SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BH here:

Its been a while since i posted as I've been working very hard to put in the hard work to do the right things to repair my marriage from a wife that had an LTA (PA & EA) with her former boss.

Its been 16 mos. since confrontation day and 18 mos. since my D-day.

I took 2 mos to decide what i was going to do when before I confronted.

We stopped MC at her insistance (were both in IC also with same MC) this ended October 2012.

WW said we didnt need MC to fix our mariage. So i went along to see where this would take us.

She does some things correctly (but i dont need a good room-mate - i want a wife) When it comes to physical intimacy, it's almost non existant for us. We never had any H-bonding period and any physical intimacy we do have, is not good. Physical intimacy started October 2012 on our 25 anniv. 2-week Cruise.

She will not take her tee shirt off when we make love, and will not allow me to touch her breasts. (claims she is embarassed with them although i have alwasy complimented her on her looks and do so regularly) I tried a few times in forplay to touch her breasts and was elbowed once and was told "no you dont" and another time was told, "what do you think you are doing"? ..

so i stopped trying to touch her breasts hoping that will change in time and gave her patience which she asked for.

But were now 18 mos into "R" and nothing has changed.

She never initiates making love, and when i ask (and unfortunatly i do have to ask) she makes excuses almost every time to postpone ..its "im to tired" or "can it wait until tomorrow?" or "dont put me under so much pressure becasue I feel bad for continually turning you down"

I told her that last comment was passive aggressive and not to give me her pity-party and she stopped with that excuse.

When we do make love, she lays in bed for about 5 min before we start with foreplay and takes continual deep breaths (deep breathing exercises) to calm herself down..at times to see this..is almost comical...to watch a 57 yr old woman....do this before making love to her husband

I'm sure that never occurred with the AP (or maybe it did i truly dont know)

Foreplay is no longer than 5 minutes and many times when i touch her she giggles and says it tickles. I have never known any woman (and i dated a few until i was married at 32 yrs old) that was so sensitive and ticklish in most any spot on her body..and she was not like this pre "A". This is all new.

When we do make love there is no oral sex on either side and that was always part of our forplay Pre "A". But when i ask, she has memory loss and says she doesnt remember that.

After we both orgasm, (missinary position only and a few times with her on top) she rolls over and goes to sleep...no talking, no emotional imtimacy connection talks....in fact, I have tried to lead(by example) and talked to her about my feelings after "O" and she tells me "you are assuming the woman's role and talking about your emotions" ..one time she even asked me if i was growing a "vagina".

This is suppose to be funny...and when i called her out on this as being very inappropriate and insensitive, she said i cant take a joke. Which is not true. Issue Avoidant according to our MC

She and our daughter left this week for Europe (mommy-daughter) trip (7 nights) and I had asked 2 days before her last night in the States for us to make love before she left... the 2 nights before, one night she was "exhausted from work", and the other night she had a conference which she had an overnight .

So the night she was packing..i helped her in every way...to get things packed...and then when she finally got to bed @ 10:30pm, she told me she was "too tired"...and i asked her why she is so withdrawn and unavailabe when it comes to physical and emotional intinacy as tonight was not the only time this happened?

and she said she wasnt unavailable, just "tired"...i think she actually belives she is not available

She then tells me im like our daughter (our daughter, for those that remember me had a horriic eating disorder..which has improved but she is left with OCB's (ED's evolve into OCB'S)....excessive complusive behaviors and excessive scheduling and planning of events, (something they can control)exercize, measuring of food amts before she eats...food pyramid as the guide for daily eating...etc

and WW says I'm OCB becasue I like to schedule making love...well I schedule it so we can plan accordingly.. .becasue she never initaites..and if i dont ask...it will never happen

after some talk...she said "ok lets just do it and get it over with"...well talk about a mood killer... i decided to decline.

She also told me she does not like to "do it" during the work week as she is too tired from the office" and i quickly said to her "do you want to go there and debate that topic...now think...DO YOU want to go there" and she backed off immediately... as WW and her AP would meet in hotels during the work week...or extend a conference an extra day to hookup. she knew where i was going to go if she opened that door...

so this is where we are now...she left for Europe early the following morning...and my head is spinning.....and my heart hurts very much ..and is heavy...

I am asking... waywards... especialy WW's any idea why she is or would possibly be acting this way? She has not contacted AP as his wife and i stay in occasional contact.

He (the AP) on the other hand, tossed my wife under the bus when he was confronted..and has done everything a "model" wayward should do in "R" to help his FS heal. AP read every book my WW refused to read and I sent all the books to his wife boy what a difference between the two.

any suggestions for me...

MC said WW is stubborn, selfish,a blame placer, rug sweeper and needed to "woman up" and own her behavoirs ...and WW didnt like having emotional sessions where she had to own her behavoirs...

WW said..we could fix all this on our own...

that and thats why MC was stopped..

we dont need MC we can do this on our own she said over and over...

WW did not read any books either...I had bought "Not Just Friends"-Shirely Glass for her, she read about 80 pages and stopped said she didnt like the book and would get all she needed from IC and MC. (but all that stopped 10 mos. ago)

I bought her "How to help yout Spouse Heal from your Affair" (takes 30 min to read cover to cover) and she openly admonished the book said she didnt like it.

She actully asked me why there are so many books on affairs that blame the unfaithful for the affair and no books on pre-affair marital conditions the spouse being responsible and causing the affair .

We do not talk about her "A" because according to her, it takes us backward, but I need to talk to heal and have waited and waited and waited. WW never gave me any information or details about her LTA, wouldnt talk at all....very little...everything I learned, I found out from my PI and her AP's wife, I did contact AP's wife and outed the "A" to AP's wife and together we monitored their every move until actual NC took place July 2012. lied about NC from April to July 2012. They "thought" they had went underground but we had every move they made covered.

My dad passed away 3 mos ago...WW has been the perfect wife during this very difficlut time...in fact she has been the perfect wife since we stopped MC with the exception of the "Bedroom"...and I cant live in marriage that's devoid of physical and emotional imtinacy..I think she may actually think being the perfrct hostess at parties, having the perfect dinner on the table each night and doing all the social things properly actually make up for what is not happening in the bedroom and emotionally.

I need that eomtional and physical connection that she is withholding.

This must be why everyone says on SI that it takes 3-5 yrs for "R"...and the rollercoaster ride has its ups and downs...just stick in there...and i am...but hurting badly today

BS- me 59

WS-her 57

LTA--7 yrs. PA&EA with former boss (possibly 10 yrs.?)

1 Daughter 24 - reformed eating disorder left with excessive OCB

Dday- March 2012

Confrontation day-Late April 2012

Married 25 yrs.

I did contact AP's faithful wife and advised her of everything

Status: in "R" and "R" is a long road

(edited for spelling)

[This message edited by hurtsobadinside at 4:01 PM, August 31st (Saturday)]

I'm not sure what a "perfect wife" is but I will say, it doesn't sound as if she's remorseful. My suggestion (as a BW) would be to implement some aspects of the 180.

I'm so sorry that she's holding back on the emotional and physical aspects.

Morhurt

thank you for your comments and advice.

What i meant about the "Perfect Wife" was hse has been the perfect housekeeper and the image she shows friends and family is what we all know as the perfect wife.

it stops there...as the "Bedroom" activities are not good and my needs not only are not being met, these activities of hers bring up "triggers " for me all the time.

BS- me 59

WS-her 58

LTA--7 yrs. PA&EA with former boss

1 Daughter 24 - reformed eating disorder left with excessive OCB

Dday- March 2012

Confrontation day- April 2012

Married 25 yrs.

I did contact AP's faithful wife and advised her of everything

Status: in "R" and its a rough road

Hurts....

Are you sitting down??? This description you gave above sound s EXACTLY how I used to react when my WH tried to make love to me.....I'm not kidding....now I never scheduled sex but everything else above that statement was me before my WH A. It is called avoidance, she is avoiding it for some reason and you better figure out what that reason is my friend.

In my case, I felt like sex was just for my husband. He enjoyed it and I got to never climax. I had a hard time climaxing and got quite frustrated that I was somehow different from everyone else. I became, as you called it, very ticklish, excessively and that was just an avoidance tactic.

For years I harboured resentment about unfulfilling sex with my H. I came up with every excuse in the book.....all the same excuses your wife uses. It wasn't until I entered IC did these things come to light. I have explored every reason for my strange reaction to my husbands sexual needs and thanks to my great IC, I no longer have one need for an excuse....sex is wonderful again and I couldn't be happier.

Something in her past or her present is making her this way. There is a reason but she is either Too embarrassed to tell you, doesn't want to tell you or has been behaving this way for so long it is now just a part of her.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 4:30 PM, August 31st (Saturday)]

hurtsobad:

I can feel the pain in your words. And as a Wayward, seeing the pain Betrayed's feel and struggle with is a very powerful motivating tool. You write:

I need that eomtional and physical connection that she is withholding.

And from what you describe, I feel you cannot get that until she decides to work on healing herself.

Gently, she sounds resentful that her fantasy affair world came crashing down. And her selfishness and blameshifting is a logical extension of that unwillingness to leave the affair. Her "bedroom behavior" is something, hidden from the view of those who see the "perfect wife facade", that she can poison and punish with...punish you. After all, you found her out and ruined her fantasy rainbow farting unicorn world.

Until she decides to get help, and admitting she needs help is the first step there, you are both stuck. Your quest for emotional and physical connection, and how that is such a beautiful part and reflection of a healthy marriage, is admirable. But right now it feels like that is a goal that you might have to let go of until your WW sees the light.

Others with more experience can chime in, but it sounds like she's stuck in an extended, thick fog. And you're paying the price. I'm sorry that this is what you're going through.

Do everything you can to stay healthy and strong, and don't lose hope. You' sound like a worthy, caring, good at heart person and husband. For that you have my respect.

JD

Softly here, but I think you are being WAY to easy on her. She has ripped your heart out and shattered your soul, but you are allowing her to call all of the shots.

You are appearing weak and that may be killing her sexual attraction for you. She probably is also mourning the lost relationship with her AP.

You need to start calling the shots. Number one, you get back into MC. Non-negotiable. You tell her that you are going to have to half-hour sessions each week where you and she talk about the affair. NON-negotioable.

If she balks on these, start a hard 180, see an attorney, let her know you have done so, and steel yourself for the possiblity of divorce. She is treating you terribly and is certainly not showing remorse for her actions and the pain that she has caused you.

You sound like a sweet, loyal, thoughtful, man, and you deserve better than this.

I'm a ww but my situation was different from your ww because I had no ea and it was quick so I could be way off base.

6 years is a long time for an a and from your story it sounds like she is still missing her ap and resenting you for ending her lta. I agree with everything said so far. Especially the 180. You can not fix her no matter how much you want to. I think it must be one of the hardest things as a Bh to realise you cant fix your ww. But until she becomes truly remorseful and willing to do what needs to be done to save the marriage, nothing will change.

[This message edited by Silentthoughts at 5:01 PM, August 31st (Saturday)]

Thank you TxsT, JD, ST, & K1968

TxsT, i think you may have hit something.. you said

"Something in her past or her present is making her this way. There is a reason but she is either Too embarrassed to tell you, doesn't want to tell you or has been behaving this way for so long it is now just a part of her.

She has said she is very embarassed, our MC said she doesnt want to feel the pain of what she did and how selfish that was and how much she hurt you. So she avoids it and works hard to keep all that bundled up inside.

I have tried to get her to open up, as she has all this in a "vault" inside. Our "M" is her 2nd, she cheated on her 1st H also and just went the "D" route (said he wasnt ther for her so her A was his fault) so whatever mal-adapted coping skills she set and created for herself, never got addressed in her 1st marriage and she brought that shit into our M (unknown to me of course)

TsxT..in another thread you said WS' may not want to address what they did to totally avoid the pain..I think my WW is one of them

The issue is...how do I get her to understand, our M is safe, she can allow herself to be vunerable with me...and lets get this all off her heavy heart and allow her to process it and get this over with..??

I also think deep down she is afraid...in some of our "Talks" when she gets mad for some reason (still unable to control her anger)she blurts out in a fit of anger "How do i know you just wont take off on me in a few months or next year"?

she could be holding back because she thinks ill bolt and doesnt want that pain or saw the pain on my face and body (i lost 35# in 5 wks on the infideltiy diet and this was before I confronted her)

when she blurts this out, I then calmly tell her I'm not going to do that, I told you Im in for the long haul here so lets get going and get all this addressed, fixed and work on all new better memories together.

She then always says ok but deep down she may be projecting onto me what she would do if roles were reversed, or not accept the my gift of "R" and belives no one can truly heal from something like this.

I dont know?? ..only offering ideas becasue she wont talk and we never got my quesitons on the "A" answered becasue she thinks they didnt need to be answered. maybe now after a year and a half she knows we need to talk about the "A" and its painful for her ..again i dont know?

selfish? stubborn?

MC told me it will take time to peel the onion on my WW as she has yrs and layers of self-protection in place so she doesnt hurt and feel the pain for her actions.

The more i read, the more i understand and more importantly see how broken she really is.

She asked me once if i could help her with all the books I've read...i told her "yes" i belive i can

so i worked on a paper that took about 3 weeks to build and write..writing, editing re-editing etc and to this day..everytime i bring the topic up to go over this paper of bullet points...she says "not now"....avoids digging into this

again...like in my IC session C told me WW is issue avoidant for one purpose of avoiding the pain. and when pressed, she retreats like a child that runs to their bedroom and pouts

time for WW to woman up the counselor would always tell me. and that was her job to help WW understand all that... but WW stopped it becasue "she didnt need it".

In the year and a half since confrontation when she does something that bothers me and i bring it up to discuss, its automatic she will try to topic change and I bring her back calmly to the question in asking "will you please answer my question" , she backs off

She is extremely apologetic all the time.

But this Bedroom emotional & physical imtimacy unavailablity and basically wierdness needs to be talked out and fixed.

Im a patient man, she knows that and knows i have given her way more patience than she would have ever given me had the roles been reversed.

BS- me 59

WS-her 57

LTA--7 yrs. PA&EA with former boss (possibly 10 yrs.?)

1 Daughter 24 - reformed eating disorder left with excessive OCB

Dday- March 2012

Confrontation day-Late April 2012

Married 25 yrs.

I did contact AP's faithful wife and advised her of everything

Status: in "R" and "R" is a long road

edited for spelling

[This message edited by hurtsobadinside at 8:29 AM, September 1st (Sunday)]

I would get back into MC asap. You guys need help with this.

In all honesty, I think she is not truly remorseful, but thinks she should be, so is trying to act like it. I think her head is still in the A. That's why she can be the "perfect wife" during the day (she never had that role with OM), but sex is a problem.

I hope I am wrong, but that's really what it looks like to me. Which in any case does not mean there is no hope. Enact a plan like the one kansas describes. She cannot avoid talking about this any longer or just go through the motions. She needs to become fully invested and her unwillingness to talk, read, or even be sensitive to your feelings shows that she's not.

Good luck and keep us posted...

You keep asking the same question:

- how do I get her to understand

- how do I fix

You are getting the answer:

- 180

- fix yourself, you cannot fix her

It's frustrating.

Your patience and kindness and willingness to hang in there for a partner who is manipulative, unremorseful, and imo, abusive is admirable -

yet, a foolish consistency. It is harming to you.

Just about the only chance you have to get your W to be attracted is to be attractive.

For anyone, but especially for a man, that means being strong about what you'll put up with. Boundaries.

You do not deserve the way she's been treating you.

Why are you allowing it?

Because you think you can fix her?

That's exactly why what you've been doing is not working.

Get strong.

You do not deserve this.

My response is very negative imo, I am not usually so negative, and I realize I could be way off in what I perceive in your posts and if I am then please disregard the following.

.how do I get her to understand, our M is safe, she can allow herself to be vunerable with me..

Just a thought (that could be wrong) but perhaps she DOES feel safe with you and that is why she can act so poorly and selfishly, she knows you are not going anywhere no matter how much she denies you or shuts you out.

she blurts out in a fit of anger "How do i know you just wont take off on me in a few months or next year"?

She MAY be fearful, but I wonder if perhaps she is not saying this out of fear, but is using these words to manipulate you to get you to back off, to offer up more "safety", etc. It is a good way to be able to keep on behaving poorly without having to worry about consequences of those actions ya know?

so i worked on a paper that took about 3 weeks to build and write.

three weeks you were busy with a "project" and not in her hair is how I see this. Perhaps she really does want help, but perhaps she is just good at keeping you on the hook.

Im a patient man, she knows that

Yes, she does. And perhaps she uses this to her advantage instead of being grateful, and thankful for your patience she utilizes it for her own purpose.

and knows i have given her way more patience than she would have ever given me had the roles been reversed.

Probably very true and something she may have a difficult time with, some cannot respect another who tolerates what they themselves would not.

I would suggest you read Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. I would also suggest you get into IC if you are not already. You cannot fix her as others have stated, but you can work on yourself. It is obvious you are not content with how your M is at this time, you try to be tolerant, patient, etc, but deep down you need more.

As to all her "we don't need MC and we can fix this ourselves, etc" talk, it is (IMO) again, manipulation. I would wonder if she has any true desire to work on this, I don't see it.

(said he wasnt ther for her so her A was his fault) ......She actully asked me why there are so many books on affairs that blame the unfaithful for the affair and no books on pre-affair marital conditions the spouse being responsible and causing the affair .

Just this alone speaks volumes imo.

There are so many things I could comment on still, but I will stop here. You have a long row to hoe here, seriously, I encourage you to get support for yourself, IC, a group if there are any in your area, etc.

I am sorry for your loss of your Father. Mine passed a few weeks ago.

Grace

GraceisGood

Thank you for your comments and advice. You said what i have been thinking for quite some time.

one thing you were off on was this:

three weeks you were busy with a "project" and not in her hair is how I see this. Perhaps she really does want help, but perhaps she is just good at keeping you on the hook.

I worked on this when she was not at home. It didnt take up any of "our" time together. She gets home each day between an hour to 90 minumtes after me and i would also work on this when she had an overnight which is about 1 night/week.

I think counseling is the answer because MC told me she developed some very bad FOO coping skills, which got worse after her 1st affiar and failed 1st marriage and she brought all that into our marriage (unknown to me) and developed/built upon it further.

So there are layers upon layers for her to work thru and "doing this on her own" without IC, might work if she was on amazon buying and reading help books voraciously and we talked and talked about what she learned and what she is or was feeling, but she isnt..

So Back to IC i agree is needed but SHE has to want to do this and i will have to insist. I need a good MC that specializes in Infidelity in the Chicago area...any recommendations from anyone??

again back to what the MC told me in IC, she is stubborn, selfish and refuses to "woman-up" and needs help peeling back the protective layers that absolve all her guilt and blame others.

plus one major issue i have to deal with is our daughter. OCB to the maxx...thank god were not dealing with the eating disorder issue any more but any disruption in our family will push our D over the top and thats from the counselor. Soem very recent Gret news for us has been the "return" of our D's period- only 2 mos. ago... major happiness for us as a family...with her ED, she has not had a period in over 5 yrs....now were back on track and i dont want anything to happen to our D

My heart weighs sooo heavily

this morning..

BS- me 59

WS-her 57

LTA--7 yrs. PA&EA with former boss (possibly 10 yrs.?)

1 Daughter 24 - reformed eating disorder left with excessive OCB

Dday- early March 2012

Confrontation day-Late April 2012

Married 25 yrs.

I did contact AP's faithful wife and advised her of everything

Status: in "R" and "R" has been a long long rocky road

edited for spelling

[This message edited by hurtsobadinside at 7:23 AM, September 2nd (Monday)]

WW here. I have to completely agree with kansas on this one. I am actually similar to what you explain in regards to lack of interest in Sex however mine goes way back pre A And due to self esteem issues. Post A I also struggle some as it is hard to look BH in the eyes. I also suck at initiating it. It's a work in progress and a matter of "becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable" I think you need to take a much more assertive approach as your situation is not healthy and she is demonstrating a lack of remorse or any initiative on helping you or herself to heal. I agree with the counseling as it sounds like she has many underlying issues that need resolution. Best of luck to you

((Hugs))

There is nothing wrong with you desiring more from your relationship. Everyone needs to love and be loved.

I am the BS, but I can tell you that the things you describe you WW doing are, in fact, delay tactics. She is avoiding. I would bet that she is not tired or overwhelmed with work. She also feels pressure because she knows she hasn't been responsive and she knows she is 'due'. She will make you feel bad about asking so you don't ask unless you are desperate. Then when you are desperate and you finally ask, she will use delay tactics. If nothing else works, she will give in, but she will leave her shirt on, maybe one leg in her pants still, missionary only because not much is required from a woman in that position, she will be ticklish, say something is hurting her, kiss you, but not passionately, want you to hurry up and be done and when you are finally done...somehow managing to squeeze out an O under those circumstances, she will roll over and go to sleep. All of these efforts are to put you off, close you off, shut you down. If you try to bring something up, she will make fun of you.

Hugs, Hurts. You are being so kind, trying to understand, trying to be patient and all the while, you are hurting.

A 7 yr affair is a long time. Her AP throwing her under the bus had to sting and badly. The illusion that was created for 7 yrs was shattered when he turned and walked away.

I see two reasons for what she is doing...

neither are good. Stop reading here if you don't want to be hurt.

Gently,

She is either still in contact with AP somehow. At work, secret phone, secret email, work email whatever.

OR

She is still in the fog and still reeling from her Ap throwing her under the bus. She may also blame you for blowing up her little facade and is angry and resentful toward you.

Whatever the reason, if she will not go to IC or MC, you can only work on you.

This quote is in my tagline.

"When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves."

Stop this crazy train. You deserve so much more. You deserve to cherished and loved.

Brokesmile

Thank you....

a few clarifcations

7 yr affair is a long time. Her AP throwing her under the bus had to sting and badly. The illusion that was created for 7 yrs was shattered when he turned and walked away.

WW doesnt know this...i got all the info from the AP's wife. He couldnt talk fast enough.

With information i had given AP's wife when i confronted my wife multiple times and specifically mentioned his name as AP, before i hired a PI, WW never told AP and he saw red when that came out and knew she lied to him also and maniplulated him too.

Both work for fierce comptetitor companies...and are VP level, if I outed this to theri respective HR depts both would lose their jobs.

She is either still in contact with AP somehow. At work, secret phone, secret email, work email whatever.

I dont think so as AP's wife and i stay in contact to assure NC and her "M" couldnt be better with H hurting signifigantly in self-loathing. AP's wife doesnt believe any contact has happened since my WW stopped all last july 2012.

either way..you bring up signifigant points...all of which my WW must first start to do the hard work she has postponed...we need to get this 10 ton elephant out of the room once and for all.

thank you again to all my SI friends

Hurt,

Read what jjct and grace wrote to you several times over.

Why do you feel a need to fix your wife? That is her job and you keep trying to do it.

I would insist that she goes back to IC (maybe a new one), and provide a copy of your first post of this thread directly to her IC.

Something is keeping her from being close to you. What you are describing is pretty common. Get back into counseling asap with or without her. She isn't able to be emotionally close to her H. Something is wrong.

She actually asked me why there are so many books on affairs that blame the unfaithful for the affair and no books on pre-affair marital conditions the spouse being responsible and causing the affair .

I feel like she's wayyyyyy off base on this.....and that says a ton. She's incorrect...there's an entire cottage industry devoted to having the "Best. Marriage. Evah.".....THOSE are the books dedicated to pre-A conditions in the marriage....and she could've turned to any number of those books in order to have said marriage.

But she didn't.

She chose to have an affair, which would seem to indicate that having a great marriage was NOT what she was really after, it was the search for outside validation.

A agree with everyone else here, though...she's rugsweeping HARD. Hold her accountable for it, but know that you cannot force her to do anything, or to look at things in a certain way. She still sounds super foggy to me, like a petulant child who got her favorite toy taken away and now she's *gonna hate you forever!!!*

It sounds like she could still be pining for her AP and she blames you for the A.

Thus,

She actully asked me why there are so many books on affairs that blame the unfaithful for the affair and no books on pre-affair marital conditions the spouse being responsible and causing the affair .

This could be her way of getting back you. As someone else said acting like the perfect wife to others and behind closed doors, not so much.

I'm Sorry