is just like the frog in the warm pot. You throw him into a hot boiling pot and it jumps out. If you put them into a nice warm bath and slowly turn up the heat they will be boiling in no time. I am confident if she had just walked up to him and said let's fuck, he would have run away so fast she would have seen smoke. Nope, she set up the jacuzzi and just turned up the heat gradually. She was nibbling on his cooked legs in no time.
The entire OW speak talking points on how to land a married man is available on several women's magazine websites. It is disgusting that single women make a game of this.
I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.
You know I am as flexible as I was in high school. I mean real flexible.
I can't believe anybody would be stupid enough to say this, much less fall for it.
"Some of us don't see people how they are but how we need them to be".....quote from Uncertainone
Finally this is R 8/14/13
"Forgiving is a journey; the deeper the wound, the longer the journey".
Of course he went
Honestly, lovedyou, no of course at all. That conversation is a hot boiling pot. The over the top flattery. The repeated insistence on defining your lives together. The aggressive insistence on meeting despite his initial refusal. If a successful businessman isn't alarmed by this I'm worried for his clients...assuming its that type of business.
Many married people aren't hard to land. Some live in the moment. I have friends that try to talk me into things all the time, and I'm not even talking about bad things. Just desiring my company (or any of their friends) to join them for truly innocent things. If they push I get pissed. I'm sure you do too.
If a hard sell is all that's needed for someone to toss their vows there's far more going on than someone's skill at enticement.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
And amen to this:
****If a hard sell is all that's needed for someone to toss their vows there's far more going on than someone's skill at enticement.****
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
FWH thought he was going to be able to use the OW for FWB's. He told OW "I will never leave my wife for you". FWH thought OW was on the same page. FWH thought he was calling the shots all along. He totally panicked when he realized he had no control at all (over OW) and that it was the one who was actually calling the shots.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
we need to realize there are game playing people who make a study of getting into our spouses pants.
My WH's OW would say stuff like
"you're so amazing, she doesn't deserve you" or "i can treat you better"
my WH would say, "she's irreplaceable" and the whore would say "we'll see about that".
[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 1:48 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]
I also believe that there are predatory AP's. They can smell a vulnerable person a mile away. They are manipulative and evil. They are very good at what they do. They actually are able to make their intended "victim" believe that they are the ones that pursued them. I am not saying that the WS is a hapless "victim", but there are a lot of very naive and gullible people out there. The WS does make the choice and the decision in the end, but sometimes they don't realize they have been royally mind fucked first.
[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:57 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]
The other issue I would struggle with is believing that's how the conversation actually went. He paints it as though he never flirted or sent the flattery back to her. That's a big pill to swallow. Did he really never flirt back or give her more than a passing flattery comment and the rest was giving pat answers to her? I suppose it's possible, but I'm not sure it's probable.
I have a friend who speaks that way. It makes me uncomfortable. Over-the-top flattery, as UO said - or as my Nana once said, "Are you buttering me up to take a bite?" Be weary of people who do too much - it often comes with a price, and one we might not be willing to pay. It sucks to be pessimistic, but overly niceness is a tool. One person is over-the-top nice, and the other person feels they owe them. Boundary issues written all over that.
I wonder where people learn that that's how you get what you want? I learned from watching a particular family member do it; she still does (and she happens to be an OW). Another family member said, "Kill them with kindness." All manipulative. Not real kindness. Sad and scary. Unlearning that.
Boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Politely and firmly saying no. Maybe not-so-politely the second time. Walking away physically. An underused but very effective tool in the cases of boundary breaches. Saying "Excuse me, I have to go call my spouse." Or anything else. Just not settling for "OK" about an interaction when it's not.
[This message edited by silverhopes at 2:01 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]
Our spouses being "vulnerable" is on them, not the predator.
The issue here is not that she provided an invitation. The issue is that he accepted the invitation.
It seems like you are maybe trying to make what he did less painful and less of an issue. You make it sound like he was the victim of a master seduction. Honestly, all she did was make it very clear what she wanted. He then acted on the opportunity.
Also, I'm afraid you are very wrong that he wouldn't have slept with her if she had just said, "let's go have sex right now". I think that because basically, that's exactly what happened. Her little banter could be spotted a mile away, don't you think?
Forsaking all others includes women who come on to you on business trips. So, I'm sorry, but your WH gets zero sympathy points from me. Actually, he's in the negative column in my book, because he chose to go back for more.
True, they're both culpable. She for being a complete predator. Him for not shutting her down.
"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 30 - Yikes!
(((Lovedyoumore))) Wow. I'm sorry. He really should've seen this one coming.
I included this approximate conversation to show how pathetic BOTH of them were. I have not given him a pass on this at all. He was so appalled after DDay he went into intensive IC therapy for over six months to deal with the guilt and find out why he had such poor boundaries at that time. There are not excuses for an A, but why includes both before and during the A. In 6 months before the A began he had to quit running due to knee surgery, our last child was to graduate from college, we had a new grandchild, his job had become frustrating rather than fulfilling, and the biggest issue, his elderly mother died a very bloody, violent death. I tried to support him and he tried to do it the old fashioned way and just push through. Big mistake. I wish he had sought IC before the A rather than after. He is forever changed as am I.
One of our issues has been why did he submit to a woman that he would have never been attracted to otherwise. IC has helped him see the manipulator in OW came at a very vulnerable time, she used information about me, our marriage and his mother, to twist herself into his soulmate. She could be whatever he needed whenever he needed it. She told my H that the two of them sat at a charity luncheon table together (he does not remember that) a few months before she showed up to volunteer at an event my H was working on. She told him after the A started that she decided at the luncheon that she wanted him and set up a plan to meet up again. She quit a regular job to volunteer to be near him. All before the A even started. How desperate is that?
Yes, we may have not had a perfect marriage, but I thought we were in a good place and I was blindsided by it all. In some ways, so was he. He has said many times he should have sent her packing but he was trying to be "cool" and handle it.